We miss Dupuis

[darkbrew*]

I know everyone loves to Rag on him, but i Really think the massive difference in Crosby this year has to at least partially be attributed to the loss of a great defensive player that knows how Crosby plays now, and has great chemistry with.

But hes just a third liner so Gibbons is pretty much his equal right.

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[Waffle Fries]

Dupuis was terrible this season. At one point he went a month without scoring a goal with Crosby on the ice.

And he is just a third liner. Always has been.

 

[The Big Dawg*]

no doubt we miss him when we're icing guys like Glass & Pyatt on the 3rd line at times. He could've been really good as a depth player right about now since that's where we're hurting the most.

 

[Fire Shero*]

If he hadn't gotten injured, he would still be holding back Crosby on the top line.

Gibbons, Dupuis, Megna, blah they are all the same. Have no business playing with Sid

 

[darkbrew*]

Dupuis was terrible this season. At one point he went a month without scoring a goal with Crosby on the ice.

And he is just a third liner. Always has been.

Why can't we just accept he was having a slow start/he was cold when he got injured? he was getting better the past two years.. He beat Ovy in ES goals last year.

Dupuis is light years ahead of Gibbons, unless we think Crosby has just been much worse this year all on his own?

 

[High Flying Birds]

Don't worry, he'll be back on Sid's line in October.

 

[IcedCapp]

I know everyone loves to Rag on him, but i Really think the massive difference in Crosby this year has to at least partially be attributed to the loss of a great defensive player that knows how Crosby plays now, and has great chemistry with.

But hes just a third liner so Gibbons is pretty much his equal right.

"I'm going to make a statement that not only goes against this board's majority opinion, but also against all logic and reason, because Dupuis played like crap by any standard.

And then I'm going to top it off with what I consider to be a smartass quip that fully conveys my dominance of the situation.

I'm awesome."

Does that about sum it up?

The Penguins don't miss Dupuis. In fact, if Dupuis had been the only injury and Bylsma had put every other player in the best-possible position to maximize their talents, the team would have been better than it was with Dupuis on the 1st line.

In reality, what the team missed was a legitimate NHL player to fill the void.

Pascal Dupuis IS a 3rd-liner, that Brandon Gibbons, an undersized AHL player couldn't come in over a small sample size and make the Penguins top line (and the line carrying the weight, as Malkin and Neal have both missed significant time this year) doesn't have much bearing Dupuis' ineffectiveness.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Why can't we just accept he was having a slow start/he was cold when he got injured? he was getting better the past two years.. He beat Ovy in ES goals last year.

Dupuis is light years ahead of Gibbons, unless we think Crosby has just been much worse this year all on his own?

He was cold for over a month? He couldn't even complete or make a pass, he was missing empty nets, fumbling pucks, and killing plays all by himself. Even Bylsma who wouldn't move Dupuis for Jarome freaking Iginla recognized he was playing like **** and moved him off Crosby's line.

He might have gotten better the past two years, but players typically don't get better at 34 years old. He started to decline, and it was fairly obvious.

I don't really care how Dupuis is compared to Gibbons. Dupuis is better, but that doesn't make him a top six player. Not even close. I know a lot of this board really likes Gibbons, but some could also argue he shouldn't really be in the NHL.

And how has Crosby been worse exactly? He's light years ahead of second place in the Art Ross race, while playing more games than he has in years, and not having a RW that has helped him at all for 75% of the season. He will be the only 100 point player and quite possibly the only 90 point player as well.

 

[IcedCapp]

Why can't we just accept he was having a slow start/he was cold when he got injured? he was getting better the past two years.. He beat Ovy in ES goals last year.

Dupuis is light years ahead of Gibbons, unless we think Crosby has just been much worse this year all on his own?

1) Pascal Dupuis is 34 years old. How many 34 year olds go from below average/average to GOOD! at the age of 34 naturally?

2) Last year's OMG LEGIT 1ST LINER STATS!!! came in

a) a shortened season
b) a season when Crosby, Kunitz and Dupuis spent a large chunk the off-season practicing together.

People underestimate just how much of a head start KCD had over the rest of the competition as far as timing and chemistry went. You could tell they started to slow down even before the Crosby injury

c) If you look at his playoff stats (which were good, no doubt), a good % of his points came away from Crosby. The argument that he produced like a top-6 player is fine, but it wasn't true with context. He produced like a top-6 player by scoring SHGs and during his bottom-6 shifts when - as many people here have suggested he would - he was able to take advantage of weaker defensive coverage.

When he was on the top line with Crosby, KCD was largely ineffective.

3) You are saying that Pascal Dupuis is a legit 1st liner by comparing him to a 26 year old udfa who weighs 150lbs soaking wet.

Do you not see how this totally undermines your entire point?

 

[Ogrezilla]

I would love to have Dupuis the 3rd liner. Not Dupuis the 1st liner.

 

[bradshaw06]

I know everyone loves to Rag on him, but i Really think the massive difference in Crosby this year has to at least partially be attributed to the loss of a great defensive player that knows how Crosby plays now, and has great chemistry with.

But hes just a third liner so Gibbons is pretty much his equal right.

Why can't we just accept he was having a slow start/he was cold when he got injured? he was getting better the past two years.. He beat Ovy in ES goals last year.

Dupuis is light years ahead of Gibbons, unless we think Crosby has just been much worse this year all on his own?

I am not sure i have seen anyone advocate for Gibbons to be on Crosby's wing?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I would love to have Dupuis the 3rd liner. Not Dupuis the 1st liner.

Bingo. Right now he would make us a deeper hockey club, he still doesn't belong on a top line in this league

 

[Fordy]

I do not miss Dupuis. I desperately hope he is not ready for the start of next season.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I do not miss Dupuis. I desperately hope he is not ready for the start of next season.

I just hope we have a new coach for next year so he plays on the third line.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I don't miss him, there's something satisfying about Bylsma's favourite toy being taken away from him. I'm just pissed that they failed to replace him with an NHL player for most of the season but he had no business being on the 1st line.

I miss Dupuis the 3rd liner but he was never going to be that now with Bylsma at the helm.

 

[wgknestrick]

I know everyone loves to Rag on him, but i Really think the massive difference in Crosby this year has to at least partially be attributed to the loss of a great defensive player that knows how Crosby plays now, and has great chemistry with.

But hes just a third liner so Gibbons is pretty much his equal right.

Exactly. Duppers is infinitely better than our worst forward getting ice time now (even with his regression this season). No doubt about it. Naysayers just don't know hockey. We miss him on the PK and at 5v5.

Even in this "down year" for him, he is still at #48 among forwards in pts/60min at 5v5. I don't blame him entirely for his regression, as Crosby has regressed too.


Notice how the delta between Crosby/Kunitz/Duppers is the same last year to this year. All 3 have gone down, but are still the same relative distance apart. Duppers is the Blue line

I also want a list of all the "3rd liners" who score 2pts/60min (5v5) or more. That probably won't even be a "list".

 

[Ogrezilla]

1. Dupuis coming back wouldn't bump the worst forward in the line-up out of the line-up. Adams and Glass are the worst forwards in the line-up, but we all know they aren't the guys who would sit for Dupuis.

2. If you think regular season even strength scoring is why people have a problem with Dupuis on Sid's wing, you simply don't pay attention to those who criticize Dupuis on Sid's wing.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I also want a list of all the "3rd liners" who score 2pts/60min (5v5) or more. That probably won't even be a "list".

Do you realize what is inherently wrong with this request? No other third liner has had the luxury of playing next to the best player in the world.

 

[madinsomniac]

Dupuis is a third liner who can spot fill in top line duty... much like Stempniak is. That doesn't mean he should be a legit top liner and paid as such. the guy is a career 9 to 10 % shooter and that's with the years he played with Crosby. He is a roleplayer being used over his talent level... what line did he play on when we last won the cup again?

He is a solid defensive player who can sporadically add some offense... moreover he is a speed guy who is getting old and just had a speed killing knee injury... he had better never ever see time on a top 2 line again... ever...

 

[IcedCapp]

Exactly. Duppers is infinitely better than our worst forward getting ice time now (even with his regression this season). No doubt about it. Naysayers just don't know hockey. We miss him on the PK and at 5v5.

Even in this "down year" for him, he is still at #48 among forwards in pts/60min at 5v5. I don't blame him entirely for his regression, as Crosby has regressed too.


Notice how the delta between Crosby/Kunitz/Duppers is the same last year to this year. All 3 have gone down, but are still the same relative distance apart. Duppers is the Blue line

I also want a list of all the "3rd liners" who score 2pts/60min (5v5) or more. That probably won't even be a "list".

1. You rely on advanced stats but fail to have any sort of context for them. I really wonder, and I don't mean this as any sort of insult: are you "book" smart?

2. The Penguins didn't replace Dupuis with a top-6 player. They didn't replace him with Bennett. They didn't replace him with Neal. They didn't replace him with Kesler. They replaced Dupuis with Vitale, Glass, and Gibbons.

I wonder what the 1st lines stats would look like if they had Stempniak there all year.

3. You add, "
I also want a list of all the "3rd liners" who score 2pts/60min (5v5) or more. That probably won't even be a "list".[/QUOTE]"

You do understand that Pascal Dupuis does not play 3rd line minutes or with 3rd liners, so asking for 3rd line players who put up the stats of players who play 1st line minutes and with 1st line players is ignorant, self-serving and a red herring?

 

[madinsomniac]

Let me also say this... a huge part of why my opinion of Bylsma turned so rapidly was his inane use of good roleplayers. I loved Dupuis.. I even wanted him moved up until we got a real winger ready to play that spot... but him being used over Iginla and Bennet was inexcusable... Much like orpik was one of my favorite pens of the last ten years, but his current use is making him a total joke that you have to dislike... I don't want to have these debates about guys I like when used properly... I don't want to dislike any Pens player...

 

[Shockmaster]

1. Dupuis coming back wouldn't bump the worst forward in the line-up out of the line-up. Adams and Glass are the worst forwards in the line-up, but we all know they aren't the guys who would sit for Dupuis.

2. If you think regular season even strength scoring is why people have a problem with Dupuis on Sid's wing, you simply don't pay attention to those who criticize Dupuis on Sid's wing.

That might not be the case if Bylsma isn't the head coach next year.

 

[madinsomniac]

1. You rely on advanced stats but fail to have any sort of context for them. I really wonder, and I don't mean this as any sort of insult: are you "book" smart?

2. The Penguins didn't replace Dupuis with a top-6 player. They didn't replace him with Bennett. They didn't replace him with Neal. They didn't replace him with Kesler. They replaced Dupuis with Vitale, Glass, and Gibbons.

I wonder what the 1st lines stats would look like if they had Stempniak there all year.

3. You add, "
I also want a list of all the "3rd liners" who score 2pts/60min (5v5) or more. That probably won't even be a "list".

"

You do understand that Pascal Dupuis does not play 3rd line minutes or with 3rd liners, so asking for 3rd line players who put up the stats of players who play 1st line minutes and with 1st line players is ignorant, self-serving and a red herring?[/QUOTE]


Tyler Kennedy, playing top line minutes, was a 20 goal scorer... that doesn't make him anything other than third liner who got premium minutes one season...

 

[tom_servo]

Dupuis on the third line makes him much more valuable to the Pens. His best season was without Crosby anyway.

I don't doubt that he's starting to decline, but you still can't assume his performance early this season was the new standard. People were riding Kunitz pretty hard the year before.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That might not be the case if Bylsma isn't the head coach next year.

well right, I'm talking about right now. In case its not clear, I am on the side that wants Dupuis back. Just not with Sid.