What a difference 5 years makes!!

[King Mapes]

WOW, WE WENT FROM BOTTOM FEEDER TO BOTTOM FEEDER. AND WE STILL HAVE ONE OF THE WORST PROSPECT POOLS IN THE LEAGUE. HOW THE **** DID THEY MANAGE TO DO THAT WHILE STILL BOTTOMING OUT YEAR AFTER YEAR? DID I MENTION WE'VE GOTTEN RID OF PICKS FOR YEARS TO COME?

**** this team. and instead of gunning for McDavid or Eichel they make some marginal improvements to boost us into 9th place

We haven't bottomed out, that's the problem..

Also they could be changing the way the lottery works..

 

[gamer1035]

We haven't bottomed out, that's the problem..

Also they could be changing the way the lottery works..

last time I checked within the past 5 years we did bottom out once (to get Boston Seguin). However I agree, we should trade all our crap and tank to assure last place this year. Pens openly admit to doing it to get Mario

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

We haven't bottomed out, that's the problem..

Also they could be changing the way the lottery works..

Its not even about tanking, its about building the team through the draft and having some sort of clue on asset management

LAK built through the draft. Chicago built through the draft. Boston built through the draft. Pittsburgh built through the draft. St.louis built through the draft. Tampa built through the draft.

The Leafs like take other team's leftovers by giving up draft picks

 

[Holymakinaw]

Its not even about tanking, its about building the team through the draft and having some sort of clue on asset management

LAK built through the draft. Chicago built through the draft. Boston built through the draft. Pittsburgh built through the draft. St.louis built through the draft. Tampa built through the draft.

The Leafs like take other team's leftovers by giving up draft picks

Uh......we have a 2nd overall pick in the lineup, two 5th overalls, a 7th overall and an we just drafted an 8th overall.

That won't do, huh? You just want DIFFERENT draft picks?

 

[Mess]

It's a weird situation.

Our current roster is legit leaps and bounds ahead of the 5 years ago roster.


But somehow we still suck. Call it a curse.

Problem being Leafs don't exist in a bubble and during this 6 year rebuild time of theirs all the other NHL teams have also been active changing rosters also through drafting, trading and UFA signings, and the landscape is changing dynamically.

It only looks like improvement when you compare the team to itself before verses after.

TB added Stamkos and Hedman and Ben Bishop and Drouin etc and Colorado has added Duchene, ROR, Landeskog and McKinnon etc and Montreal added PK Subban, Max Pac, Galchenyuk, Gallagher etc. etc. All these teams have a before and after also only that their moves compared to Leafs rebuild has seen them propelled on to the playoffs and gotten better over time as a result of adding talent.

Leafs have more talent only same old results year after year, because the ability to assemble and build a successful team is what Leafs are missing from the equation. There seems to be this misconception that just because you have improved internally it guarantees you success.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Uh......we have a 2nd overall pick in the lineup, two 5th overalls, a 7th overall and an we just drafted an 8th overall.

That won't do, huh? You just want DIFFERENT draft picks?

I am talking about building through the draft.

Last 5 Years

Toronto Maple Leafs: 33 Draft Picks
Chicago Blackhawks: 46 Draft Picks

Shouldn't the team that is sucking be the ones building through the draft and not the ones making a deep playoff run year after year? Weird.

 

[Atomos2]

What difference? We sucked back then. We suck now.

 

[TMLegend]

I am talking about building through the draft.

Last 5 Years

Toronto Maple Leafs: 33 Draft Picks
Chicago Blackhawks: 46 Draft Picks

Shouldn't the team that is sucking be the ones building through the draft and not the ones making a deep playoff run year after year? Weird.

"Draft Schmaft" at it's finest. Posters on this board have the same mentality too.

Quite sad really.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

"Draft Schmaft" at it's finest. Posters on this board have the same mentality too.

Quite sad really.

My favorite excuse for not building through the draft:

Action: Trade 2nd round pick for Dave Bolland

Reaction: The probability a 2nd round pick becoming the next Dave Bolland is low therefore, we won this trade. Anytime you can get a quality player for a draft pick, who may or may not work out (pretty much a crapshoot), you have to do it!

 

[Holymakinaw]

I am talking about building through the draft.

Last 5 Years

Toronto Maple Leafs: 33 Draft Picks
Chicago Blackhawks: 46 Draft Picks

Shouldn't the team that is sucking be the ones building through the draft and not the ones making a deep playoff run year after year? Weird.

Yeah, cuz that's the ONLY way to do things.

Last 5 years:
LA Kings: 33 draft picks
Montreal Canadiens: 33 picks
Columbus Blue Jackets: 35 picks
Boston Bruins: 31 picks
New York Rangers: 28 picks
Ottawa Senators: 32 draft picks
Edmonton Oilers: 43 draft picks
Florida Panthers: 42 draft picks
Buffalo Sabres: 43 draft picks
Detroit Red Wings: 37 draft picks
Pittsburgh Penguins: 31 picks

See a pattern here? No?

That's because there isn't one.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Yeah, cuz that's the ONLY way to do things.

Last 5 years:
LA Kings: 33 draft picks
Montreal Canadiens: 33 picks
Columbus Blue Jackets: 35 picks
Boston Bruins: 31 picks
New York Rangers: 28 picks
Ottawa Senators: 32 draft picks
Edmonton Oilers: 43 draft picks
Florida Panthers: 42 draft picks
Buffalo Sabres: 43 draft picks
Detroit Red Wings: 37 draft picks
Pittsburgh Penguins: 31 picks

See a pattern here? No?

That's because there isn't one.

Name me one current Cup contender that didn't build their core through the draft?

 

[Gamble9]

Are we better and moving Is it good enough no they need to be better but the direction is moving up maybe not in the standings last year but the team was a really good team last year except the last 14 20 games

 

[TMLegend]

Yeah, cuz that's the ONLY way to do things.

Last 5 years:
LA Kings: 33 draft picks (2x stanley cup winner)
Montreal Canadiens: 33 picks(decent-good team annually)
Columbus Blue Jackets: 35 picks(Mediocre. Have turned corner it seems though)
Boston Bruins: 31 picks(Perennial contender, 1X stanley cup winner)
New York Rangers: 28 picks(Decent-good team annually)
Ottawa Senators: 32 draft picks(Decent team, entering a rebuild)
Edmonton Oilers: 43 draft picks(Terrible, surplus of picks, as they should)
Florida Panthers: 42 draft picks(Terrible, surplus of picks, as they should)
Detroit Red Wings: 37 draft picksb(Contender early years, slowing down)
Pittsburgh Penguins: 31 picks(Perennial contender, 1X Cup winner)

See a pattern here? No? That's because there isn't one.

Contending teams often trade away picks in an attempt to put them over the top in quest of a Stanley Cup. Teams that aren't contenders in any shape or form, should be stockpiling picks in attempt to address organizational weaknesses and acquiring cost controllable assets for long term building.

Florida and Edmonton might be awful teams right now, but they're rebuilding properly and doing it right in terms of stockpiling picks instead of using them in an attempt to squeak into the playoffs.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Name me one current Cup contender that didn't build their core through the draft?

You yourself said that the we didn't build through the draft because we only drafted 33 times, as opposed to Chicago's 43 times over the last 5 years.

Well Boston only drafted 31 times over that same time-frame and LA 33 times.....same as us.

But they built through the draft, and we're not building through drafting AND trading? I think maybe they just started before us, no?

They also have their Richards and Carters and their Chara and Rasks, don't they? Pretty KEY guys, I'd say.

And we have our Riellys and Kadris and Nylanders. And Kessel. And JVR.

Takes time. We started later.

And now we're on year five.

 

[Stephen]

- They had the 2nd Overall Pick, 5th Overall pick, 7th Overall Pick, 8th Overall Pick, 9th Overall Pick, 21st Overall Pick, etc.... Of course we had assets incoming, its how you use them. Its team clearly has no idea how to use their assets

Evaluate the team now, and evaluate the team in 2009 and its abundantly clear that we are in a much worse position now than we were in 2009

On the bright side, we likely still have some high top ten picks down the chute to enjoy.

 

[Peasy]

You yourself said that the we didn't build through the draft because we only drafted 33 times, as opposed to Chicago's 43 times over the last 5 years.

Well Boston only drafted 31 times over that same time-frame and LA 33 times.....same as us.

But they built through the draft, and we're not building through drafting AND trading? I think maybe they just started before us, no?

They also have their Richards and Carters and their Chara and Rasks, don't they? Pretty KEY guys, I'd say.

And we have our Riellys and Kadris and Nylanders. And Kessel. And JVR.

Takes time. We started later.

And now we're on year five.

You forgot to mention their main contributors

Players like Quick, Kopitar, Doughty are WAY more important than Richards and Carter.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

You yourself said that the we didn't build through the draft because we only drafted 33 times, as opposed to Chicago's 43 times over the last 5 years.

Well Boston only drafted 31 times over that same time-frame and LA 33 times.....same as us.

But they built through the draft, and we're not building through drafting AND trading? I think maybe they just started before us, no?

They also have their Richards and Carters and their Chara and Rasks, don't they? Pretty KEY guys, I'd say.

And we have our Riellys and Kadris and Nylanders. And Kessel. And JVR.

Takes time. We started later.

And now we're on year five.

Once you become perennial cup contenders, you can afford to trade draft picks for rentals because you have an established core on the team. That's why its called rebuilding through the draft. Cup contenders are done rebuilding. I was just surprised that Chicago continues to acquire draft picks even when they don't have to.

The Leafs like to trade draft picks when they are nowhere near Cup contention

And Please don't tell me we are cup contenders because I know you want to

LAK = Kopitar, Doughty, Voynov, Quick, Brown, Toffoli, Clifford, Martinez, King
Hawks = Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Saad, Shaw, Hjalmarsson
Leafs = Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Komarov

Which organization is not committed to building their core through the draft?

 

[Holymakinaw]

You forgot to mention their main contributors

Players like Quick, Kopitar, Doughty are WAY more important than Richards and Carter.

LOL. Uh-huh. Carter and Richards and Williams and Gaborik had almost NOTHING to do with LA's Cups.

That's right.

It's only because they "built through the draft".

Predictable.

 

[Holymakinaw]

LAK = Kopitar, Doughty, Voynov, Quick, Brown, Toffoli, Clifford, Martinez, King
Hawks = Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Saad, Shaw, Hjalmarsson

Leafs = Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Komarov, Bozak, Frattin, Granberg, Leivo, and soon......Nylander?

(yer so predictible...)

 

[Peasy]

Leafs = Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Komarov, Bozak, Frattin, Granberg, Leivo, and soon......Nylander?

(yer so predictible...)

Youre really telling me those players are close to the ones he mentioned above?

Kadri will never be close to being nominated for a Selke trophy in his career.
We HOPE Rielly could be a Norris candidate in the future.
You're throwing in a back up goalie who won't even be a starter?
Komarov has played like 50 NHL games...
Bozak wasn't drafted by us, but again hes no Kopitar or Toews.
Frattin hasn't shown much
Then you say two players that have only played in the AHL.

Just lol...

I'll be sure to bring up these threads when the Leafs fail to make the playoffs again.

 

[Trapper]

LOL. Uh-huh. Carter and Richards and Williams and Gaborik had almost NOTHING to do with LA's Cups.

That's right.

It's only because they "built through the draft".

Predictable.

We have achieved success with neither.
That's fine to believe it will all work out if you like. A lot of fans have hoped it will all work out for the past 30 years so you can believe a little longer.
You have have shown that we have drafted some talent and decent pieces.
However despite your over the top optimism, beyond an individual success you cannot show me team success to date. And you can't. Only the Maple Leafs can show me that. No amount of your clever wit, your lucky I'm here to help, your condescending grass is greener or predictable saying can make this a better team if they are not. They have to show it. I'm ready to see anytime now.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Predictable. How do we know the current group of prospects are better? LOL.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Leafs = Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Komarov, Bozak, Frattin, Granberg, Leivo, and soon......Nylander?

(yer so predictible...)

You mention players who are such a huge part of the current core that they haven't even played half a season for the team yet

And Frattin, he was so vital to our core that we traded him away

BTW You missed David Broll, Greg McKegg, Jamie Devane, and Korbainian Holzer

Whatever helps your angle, right?

 

[TMLegend]

Predictable. How do we know the current group of prospects are better? LOL.

Because we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet.

 

[Holymakinaw]

We have achieved success with neither.
That's fine to believe it will all work out if you like. A lot of fans have hoped it will all work out for the past 30 years so you can believe a little longer.
You have have shown that we have drafted some talent and decent pieces.
However despite your over the top optimism, beyond an individual success you cannot show me team success to date. And you can't. Only the Maple Leafs can show me that. No amount of your clever wit, your lucky I'm here to help, your condescending grass is greener or predictable saying can make this a better team if they are not. They have to show it. I'm ready to see anytime now.

Uh.......it's only year 5. Most rebuilds take 3, 4, 5, 6 years........Who says that every team is SUPPOSED to win a Cup within 5 years of their rebuild? We've made the playoffs once already in that timeframe, and they might very again next year. We're getting there, I say. Now we've added Nylander and we might be a lot closer.

We've improved the main roster and the farm as well. That's all I said in this OP. So many have "piled on" that I realize it's hard to keep focus on that.