What a difference 5 years makes!!

[Milan90]

It's a weird situation.

Our current roster is legit leaps and bounds ahead of the 5 years ago roster.


But somehow we still suck. Call it a curse.

I'd call it playing skilled players in a system that doesn't suit them.

 

[gamer1035]

Uh.......it's only year 5. Most rebuilds take 3, 4, 5, 6 years........Who says that every team is SUPPOSED to win a Cup within 5 years of their rebuild? We've made the playoffs once already in that timeframe, and they might very again next year. We're getting there, I say. Now we've added Nylander and we might be a lot closer.

We've improved the main roster and the farm as well. That's all I said in this OP. So many have "piled on" that I realize it's hard to keep focus on that.

the only valid things this guy has said in any post he has made in this thread are the last two words of each of his posts.

sadly he is saying it sarcastically (I think)

 

[hotpaws]

I'd call it playing skilled players in a system that doesn't suit them.

there's no system that'll win with soft one dimensional players

 

[TMLegend]

Because they haven't been "proven right" at all. That's a load of crap. They can't wait more than a year for a rebuild to bear fruit and they freak out and slam EVERY move the team makes and every positive comment any fan makes. They're little children. That's not being "proven right" at all.

LEAFS SUCK.

We don't know that. Do you know why? It's because we haven't even tried to rebuild. Just retool, and swap out depth players annually when it's the core that's the problem with this club.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Uh.......it's only year 5. Most rebuilds take 3, 4, 5, 6 years........Who says that every team is SUPPOSED to win a Cup within 5 years of their rebuild? We've made the playoffs once already in that timeframe, and they might very again next year. We're getting there, I say. Now we've added Nylander and we might be a lot closer.

We've improved the main roster and the farm as well. That's all I said in this OP. So many have "piled on" that I realize it's hard to keep focus on that.

What rebuild are you talking about? Because we clearly aren't building through the draft.

I wont criticize the Lebda, Connolly moves because I understand they were short-term

Was signing Grabovski to a 5 year contract and then buying him out a year later part of the rebuild?

Was signing JML to a 4 year contract, trading him for Gleason and then dumping Gleason part of the rebuild?

Was signing Clarkson to a 7 year contract part of the rebuild?

Komisarek? Beauchemin? Colby Armstrong? All part of the 5 year plan?

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

We don't know that. Do you know why? It's because we haven't even tried to rebuild. Just retool, and swap out depth players annually when it's the core that's the problem with this club.

I don't know how you can bear fruits when you trade all your seeds away ^ And I am asking Mak about that

When we talk about fruits with the Leafs, we usually go for the fruits that other teams have grown themselves and had time to examined those fruits through their development and value them

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Leafs = Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Komarov, Bozak, Frattin, Granberg, Leivo, and soon......Nylander?

(yer so predictible...)

Reilly & Bozak are good.

Kadri is good offensively but needs improvement to be a 2-way player.

The rest (exclude Nylander) are not that good or its too early to tell and are not sure fire elite prospects.

Not very impressive really.

 

[sommervr]

I don't know about you but OP convinced me. PLAN THE PARADE!

This is going to work out better than your Corsi Cup victory post right?

 

[The Apologist]

Was signing Grabovski to a 5 year contract and then buying him out a year later part of the rebuild?

You understand that it was two different gms right? It's not like the same guy that signed him bought him out.

Was signing JML to a 4 year contract, trading him for Gleason and then dumping Gleason part of the rebuild?

Again, the guy that signed him is not the guy that traded him away. Nonis gambled on Gleason, and apparently wasn't happy with the results.

Was signing Clarkson to a 7 year contract part of the rebuild?

When combined with draft picks, it very we'll could be, that being said I'm not sure where Nonis is going.

Komisarek? Beauchemin? Colby Armstrong? All part of the 5 year plan?

Who's plan? We've had two Gms in that span, sounds like you missed that point.

 

[The Apologist]

I don't know how you can bear fruits when you trade all your seeds away ^ And I am asking Mak about that

When we talk about fruits with the Leafs, we usually go for the fruits that other teams have grown themselves and had time to examined those fruits through their development and value them

But we didn't, we planted 33 of them, which seems to be fairly close to what most NHL teams do.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

You understand that it was two different gms right? It's not like the same guy that signed him bought him out.


Again, the guy that signed him is not the guy that traded him away. Nonis gambled on Gleason, and apparently wasn't happy with the results.


When combined with draft picks, it very we'll could be, that being said I'm not sure where Nonis is going.


Who's plan? We've had two Gms in that span, sounds like you missed that point.

Guess you aren't on the same page as Mak is

He says we are on Year 5 of the rebuild. I am just evaluating some of the moves from the beginning of 2009 (the rebuild) as Mak so clearly stated

 

[TMLegend]

But we didn't, we planted 33 of them, which seems to be fairly close to what most NHL teams do.

33 is below average for a team of this calibre.

 

[The Apologist]

The team was a piece of s***. That's why they were losing. When you have worst possession numbers than Buffalo you know you're team is utter crap. I'm sure we'll fire Carlyle and the new coach will come in a fix everything though? Just like when we fired Wilson..

Oh wait..

When they had great possession numbers they sucked, why was that?

Why didn't the likes of Mikhail Grabovski carry this team to the promised land?

No, the problem here is that the 'realists' can't actually decide what they want and don't have the patience to ride it out either way.

We ARE rebuilding. There is no set way to build a team or everyone would do it.

Do you know what the LA Kings, Boston Bruins, Pittsburgh Penguins and Chicago Blackhawks have in common?

They all play hockey, that's about it.

 

[The Apologist]

33 is below average for a team of this calibre.

What calibre exactly? And what's the average?

 

[TMLegend]

When they had great possession numbers they sucked, why was that?

Bad goaltending, and lack of talent in general.

Why didn't the likes of Mikhail Grabovski carry this team to the promised land?

He's one player. He was the biggest warrior this team has had in years and got ran out of town. No room for heart and soul types in Leafland.

No, the problem here is that the 'realists' can't actually decide what they want and don't have the patience to ride it out either way.

That's managements M.O, not mine.

We ARE rebuilding. There is no set way to build a team or everyone would do it.

Do you know what the LA Kings, Boston Bruins, Pittsburgh Penguins and Chicago Blackhawks have in common?

They all play hockey, that's about it.

You can't rebuild and trade picks like candy. It doesn't work like that. Picks = Cheap, controllable assets. Something a rebuilding club needs plenty of.

 

[The Apologist]

Guess you aren't on the same page as Mak is

He says we are on Year 5 of the rebuild. I am just evaluating some of the moves from the beginning of 2009 (the rebuild) as Mak so clearly stated

Which we very much are, however again there were two gms involved. One felt certain players belonged. His replacement didn't.

Doesn't changed the general plan.

Tell me, what was the Leafs last playoff acquisition? You know, the veterans and stars and expiring UFAs you pick up at the deadline for the playoff push?

 

[Legion34]

Lol yes, our 26 year old ppg annually top ten in scoring guaranteed 30 goal winger isn't something to be positive about.

But mackinaw is the troll.... Right....

The talent they have acquired is better no doubt, but the team fails every year with composition. They run 5 offensive defence men and the wingers collapse from the point. They never play defence and never make anyone pay the price. Somehow I think they have made themselves worse this year.

From 2006 first rounders taking toronto s picks as per standings.

2006: tlusty
2007 none
2008 schenn
2009 Kadri
2010 seguin(big leap but fine)
2011 Hamilton

Trade route first rounders

2006 Kessel Bernie's
2007 jvr
2008 gardiner
2009 Kadri paradis
2010 none
2011 Percy and Biggs

That's a much better list.

Where the leafs have fallen down in my opinion is that they haven't got assets for departing players. They resigned liles and grabo when they could have traded them for picks. They were never part of the core.

They let kulemin Raymond MacArthur go. That's probably 7 to 8 mid rounders there. They new kulemin was gone and kept him. Why not get a 2 an 5 th for him.

I don't like how nonis seems to add picks in even trades. That is where the leafs are hurting their rebuild. I am for getting proven players that are young and under contract. I don't like losing something for nothing.

 

[The Apologist]

Bad goaltending, and lack of talent in general.



He's one player. He was the biggest warrior this team has had in years and got ran out of town. No room heart and soul types in Leafland.



That's managements M.O, not mine.



You can't rebuild and trade picks like candy. It doesn't work like that. Picks = Cheap, controllable assets. Something a rebuilding club needs plenty of.

Grabovski was Mia in the best season we've had in ten years and then Mia again in the playoffs.

And who is trading picks like candy again? The Leafs seem to be drafting right around the average. A rebuilding club needs more than just a bunch of rookies in order to develop, which is why the oilers will suck for all eternity.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Which we very much are, however again there were two gms involved. One felt certain players belonged. His replacement didn't.

Doesn't changed the general plan.

Tell me, what was the Leafs last playoff acquisition? You know, the veterans and stars and expiring UFAs you pick up at the deadline for the playoff push?

So the general plan hasn't changed. So if the plan hasn't changed, you must be able to explain the Komisarek, Clarkson, Armstrong, JML, Grabovski, etc...signings and how it coincides with the long-term plan of this organization

The answer to your last question is Ryan O Bryne I believe. Explain where you are going with this

 

[The Apologist]

The talent they have acquired is better no doubt, but the team fails every year with composition. They run 5 offensive defence men and the wingers collapse from the point. They never play defence and never make anyone pay the price. Somehow I think they have made themselves worse this year.

From 2006 first rounders taking toronto s picks as per standings.

2006: tlusty
2007 none
2008 schenn
2009 Kadri
2010 seguin(big leap but fine)
2011 Hamilton

Trade route first rounders

2006 Kessel Bernie's
2007 jvr
2008 gardiner
2009 Kadri paradis
2010 none
2011 Percy and Biggs

That's a much better list.

Where the leafs have fallen down in my opinion is that they haven't got assets for departing players. They resigned liles and grabo when they could have traded them for picks. They were never part of the core.

They let kulemin Raymond MacArthur go. That's probably 7 to 8 mid rounders there. They new kulemin was gone and kept him. Why not get a 2 an 5 th for him.

I don't like how nonis seems to add picks in even trades. That is where the leafs are hurting their rebuild. I am for getting proven players that are young and under contract. I don't like losing something for nothing.

THANK YOU GOOD LORD for an intelligent well thought out post.

I agree we can't keep losing players for nothing. In the same vein as not picking up rentals at the deadline, if we determine that we truly are rebuilding, we need to shop our assets. It's hard to do in a city like this however, especially while in the thick of a playoff race.
Agree on Nonis' odd trading strategy. I've never been a fan of his and truly believe he will destroy what little Burke was able to do.

That being said, this team is younger, has much more potential, and (assuming we don't all go mad again) much more developed chemistry than anything we had at the start of the decade.

 

[Mess]

This thread has become nothing but a flame fest and more OT posts then good ones.

/Closed