GDT: WCQF | G3 | “Welcome to Holloway” | Oilers @ Kings | 4.26.24 | 8:30PM | Staples Center | SN/CBC

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TopShelfGloveSide

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Dec 10, 2018
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It's quite simple, if the Oilers don't beat themselves they win. The fate of this series, and just about every game they play, rests almost entirely on the sticks and brains of the Oilers.
And the goalie needs to make some big saves. Mistakes will happen and they can’t all end up in the back of our net.
 
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Lacaar

Registered User
Jan 25, 2012
4,107
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@Lacaar

You raised some good questions in other thread that I couldn't respond to as thread is closed.

Regarding your concerns about McDrai EV play in the series it should be noted that both are reasonably good 200ft players and make good efforts across ice. Sometimes you're going to get outscored.

Thing is, I don't fault them as much for any imperfection in their games. They were raised here on a team that most of the time was paper thin support. For years if they weren't scoring most of the goals nobody was. This probably developed certain habits. They also never had a Kopitar type center or ROR or whoever to teach them the right way to play. Add some questionable and inconsistent and ever changing coaching to the mix and there hasn't been ideal modeling. Even getting Danault here as I wanted years ago could have helped transfer some knowledge and he's a rare individual that would be a voice in the room even among greats like McDrai.

As far Drai specifically theres been a gradual drop off in his EV game since he was MVP. Probably explained by age, mileage, and the amount of physical abuse he takes in seasons. We saw this with Mess here too. By 90, 91 Mess had become a player that due to pain and aging and just having played so much hockey he became a picking his spots player. Mess made passes that would have current fans concerned and they often enough ended up in goals the other way. Mess would also cheat shifts. If there were no openings or against a strong line his offensive jump would be limited to only certain shifts and opportunities. I'm afraid we're seeing that in this series. But frankly if his linemates or D on the great passes he makes were cashing at all there would be less concern.

@Lacaar

You raised some good questions in other thread that I couldn't respond to as thread is closed.

Regarding your concerns about McDrai EV play in the series it should be noted that both are reasonably good 200ft players and make good efforts across ice. Sometimes you're going to get outscored.

Thing is, I don't fault them as much for any imperfection in their games. They were raised here on a team that most of the time was paper thin support. For years if they weren't scoring most of the goals nobody was. This probably developed certain habits. They also never had a Kopitar type center or ROR or whoever to teach them the right way to play. Add some questionable and inconsistent and ever changing coaching to the mix and there hasn't been ideal modeling. Even getting Danault here as I wanted years ago could have helped transfer some knowledge and he's a rare individual that would be a voice in the room even among greats like McDrai.

As far Drai specifically theres been a gradual drop off in his EV game since he was MVP. Probably explained by age, mileage, and the amount of physical abuse he takes in seasons. We saw this with Mess here too. By 90, 91 Mess had become a player that due to pain and aging and just having played so much hockey he became a picking his spots player. Mess made passes that would have current fans concerned and they often enough ended up in goals the other way. Mess would also cheat shifts. If there were no openings or against a strong line his offensive jump would be limited to only certain shifts and opportunities. I'm afraid we're seeing that in this series. But frankly if his linemates or D on the great passes he makes were cashing at all there would be less concern.

@Lacaar

You raised some good questions in other thread that I couldn't respond to as thread is closed.

Regarding your concerns about McDrai EV play in the series it should be noted that both are reasonably good 200ft players and make good efforts across ice. Sometimes you're going to get outscored.

Thing is, I don't fault them as much for any imperfection in their games. They were raised here on a team that most of the time was paper thin support. For years if they weren't scoring most of the goals nobody was. This probably developed certain habits. They also never had a Kopitar type center or ROR or whoever to teach them the right way to play. Add some questionable and inconsistent and ever changing coaching to the mix and there hasn't been ideal modeling. Even getting Danault here as I wanted years ago could have helped transfer some knowledge and he's a rare individual that would be a voice in the room even among greats like McDrai.

As far Drai specifically theres been a gradual drop off in his EV game since he was MVP. Probably explained by age, mileage, and the amount of physical abuse he takes in seasons. We saw this with Mess here too. By 90, 91 Mess had become a player that due to pain and aging and just having played so much hockey he became a picking his spots player. Mess made passes that would have current fans concerned and they often enough ended up in goals the other way. Mess would also cheat shifts. If there were no openings or against a strong line his offensive jump would be limited to only certain shifts and opportunities. I'm afraid we're seeing that in this series. But frankly if his linemates or D on the great passes he makes were cashing at all there would be less concern.

Yes that's kind of something I'm finding hard to accept because Draisitl is one of my favorite players. And It's funny that you mention Messier as that's the exact player I was thinking about Draisitl becoming even as much as 2 years ago when he went super sonic.

Perhaps it's hard to just acknowledge that he's not really the player he was since that injury. Or perhaps he never was very good 5 on 5. I'm going off memory but I always thought of Draisitl as quite a responsible player 5 on 5 until last year and maybe that wasn't the case at all.

I think there's a player there that can take over a game and he's done it even against Vegas last year. But like you said when he picks his spots poorly he can hurt the team as well. And more often then not.. 5 on 5.. he's making poor decisions. And his set ups, combined with his wing mates execution, haven't been good enough to make up for it.

So he ends up as a line the wants to drive offence and takes risks to do so. But those risks more often then not end up with goals against more so then goals for. Really that's all 5 on 5 hockey boils down to. You can score 200 goals 5 on 5 but if you give up 200 you're really not helping the team win anymore than the player that scores 5 and gives up 5. You just make a shit load more money haha.

And A lot of that has to do with the wingers and our goaltending. The wingers have a poor conversion ratio on quality scoring chances and our goalie has a poor conversion ratio stopping high danger chances. This question has been asked all year and last game was evidence of it. The poor guys have to blow the living shit out of the other team because if the chance are close.. they lose.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,236
56,918
Canuck hunting
Take out Perry and put brown there.
Somebody should show Perry this to incite him to make some kind of other than stupid contribution.

Perry, who killed the Oilers so many times continues to do so. Worst forward we're dressing. I'm also posting this in hopes he will do something positive.

So far zero pts, 2 stupid penalties and out of position on the OT winning goal. Probably cheating up to try to sniff some glory. Irony. With his sad skating the one player that can't be cheating up ice is Perry.

Him yelling at Kane is cringe by now. Maybe it always was.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,236
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Canuck hunting
Yes that's kind of something I'm finding hard to accept because Draisitl is one of my favorite players. And It's funny that you mention Messier as that's the exact player I was thinking about Draisitl becoming even as much as 2 years ago when he went super sonic.

Perhaps it's hard to just acknowledge that he's not really the player he was since that injury. Or perhaps he never was very good 5 on 5. I'm going off memory but I always thought of Draisitl as quite a responsible player 5 on 5 until last year and maybe that wasn't the case at all.

I think there's a player there that can take over a game and he's done it even against Vegas last year. But like you said when he picks his spots poorly he can hurt the team as well. And more often then not.. 5 on 5.. he's making poor decisions. And his set ups, combined with his wing mates execution, haven't been good enough to make up for it.

So he ends up as a line the wants to drive offence and takes risks to do so. But those risks more often then not end up with goals against more so then goals for. Really that's all 5 on 5 hockey boils down to. You can score 200 goals 5 on 5 but if you give up 200 you're really not helping the team win anymore than the player that scores 5 and gives up 5. You just make a shit load more money haha.

And A lot of that has to do with the wingers and our goaltending. The wingers have a poor conversion ratio on quality scoring chances and our goalie has a poor conversion ratio stopping high danger chances. This question has been asked all year and last game was evidence of it. The poor guys have to blow the living shit out of the other team because if the chance are close.. they lose.
WE need a reset here as well on the thinking that only McDrai are responsible for results. If most of the club adds little then thats what the club is. No other team gets so much from just two of their players. We've got more out of McDrai than anybody could reasonably ask.

We've got other players here that are being passengers in the playoffs. That can't be happening. Right not Drai specifically is supposed to make Foegele happen in the playoffs which hasn't happened since Carolina, and RNH on the other side still in his "I did enough last season stupor" RNH hasn't been an impact player this season. Once again, and always Danault is being a better player than Nuge in the playoffs. Thats too bad.

The 1990 Oilers stars were looking prepared to work to rule. Down 3-1 in games to Jets in first series and trailing in game 5. It wasn't a conscious process but there was some doubt in the team initially that playoffs, and the team hadn't been too good in regular season. The push came from young Ranford getting his feet under him and from the KidLine coming into its own. Without both of those the team was having trouble finding traction. The star players were tired.

Again I don't think its conscious but I'd wonder how tired McDrai are of having to carry the team all the time. Hyman and Ekholm are the onboard signings that recognize this. Booch gets credit too. Holloway recently. The rest need to onboard quick. Before playoffs started there was talk we needed a Pisani to get going in playoffs. Well that spring it was several unexpected contributions and players elevating all round. From several players we haven't seen that.
 
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Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
26,510
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I sense another bad game by Skinner, and that is that. Can't win without at least passable tending, and he hasn't done that a single time yet in the playoffs that I can recall. Maybe 1 game last year? Until he proves he can do it, I will continue to assume that he can't.

images
 
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Dazed and Confused

Ludicrous speed, GO!
Aug 10, 2007
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I'm not sure how Foegele is still in the top 6.

Imo that second goal was completely on him being a selfish puck hog. He cycles by himself with the puck in the corner for a solid 10 seconds, looking off Drai and RNH more than once. Then when he (finally) cut to the high slot, he had a clean passing lane to an uncovered Ekholm, but chose to launch a weak wrister instead. Talbot easily handled it and gave it to his defence, who sprang the counter attack while the Oil were flat-footed.

You can try that crap when you're on the ice with McLeod, Perry, Kulak and Vinny. But he did more to shut down and derail a shift with Drai, RNH, Bouchard, and Ekholm on the ice than the actual Kings' defence...

I'd happily rotate him with Kane, Holloway, or even Brown after that showing.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,236
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I'm not sure how Foegele is still in the top 6.

Imo that second goal was completely on him being a selfish puck hog. He cycles but himself with the puck in the corner for a solid 10 seconds, looking off Drai and RNH more than once. Then when he (finally) cut to the high slot, he had a clean passing lane to an uncovered Ekholm, but chose to launch a weak wrister instead. Talbot easily handles it and gives it to his defence, who springs the counter attack while the Oil were flat-footed.

You can try that crap when you're on the ice with McLeod, Perry, Kulak and Vinny. But he did more to shut down and derail a shift with Drai, RNH, Bouchard, and Ekholm on the ice than the actual Kings' defence...

I'd happily rotate him with Kane, Holloway, or even Brown after that showing.
Because its Drai. We went out and got 3 what we thought were topsix players in Henrique, Kane, and Perry and only one is looking like one. As per usual Drai getting stuck with a player that isn't topsix and can only play up for limited games until he disappears again. What if antyhing is Foegele adding this playoffs or any playoffs for the Oilers?

I'll answer. Foegele is -9 through 3 Oilers post seasons and has 6pts in 27GP. He has got a couple pts this year so Drai is managing something with him but historically Foegele has been shit here in playoffs. You can basically guarantee he will be out of position half the time.
 

McShogun99

Registered User
Aug 30, 2009
17,936
13,473
Edmonton
The Draisaitl line got absolutely owned by the Kopitar line last game.
That simply cant happen again.

The team needs to tighten up defensively as well to have any chance at winning. The little things matter.
Im expecting a much more detailed game today.
I'd sit Perry for Brown and have him take Foegele's spot next to Draisaitl. He's one of our best defensive forwards even though he was snake bitten for most of the year offensively.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
13,755
13,156
WE need a reset here as well on the thinking that only McDrai are responsible for results. If most of the club adds little then thats what the club is. No other team gets so much from just two of their players. We've got more out of McDrai than anybody could reasonably ask.

We've got other players here that are being passengers in the playoffs. That can't be happening. Right not Drai specifically is supposed to make Foegele happen in the playoffs which hasn't happened since Carolina, and RNH on the other side still in his "I did enough last season stupor" RNH hasn't been an impact player this season. Once again, and always Danault is being a better player than Nuge in the playoffs. Thats too bad.

The 1990 Oilers stars were looking prepared to work to rule. Down 3-1 in games to Jets in first series and trailing in game 5. It wasn't a conscious process but there was some doubt in the team initially that playoffs, and the team hadn't been too good in regular season. The push came from young Ranford getting his feet under him and from the KidLine coming into its own. Without both of those the team was having trouble finding traction. The star players were tired.

Again I don't think its conscious but I'd wonder how tired McDrai are of having to carry the team all the time. Hyman and Ekholm are the onboard signings that recognize this. Booch gets credit too. Holloway recently. The rest need to onboard quick. Before playoffs started there was talk we needed a Pisani to get going in playoffs. Well that spring it was several unexpected contributions and players elevating all round. From several players we haven't seen that.

I think the problem is not recognizing their contributions in the context of the game. For example:

Scenario 1 - they are hot and light it up, resulting in a win, a lot of top 6 scoring, and a bottom 6 that saws off or gives up a few. Reaction - "thank god we have McDavid and Leon because the bottom 6 sucks," even though the bottom 6 wasn't really a relevant part of the game because the other two put it away quickly.

Scenario 2 - Bottom 6 scores goals while McDavid and Drai are caught in a matchup battle with a good team. Reaction - "Bottom 6 showed up, but where the hell were those two?"

Almost always ends up being a chicken/egg dichotomy. If the bottom 6 scores goals to put us ahead we are happy, but confused why McDavid and Drai didn't contribute. If McDavid and Drai contribute, we lament the lack of scoring in the bottom 6. Truth is if one side of the lineup or not is scoring, there isn't as much of a need for the other half of the lineup to open up to score more.

This isn't necessarily applicable to Game 2 as being down should have forced everyone to step up, but just an observation I have about people's view of the team generally.
 
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Slats432

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Jun 2, 2002
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hockeypedia.com
Interesting all the despair here. All I said to my son after Kopitar scored was "Well, no one expects to win 16 in a row. On to the next."

I would like to see Holloway get a bump. His speed and forecheck would help the top two lines.

Nuge McDavid Hyman
Holloway Draisaitl Fogele
McLeod Henrique Kane
Perry Carrick Janmark
 
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K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
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13,156
When the kings scored I threw my phone against the wall

I just casually walked out because I called it about 5 mins before it happened. Told my seat mate "think this one makes it past 5 mins before we barf one up on a rush or do you think it will be different than the last half dozen OTs at home?"

Couldn't have been any less surprised.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
52,892
15,682
Interesting all the despair here. All I said to my son after Kopitar scored was "Well, no one expects to win 16 in a row. On to the next."

I would like to see Holloway get a bump. His speed and forecheck would help the top two lines.

Nuge McDavid Hyman
Holloway Draisaitl Fogele
McLeod Henrique Kane
Perry Carrick Janmark
We did it already once this year. Should've stopped at 15 and saved the 16 for playoffs:sarcasm:

I just casually walked out because I called it about 5 mins before it happened. Told my seat mate "think this one makes it past 5 mins before we barf one up on a rush or do you think it will be different than the last half dozen OTs at home?"

Couldn't have been any less surprised.
Just imagine a 3 or 4 OT game and then losing. Think my rage would be a lot higher
 
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