"Watered Down" OHL

[Otto]

I have read that already, thanks for posting though; all the in addition to education was for OMG67 actually.
The collection of funds is not crystal clear however. I have read that smaller market teams (not producing several pros at a time) are at a distinct disadvantage with regard to education transfers because the fees are not due until players graduate from the OHL. So London for example, would pay less to the fund than a team at the bottom of a cycle not producing pros.

Sorry... yes .. that last post wasn't meant for you

 

[Otto]

I have read that already, thanks for posting though; all the in addition to education was for OMG67 actually.
The collection of funds is not crystal clear however. I have read that smaller market teams (not producing several pros at a time) are at a distinct disadvantage with regard to education transfers because the fees are not due until players graduate from the OHL. So London for example, would pay less to the fund than a team at the bottom of a cycle not producing pros.

If that's indeed true that's a horrible way of doing things from a money management side of things.

 

[dirty12]

If that's indeed true that's a horrible way of doing things from a money management side of things.

agree. If full transfer fee was paid annually, there would be a surplus possibly enough to add a gold package per team.
Surpluses are tricky to manage though. Subject to tax laws, any change to spending or transfer of $ from plan to plan garners scrutiny. Audits of business are a bad, bad thing for any association, league, union. Should any part of the OHL business become public domain, the NCAA & USHL would be all over it for reasons to cite unfair competition practices

 

[Buttsy]

So you would add mid level talent, but your higher end talent would leave the league early thus watering down the overall talent of the league

Sorry struggling to supply all the details. A High level prospect is actually affected quite a bit less. For example a player like McDavid or Lafrieniere was pretty sure he was playing in the NHL post draft year. This is why I feel it directly impacts the non elite or Mid Level talent a bit more. Maybe a decent example would be a Sonny Milano. Because he didn’t report to the OHL team that drafted him he was able to collect a pay check and access the AHL post draft year more preferable for him as otherwise in the CHL he would have been back to his Junior Team? The CHL would be better off levelling the field when it comes to player advantage and go head to head based on skill development and % of players promoted to the big leagues. I believe they would “win” a lot more without this “Player Protection” agreement in place. In order to not dominate the thread I won’t answer any further questions as like I mentioned there are many scenarios with many impacts. But it’s just an IMO to your original question. Cheers

 

[Otto]

Sorry struggling to supply all the details. A High level prospect is actually affected quite a bit less. For example a player like McDavid or Lafrieniere was pretty sure he was playing in the NHL post draft year. This is why I feel it directly impacts the non elite or Mid Level talent a bit more. Maybe a decent example would be a Sonny Milano. Because he didn’t report to the OHL team that drafted him he was able to collect a pay check and access the AHL post draft year more preferable for him as otherwise in the CHL he would have been back to his Junior Team? The CHL would be better off levelling the field when it comes to player advantage and go head to head based on skill development and % of players promoted to the big leagues. I believe they would “win” a lot more without this “Player Protection” agreement in place. In order to not dominate the thread I won’t answer any further questions as like I mentioned there are many scenarios with many impacts. But it’s just an IMO to your original question. Cheers

Sorry... it still doesn't make sense.. I fail to see how your suggestion wouldn't water the league down further

 

[OMG67]

Regarding the Scholarship funding.

My understanding is the teams pay the League; however, they are reimbursed/refunded when the scholarship is cancelled. The money doesn’t just stay in the fund.

So, hypothetically speaking, the 67’s have 23 players that all get some form of scholarship for playing that season. Ten are Gold packages at upwards of $30k per year and Thirteen are standard at $10k per year. That would mean the 67’s would need to pay the league $430k to the fund. However, the players that have their scholarships canceled for Pro or simply not wanting to attend school or they quit school, would have the remainder of their scholarship refunded against the amount owing. In addition, some don’t spend to their allotment. For example, a player may attend a College program like Police Foundations which is far cheaper than Pre-Med. So that amount would be refunded as well.

I don’t know what the numbers are for scholarship fees paid per team per year but I seem to remember the 67’s paying in the low $100k range based on the analysis docs made public when the lawsuit for player wages was released and published.

Agin, I am just going on memory but I seem to remember the range per team for scholarships for that two year period released was int he $70k to upper $100k range depending on the team.

 

[OMG67]

According to this they are already doing everything you want them to do re: training

OHL Prospective Player Information – Ontario Hockey League.

I understand that but it is vague at best.

Bullet point for “Strength and Conditioning Coaches” and “Nutritional Consultants.”

I assume the actual policy goes much deeper than that but if you are pointing to that as a quality standard, I am not sure what to say. A Strength and Conditioning Coach could be as little as the local Personal Trainer at GoodLife. Nutritional Consultants could be as little as a general Basic Food Habits Coach. Neither of those would be geared toward developing High Level Athletes within a specific sport.

Keep in mind, I am not suggesting that is what teams have. I am sure they are far more advanced than that. However, there is quite a steep scale for that type of development.

Anyway, I am bowing out of this conversation. My point is that there are a handful of teams with elite advanced development that other teams could potentially benefit from and raise the overall skill level of the league. IT wasn’t meant to be a debate about the finer points of what each team does. I simply pointed to the success of the 67’s program over the last few years since they started their new Training and Development program and how the League could potentially institute a higher standard for all teams to reach.

If you feel the team that trains their players the least is a high enough standard for the league overall and no one shoudl care or try to raise that bar then so be it.

 

[OMG67]

Sorry struggling to supply all the details. A High level prospect is actually affected quite a bit less. For example a player like McDavid or Lafrieniere was pretty sure he was playing in the NHL post draft year. This is why I feel it directly impacts the non elite or Mid Level talent a bit more. Maybe a decent example would be a Sonny Milano. Because he didn’t report to the OHL team that drafted him he was able to collect a pay check and access the AHL post draft year more preferable for him as otherwise in the CHL he would have been back to his Junior Team? The CHL would be better off levelling the field when it comes to player advantage and go head to head based on skill development and % of players promoted to the big leagues. I believe they would “win” a lot more without this “Player Protection” agreement in place. In order to not dominate the thread I won’t answer any further questions as like I mentioned there are many scenarios with many impacts. But it’s just an IMO to your original question. Cheers

That would take a lot of analysis.

First, you’d have to create a viable number of players that are motivated by playing in the AHL at 18 years old. Most players that don’t report to the OHL do so because they feel the NCAA is a better route for them. Trying to weed out those players from the ones that are motivated to earn $70k x 2 as 18 and 19 year olds vs the ones truly looking for an education would be tough.

Second, even if you could develop a number of players that would report to the OHL were they able to play AHL at 18, you’d then have to temper that with the number of players that chose the OHL regardless of the rule change and were good enough post-draft to play AHL but not NHL.

Your suggestion is we’d have more players reporting than we’d see leaving early, thus creating a net benefit of added players to the league.

The problem with that theory is it would create a positive increase of quality players but only as 16 and 17 year olds. We wouldn’t see as many higher quality 18 and 19 year olds. Those players would be gone.

Just from this past draft in 2019 and 2020, I would suggest this list of players that would be gone for the 2021 season (our current season):
Harley
Tomasino
McMichael
Suzuki
Kaliyev
Robertson
Byfield
Drysdale
Quinn
Perfetti
Foerster
Perreault

I would argue all of those players would qualify for the AHL or at least ECHL if they for some reason didn’t quite make the cut at the AHL level for this season.

We’d then have to balance that against the impact of the 16 and 17 year olds that we attracted because they are eligible to play AHL and would forego the US route.

I don’t have the slightest idea what the net result would be but my thinking is we may get the additional players to report as you suggest but I think the tradeoff of losing the 18 and 19 year old stars of our league would outweigh the added 16 and 17 year olds. Jsut my way of thinking.

 

[Whalers Fan]

I think the perception many are referring to is the poor star quality rate of late first rounders. In addition, we see a lot of top Canadians looking more seriously at NCAA. As little as 10 years ago, it was more about which Americans the OHL teams can sign.

I haven’t done the research but I do believe more American kids are playing int he OHL now that there are four teams located in the USA so it probably evens out.

There are only three OHL teams located in the U.S. -- Saginaw, Flint and Erie.