Western Conference NHL teams consider major AHL overhaul

[AdmiralsFan24]

Tawnos:

if Key is not suitable for one league, ie NHL, it will not for any other league, directly or indirectly.....

Please, we're talking minor league hockey here. If Broome County Veterans Memorial Arena and Glens Falls Civic Center are suitable for AHL teams Key Arena sure as hell is.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Please, we're talking minor league hockey here. If Broome County Veterans Memorial Arena and Glens Falls Civic Center are suitable for AHL teams Key Arena sure as hell is.

NO, it is not, nor ever, AF24, why did the Sonics move out of the building while it was retrofitted/renovated in 1979.....

Key Arena is a National Historic Site, as is Seattle Center, of which it is a part of, so not only do you have no help from the State in retrofitting or renovating the arena, it has to be in accordance w/ those regulations as well....

 

[LadyStanley]

AHL teams cannot go into Major Junior cities, so keep that mind. Seattle and Portland are out.

Why?

How about Tacoma then? There are other cities in Oregon as well.

Regarding locations in California....

Bakersfield, Stockton and Ontario currently have ECHL teams, with San Francisco (Brisbane/SSF more specifically) getting an ECHL team next season.

I can't see the three NHL teams pushing those ECHL franchises "out of business" by bringing an AHL team to one of those venues.

Oakland (Coliseum Arena) has hosted Sharks preseason games, more than a decade ago, but IIRC, the ice plant would need a lot of work. The Sharks do run the local Oakland Ice skating/ice facility, so this could be a practice location/promotional venue for the team.

Sacramento is trying to build a new (NBA/multi-use) arena, and unless some progress toward that is made before the summer, the Kings may be moving. (And the ice plant needs some significant overhauls. Disney on Ice has to bring their own plant in to do shows there.) Unclear what future of arena will be without anchor tenant like Kings, and whether in this economy there's any possibility of a new multi-use facility being built (especially with public monies).

San Diego has a venue (formerly hosted ECHL team there), some upgrades would be needed. But moreso a better working agreement with arena owner/manager.

Long Beach used to host an ECHL team. Probably some upgrades needed (real close to LA and Anaheim, relatively).

Fresno has 1-2 venues that the former ECHL team used.

NorCal potential venues: Oakland, Sacramento.
SoCal: Long Beach, San Diego
Central California: Fresno

 

[kdb209]

NO, it is not, nor ever, AF24, why did the Sonics move out of the building while it was retrofitted/renovated in 1979.....

Key Arena is a National Historic Site, as is Seattle Center, of which it is a part of, so not only do you have no help from the State in retrofitting or renovating the arena, it has to be in accordance w/ those regulations as well....

No retrofit needed.

The problem with the Key Arena was the same problem as with AWA - you could fit in an ice sheet fine, but you lost some lower bowl seating and had huge swaths of obstructed view seats in the upper bowl.

Is that a problem for an NHL team which needs 16+K - yes.

Is that a problem for an AHL team which needs 4-8K - nope.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Why?

How about Tacoma then? There are other cities in Oregon as well.

Regarding locations in California....

Bakersfield, Stockton and Ontario currently have ECHL teams, with San Francisco (Brisbane/SSF more specifically) getting an ECHL team next season.

I can't see the three NHL teams pushing those ECHL franchises "out of business" by bringing an AHL team to one of those venues.

Oakland (Coliseum Arena) has hosted Sharks preseason games, more than a decade ago, but IIRC, the ice plant would need a lot of work. The Sharks do run the local Oakland Ice skating/ice facility, so this could be a practice location/promotional venue for the team.

Sacramento is trying to build a new (NBA/multi-use) arena, and unless some progress toward that is made before the summer, the Kings may be moving. (And the ice plant needs some significant overhauls. Disney on Ice has to bring their own plant in to do shows there.) Unclear what future of arena will be without anchor tenant like Kings, and whether in this economy there's any possibility of a new multi-use facility being built (especially with public monies).

San Diego has a venue (formerly hosted ECHL team there), some upgrades would be needed. But moreso a better working agreement with arena owner/manager.

Long Beach used to host an ECHL team. Probably some upgrades needed (real close to LA and Anaheim, relatively).

Fresno has 1-2 venues that the former ECHL team used.

NorCal potential venues: Oakland, Sacramento.
SoCal: Long Beach, San Diego
Central California: Fresno

doesn't Fresno have Seiland Arena and the NAHL Monsters, though, LS.... after the ECHL Falcons collapsed?

 

[IU Hawks fan]

No retrofit needed.

The problem with the Key Arena was the same problem as with AWA - you could fit in an ice sheet fine, but you lost some lower bowl seating and had huge swaths of obstructed view seats in the upper bowl.

Is that a problem for an NHL team which needs 16+K - yes.

Is that a problem for an AHL team which needs 4-8K - nope.

Conseco Fieldhouse is the same way. Indy doesn't solve any west coast problems, though. Also, is a terrible pro sports town anyways.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Conseco Fieldhouse is the same way. Indy doesn't solve any west coast problems, though. Also, is a terrible pro sports town anyways.

So is AT&T Center in San Antonio, which has an AHL team. It's a complete non issue.

 

[barneyg]

Not sure this goes here...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=379050

If this ever comes to fruition, I hope they'll at least have the decency of calling this new "conference" the Jason Demers Conference.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

So is AT&T Center in San Antonio, which has an AHL team. It's a complete non issue.

Yea, completely. Almost might benefit AHL teams in keeping fans closer together and improving the atmosphere.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

No retrofit needed.

The problem with the Key Arena was the same problem as with AWA - you could fit in an ice sheet fine, but you lost some lower bowl seating and had huge swaths of obstructed view seats in the upper bowl.

Is that a problem for an NHL team which needs 16+K - yes.

Is that a problem for an AHL team which needs 4-8K - nope.

West Valley City, UT, failed, kdb, why? it's a requirement, and these days, a necessity to be affiliated in a league that directly feeds the NHL, as our league is, see Glendale, and Arizona in general terms, how many minor hockey league franchises called Phoenix home in the various leagues (IHL/ECHL), remember the Road Runners in both of those leagues? Even Edmonton tried that for 2 years after coercion by Lyle Abraham in both Ricoh & Rexall, which is now OKC....

 

[kdb209]

So is AT&T Center in San Antonio, which has an AHL team. It's a complete non issue.

Yup. With only ~7K seats used out of 13.8K - with the rest curtained off. The seating and sight lines at Key actually look better than in San Antonio (at least going by the seating charts).

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Yup. With only ~7K seats used out of 13.8K - with the rest curtained off. The seating and sight lines at Key actually look better than in San Antonio (at least going by the seating charts).

if it's such a non-issue, then why isn't hockey there?

the difference in case, AF24, has forgotten is who owns the Rampage, the NBA franchise does, where's the NBA Franchise in Seattle? OKC

 

[kdb209]

West Valley City, UT, failed, kdb, why? it's a requirement, and these days, a necessity to be affiliated in a league that directly feeds the NHL, as our league is, see Glendale, and Arizona in general terms, how many minor hockey league franchises called Phoenix home in the various leagues (IHL/ECHL), remember the Road Runners in both of those leagues? Even Edmonton tried that for 2 years after coercion by Lyle Abraham in both Ricoh & Rexall, which is now OKC....

Which has what exactly to do with a hypothetical AHL team moving to Seattle? Besides changing the topic from your unsupported claim that Key needed retrofitting which was verboten as an historic site. Even Key Arena's own website shows hockey seating charts.

 

[Majik1987]

I posted something similar when I saw this over on the AHL board. I think this whole discussion with these Western teams is ridiculous. If the Western teams were really serious about wanting to get their minor league development squads closer home, many of them could have done it already. The Kings and Sharks own their affiliates, so if they wanted to pick up and move, they could. Edmonton owns their AHL franchise and choose to put it in OKC. Heck, it was dormant for years until they agreed to activate it and put it OKC. Calgary already has its team the farthest west of the AHL. They are another team that controlled where the franchise went, and they choose to put it in Abbotsford. None of these teams should be complaining about having their AHL affiliates so far from home. All of them could do it, none of them choose to do anything.

I'll agree that some of the other teams like Anaheim, Denver, and Vancouver have limited choices, but none of them have elected to buy a franchise when they have been up for sale. Everything is for sale if the price is right. If having the development squad close to home that important, then they should have stepped up and bought a franchise that they could then do with as they please.

The Jets, who own their affiliate, obviously didn't think it was that important to keep the minor league squad close to home; they sent it about as far away as they possibly could and still stay in Canada.

 

[jax00]

I think an AHL affiliate for the Avalanche in Colorado Springs makes perfect sense. World Arena in the Springs holds 8,000 for hockey and was opened in 1998. The Colorado College Tigers currently play there.

Then they could affiliate with the Colorado Eagles (current ECHL affiliate of the Jets) who play in Loveland/Fort Collins.

Then the Avs' two minor league affiliates would play roughly an hour and a half north and an hour an a half south of Denver, respectively. Affiliation with the Avalanche would definitely help both teams (though the Eagles do great without them) and having a more visible presence in Colorado Springs (metro 650,000) and Fort Collins (metro 300,000) would be a good thing for the Avalanche.

Great idea. Colorado Springs and the World Arena could easily support an AHL team.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Conseco Fieldhouse is the same way. Indy doesn't solve any west coast problems, though. Also, is a terrible pro sports town anyways.

Very true, but it's actually a really good minor league town. Honestly think that they (and Baltimore) would make great AHL towns, though again does nothing for Western teams that want a nearby farm team.

And I'm just going to go ahead and quote my two posts from the AHL board topic about this to convey my thoughts:

Makes sense, honestly.

I mean, the best argument for one is what happened to San Jose a year or two ago. Their goalie went down and they needed an emergency backup, so.... they picked up a random CIS netminder from British Columbia because their AHL team in Massachusetts was too far away for their backup to arrive in time.

You can't pretend that a team in that situation isn't inherently in a worse off position than, for instance, the Hawks, whose farm team's in Rockford, Illinois. Maybe not a new league, but honestly perfect sense to me for there to be more teams out west.

Never said it was critical, just said it made sense and, no matter how you look at it, Chicago has an advantage that San Jose doesn't if they need to bring up a player from the AHL in an emergency. I really don't know why teams further out west haven't brought teams to their area. Probably just because the cost of bringing over a couple guys a year to fill in from across the continent costs less than the cost of subsidizing a team to travel all over the continent. Probably would only work really well (and from a cost perspective) if most or all western teams brought over AHL teams in masse to reduce their travel costs.

*someone says something about making it like the ECHL where two conferences never play each other except in the championship*

And I'd be just fine with this. Pretty much what AAA baseball does with the IL and PCL.... except in this circumstance there'd be people that'd actually care about the championship.

 

[Tawnos]

Majik1987, you're right. I mean seriously, the fact that something hasn't happened means that it won't happen.

It also isn't possible at all that no one wants their team to be the only team out there. But if they all do it as a group, the negatives to having a cactus team are wiped out. That isn't possible at all.

 

[Tawnos]

Look, no one is arguing the fact that, without an affiliate, having a bunch of teams out West will never work. However, that really isn't the topic of conversation here... so I'm honestly not sure what your argument is at this point.

 

[Rocko604]

Why?

How about Tacoma then? There are other cities in Oregon as well.

Regarding locations in California....

Bakersfield, Stockton and Ontario currently have ECHL teams, with San Francisco (Brisbane/SSF more specifically) getting an ECHL team next season.

I can't see the three NHL teams pushing those ECHL franchises "out of business" by bringing an AHL team to one of those venues.

Oakland (Coliseum Arena) has hosted Sharks preseason games, more than a decade ago, but IIRC, the ice plant would need a lot of work. The Sharks do run the local Oakland Ice skating/ice facility, so this could be a practice location/promotional venue for the team.

Sacramento is trying to build a new (NBA/multi-use) arena, and unless some progress toward that is made before the summer, the Kings may be moving. (And the ice plant needs some significant overhauls. Disney on Ice has to bring their own plant in to do shows there.) Unclear what future of arena will be without anchor tenant like Kings, and whether in this economy there's any possibility of a new multi-use facility being built (especially with public monies).

San Diego has a venue (formerly hosted ECHL team there), some upgrades would be needed. But moreso a better working agreement with arena owner/manager.

Long Beach used to host an ECHL team. Probably some upgrades needed (real close to LA and Anaheim, relatively).

Fresno has 1-2 venues that the former ECHL team used.

NorCal potential venues: Oakland, Sacramento.
SoCal: Long Beach, San Diego
Central California: Fresno

Some agreement they have apparently. Territorial rights or something. The WHL went completely ******* when the AHL granted Abbotsford a franchise. They definitely can't share buildings, otherwise Victoria would still like be a target for the AHL.

Portland's Rose Garden and Memorial Coliseum are right across from one another, and the Winterhawks use both buildings. Eugene could be a second choice, but I'm not sure the arena on UofO campus even has an ice plant.

As for Seattle, the Key Arena is in between both the Everett Silvertips and Seattle Thunderbirds (in Kent, WA). Everett might not have as much of a complain as the Thunderbirds would, but I'm sure the WHL would have a say regardless.

Can't see how realistic Tacoma would be, with the Dome and all.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Look, no one is arguing the fact that, without an affiliate, having a bunch of teams out West will never work. However, that really isn't the topic of conversation here... so I'm honestly not sure what your argument is at this point.

the fact is AHL teams have a 1-1 Ratio, something that had been a league objective for years, which just happened to include the acquisition of the IHL, WHICH set the league up to achieve that ratio.....

this report surfaces from time to time, as recently as 2006, when Anaheim arrived in Portland, that discussions similar to this were first opined, but realistically, with the ever changing landscape of pro hockey being stable everywhere, something like this is not truly attainable....

No one wants to see a franchise fold/relocate/collapse, but that's reality, you only hope that those league, much like the ECHL did w/ Augusta, GA and Fresno failing within a week of each other is the exception, and not a pattern.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

the difference in case, AF24, has forgotten is who owns the Rampage, the NBA franchise does, where's the NBA Franchise in Seattle? OKC

Are you cherry-picking franchise comparisons now?

 

[Tawnos]

the fact is AHL teams have a 1-1 Ratio, something that had been a league objective for years, which just happened to include the acquisition of the IHL, WHICH set the league up to achieve that ratio.....

this report surfaces from time to time, as recently as 2006, when Anaheim arrived in Portland, that discussions similar to this were first opined, but realistically, with the ever changing landscape of pro hockey being stable everywhere, something like this is not truly attainable....

No one wants to see a franchise fold/relocate/collapse, but that's reality, you only hope that those league, much like the ECHL did w/ Augusta, GA and Fresno failing within a week of each other is the exception, and not a pattern.

There are certainly hurtles, no doubt. The point of the article is that they're discussing those hurtles.

Given the nature of the NHL teams relationship with their affiliates, this idea makes eminent sense. I won't argue the fact that there are obstacles that may be too difficult or not cost effective (in the beginning) to overcome. But strictly speaking from a hockey standpoint and from a business standpoint once you get beyond the startup cost, it makes more sense than not to explore this.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Are you cherry-picking franchise comparisons now?

there is no issue but saying Seattle can support anything not NHL, BUT at the same time, there's support for a Seattle NHL franchise, which is it.... a Seattle NHL franchise or a hockey franchise/league tht happens to be affiliated w/ the NHL IF THE OPTION IS Key Arena is deemed suitable or it's not, and the fallback option is the Tacoma Dome.

 

[Tawnos]

there is no issue but saying Seattle can support anything not NHL, BUT at the same time, there's support for a Seattle NHL franchise, which is it.... a Seattle NHL franchise or a hockey franchise/league tht happens to be affiliated w/ the NHL IF THE OPTION IS Key Arena is deemed suitable or it's not, and the fallback option is the Tacoma Dome.

I really don't think it's an either/or proposition to say that Seattle can support an AHL team while also saying that there is support for a future NHL one. I mean, the comparison really is that Quebec City can have an AHL franchise with it's existing infrastructure right now, while also saying that it can support an NHL franchise with new infrastructure in the future.

 

[LadyStanley]

doesn't Fresno have Seiland Arena and the NAHL Monsters, though, LS.... after the ECHL Falcons collapsed?

And the CSU Fresno arena.

(Don't follow the NAHL)