Washington wins the lottery

[Mothra]

i dont think for a second anyone wanted kolzig unless the caps were picking up a ton of salary. any rumour otherwise was washington creating hype. you cant give them any credibility because they didnt trade kolzig, if ANYONE wouldve picked up that contract he would have been gone.....he didnt stay because they wanted to keep him.

Well thats pretty much fact......The Caps were not going to eat any salary other than 68's....they said it and stuck to it....that was the hold up on Lang.....Finally someone budged....in Kolzigs case no one was willing to do that...so the Caps kept him......How about Witt? Care to comment on how a team and owner that "try to lose" (according to many) and make "shady" (according to you) moves didnt move a player than I am sure many teams would have liked to have added? Doesnt seem to support your arguement.....

and I still cant get past this one....they were bottom 5 all season....last place looked sooooo out of reach I cant imagine they even thought about that when making trades and such......they finished pretty much where they were all season....how is that "shady"?

 

[Mothra]

I fail to see how finishing in the bottom 5 with a 75 million dollar payroll is somehow better than finishing in the bottom 5 with a 25 million dollar payroll. You argue that "at least they tried", but that's bull. Trying doesn't count, you have to execute. Leonsis looks like worse of a business man than Lemieux, because at least Lemieux has excuses.

75 Million???.....could that be an exaggeration on your part?

I think Leonsis was quite smart....instead of taking 3 years to dump salary he made a decision and they moved forward swiftly.....thats smart. He recognized that what he tried (spedning big) wasnt working and quickly changed...

 

[ej_pens]

If the Minnesota Wild were able to achieve results from the start with NOTHING, nobody will ever make me believe the Pens couldn't do likewise. The money thing does not change the fact you can and MUST try to win. There are cheap free agents, import UFAs. Instead of dumping Jagr for picks you could have acquire a couple of cheap youngsters, sure things. Instead you end up with three guys who are in limbo and further sucking up ressorces instead of helping.

So what you are saying is that, instead of trying to eventually build a championship team, teams should instead wallow in mediocrity, hoping that everything might go right one year and they make a run in the playoffs. Never really building a true "winner", but being just good enough that you stick close enough to the playoffs.

Screw that. I'll accept a season like the Pens have had this year if it means that the Pens build a winner. We've lived through that mediocre team/hoping to make the playoffs bit for a good 7 years. Guess what.....there are no awards for doing that. In the end, no one cares how you get there, as long as you do eventually win. No one cares that the Nordiques sucked for as long as they did, because they eventually build that into a winner. No one cares that the Red Wings were terrible most of the 70's and 80's. Were they "not trying"?

The Pens tried this year. They decided to take a bunch of kids and get them experience to help them win in the future. Why is it such a big deal what a team does in one single season if the end goal of the plan is to build a winner?

 

[Evilo]

Where I don't get you Vlad is that you justify your criticisms by saying you're a fan of the sport.
Then you should know the Penguins fans have had a better product than the Rangers and Caps.
Penguins had players that tried hard all season (something you could credit Olczyk BTW rather than giving him unfair criticism) and have had great games with youngsters. Caps and Ranger have had overpaid stars playing lazy all season with no coach (Sather himself) or some joke of a coach (Cassidy).
Who's the team ridiculous here? Who's trying?
I have nothing against Rangers, the Caps and their fans, but to say you're happy that the Pens lost because you're a fan of hockey shows you have a VERY biased and unclear view of the situation.
Your anti-Mario bias is so blind that you can't evn recognize what some Caps fans and Rangers fans have said here or on the Pens boards quite a few times this season : they'd rather have a low payroll team filled with youngsters trying hard than lazy overpaid stars with no interest in the result.
You give no credit for Olczyk while everyone in the business did.
You give no credit to the players who tried hard.
You give no credit to the team that went on a tear and that once was the hottest team in the NHL.
You give no credit to CP for his maginficent deals (Jackman-Berehowsky, Holzinger-Pirjeta, etc...).
You give no credit to the management for seeing the trend that everyone saw too late (dump the salaries before they can't be dumped).

Sorry Vlad, not only do I disagree, but I'm probably more proud of my team and management after this season than after the last 5.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

At least, the Caps tried. The Penguins? They made it very clear from day one they were absolutely not interested in putting a decent product for their fans.

Yeah, if you all dumping over $30 million in salary at the trade deadline and starting your #4 goalie several times down the stretch "trying".

I was rooting for Columbus. Here is a team that made a legitimate effort to make the playoffs with the Darryl Sydor trade, and while they did lose Sanderson and Sydor close to the deadline, they didn't go into the tank like the Caps did.

 

[EroCaps]

Yeah, if you all dumping over $30 million in salary at the trade deadline and starting your #4 goalie several times down the stretch "trying".

I was rooting for Columbus. Here is a team that made a legitimate effort to make the playoffs with the Darryl Sydor trade, and while they did lose Sanderson and Sydor close to the deadline, they didn't go into the tank like the Caps did.

We didn't tank, we sent our best youngsters down to Portland to help them make the playoffs, and it seems to be working out for us, for the time being.

 

[Mothra]

Yeah, if you all dumping over $30 million in salary at the trade deadline and starting your #4 goalie several times down the stretch "trying".

I was rooting for Columbus. Here is a team that made a legitimate effort to make the playoffs with the Darryl Sydor trade, and while they did lose Sanderson and Sydor close to the deadline, they didn't go into the tank like the Caps did.

why do you just ignore the fact they finished in the same position they were at for just about the entire season.....its not like they were 8th or 9th worse then tanked it.......they sucked all damn year

 

[Jag68Sid87]

How can anybody say the Penguins didn't 'try' this season? Forget about management, Mario, the arena issue, the Fleury situation...what about their record in the second half of the season? They created a cavernous hole for themselves in the first half, then slowly began to crawl out of it as the season wore on. Olczyk might have been a newbie head coach, and perhaps not the best candidate at the time of his hire, but let's give him some credit for not allowing his team of castoffs and misfits to quit...when they probably had every reason to do so.

If what happened in the second half is any indication, the Penguins are on their way to some form of revival...First overall pick or not.

 

[usiel]

I probably watched about 65 caps games this year and when they had all their big guns still the team just flat out stunk. . .I mean it totally sucked to watched them play. This so called AHL team that they fielded in the aftermath was more enjoyable to watch. They actually tried and played hard. And as mothra said they didn't finish any worse than around were they hovered all year.

 

[Jacob]

75 Million???.....could that be an exaggeration on your part?...

Jagr - 11 million
Lang - 5 million
Bondra 5 million?
Gonchar - 4?
Kolzig - 7
Nylander - 3
Konowalchuk - 2
Witt - 2

That's like 40 million right there. Whatever their payroll was, it should have been enough to get them into the playoffs.

I think Leonsis was quite smart....instead of taking 3 years to dump salary he made a decision and they moved forward swiftly.....thats smart. He recognized that what he tried (spedning big) wasnt working and quickly changed

Nobody's disagreeing with that. But he still made many bad business moves leading up to the rebuild. Signing Jagr for 7 years before he even played a single game for Washington was one of them.

The Caps didn't trade away stars to start losing.

I never said that either. But Vlad is saying that the Penguins traded their stars to start losing, while the Caps did it because they're well managed. It doesn't work both ways.

I'm not saying that the salary dumps lost games for them, but the Yeats, Stroshein and Verot callups look questionable, to say the least. Not just that they were called up, but that they played regular minutes despite clearly not being able to compete at this level.

Where it's no fun is when you don't try. Is Lemieux a smarter hockey guy than Leonsis? Most probably. But he is terribly misguided and is simply not trying hard. I care about this sport and I think it is in the interest of all fans (and even more in the interest of Pittsburgh fans) to have a league where people try. Otherwise, it cheapens the sport.

What isn't Lemieux trying hard at? If anything, he's doing what Leonsis should have done since day one; sign the checks and stay out of the picture. You can't deny that Lemieux got this team out of bankruptcy. One could argue that he was just trying to get his fair share back into his pocket, but what's the excuse for keeping the team? He's not the long-term investor we need. His priorities right now (hopefully) include getting an arena built, so the team gets revenue, so they can get more investors, so they can be competitive again.

We seem to disagree on this, which is unfortunate. But hey, if you're fine with the way things are in the NHL, I am not. In this era of overscouting, it will become increasingly clear that the next step after the CBA will be to have a healthy competitive league and I think the best way to achieve this will be to award the best lottery slot to the 17th team overall, not the 30th.

If you're fine with people who give up, I am not. If the Minnesota Wild were able to achieve results from the start with NOTHING, nobody will ever make me believe the Pens couldn't do likewise. The money thing does not change the fact you can and MUST try to win. There are cheap free agents, import UFAs. Instead of dumping Jagr for picks you could have acquire a couple of cheap youngsters, sure things. Instead you end up with three guys who are in limbo and further sucking up ressorces instead of helping.

It's not that I disagree with it, I just plain don't understand your point. What are they giving up on? Winning? It's called a rebuild. Like I said, they've been out of the playoffs 3 years, not 30. At least they aren't pulling the wool over their and their fans eyes by employing 20 veterans that can't hack it, they're going young and they're doing a fairly decent job at it.

The fanbase will need to be won back, the team has totally gave up on playoffs revenue.

So you think if they had kept Straka and maybe even Kovalev, that they would have gotten to the playoffs? Because I doubt it. They would have just been paying 12 million more dollars for a non-playoff team.

 

[CapsCrazy]

Caps and Ranger have had overpaid stars playing lazy all season with no coach (Sather himself) or some joke of a coach (Cassidy).
Who's the team ridiculous here? Who's trying?

Do you not realize that the Caps traded all their "overpaid, lazy players" and fired Cassidy? Making a statement like you did has absolutely no value - if anything, it shows that the Caps did the smart thing by trading the players and coaches that weren't performing and bringing in hard workers who play with emotion. So thank you for complimenting the Caps even though you were trying to insult them

 

[Jacob]

If hard work work and emotion was all you needed to win games in the NHL, somebody would have signed me to a contract by now.

 

[Mothra]

Jagr - 11 million
Lang - 5 million
Bondra 5 million?
Gonchar - 4?
Kolzig - 7
Nylander - 3
Konowalchuk - 2
Witt - 2

That's like 40 million right there. Whatever their payroll was, it should have been enough to get them into the playoffs.

Never said they didnt have a high payroll.....just not even close to 75 mil....thats like me saying the payroll was about 35 mil.......it was exaggeration on your part. I also think some of your above numbers are being rounded up....but thats not really the point

Nobody's disagreeing with that. But he still made many bad business moves leading up to the rebuild. Signing Jagr for 7 years before he even played a single game for Washington was one of them.

I'm not saying that the salary dumps lost games for them, but the Yeats, Stroshein and Verot callups look questionable, to say the least. Not just that they were called up, but that they played regular minutes despite clearly not being able to compete at this level.

Yes....and they admit it was a mistake...I give them credit for bailing on that approach and going another direction...and swiftly. The moves they made were not popular to say the least.....Leonsis was upset enough to let it get the best of him with the fan he scuffled with.....and it bugs me to see people say they "try to lose" when they spent big money very recently to win

as for guys "clearly not being able to compete at this level."....that describes perfectly the prospects that were sent down......their development was going backwards in the NHL...they were just too young......and it wasnt like they could have played "under the wing" of some established NHL players to help bring them along slowly......it was a smart move in the development of these players to send them down

Really...the goaltending moves are the only thing people can look at IMO....and again...it not like they went from outside of the bottom 5 teams to 3rd worse with a few starts by a minor league goalie......they ended up right where they were all season

 

[Evilo]

Do you not realize that the Caps traded all their "overpaid, lazy players" and fired Cassidy? Making a statement like you did has absolutely no value - if anything, it shows that the Caps did the smart thing by trading the players and coaches that weren't performing and bringing in hard workers who play with emotion. So thank you for complimenting the Caps even though you were trying to insult them

I was not trying to insult them and YES they did the right thing.
But how can anyone seriously say they'd rather have a bunch of lazy overpaid stars playing rather than a rop of hard working youngsters?
My point remains that for most of the season, the Pens had a better product than both the Rangers and Caps.
I don't think you understood my post.

 

[C-A-P-S]

I will come out right now and say that I am a Cap fan and I am happy to see that the team won the lottery but I will be honest and say that I am not a big fan of the lottery either in hockey or football. I really think the team with the worst record should have the 1st pick.

However, with that said I take offense to this idea that Caps tanked to get the first pick in the draft. The bottom line is the team was underacheiving all season nearly at the bottom of the league with the 5th highest payroll. They made a number of painful moves that basically gutted the team.

And as a result if anyone actually watched the Caps since the purge, the team, with the exception of the Buffalo game in which Grier was traded, was in every single game competing night in and night out. This is with their team of supposed AHLers.

Addtionally, the Caps have put themselves in a very favorable situation with the CBA bargaining coming up. As of right now only Kolzig, Witt, Semin are under contract with obviously Zubrus and Halpern receiving qualifiying offers for next season. Whatever the situation next season, mangement has really left the Capitals with a lot of flexibility, whether that means bringing in new free agents or slowly developing its prospects in Portland.

As for starting Matt Yeats a number of times, the Caps AHL team the Pirates have been and still are in the midst of a playoff drive for the final playoff spot. I beleive the decision to send players like Eminger, Aulin, Morrison, Laich, Gordon, Stana, Ouellette down to Portland is to ensure that the Pirates claim the final spot. If they succeed it will give these players an opportunity to do something that they weren't going to be able to do in Washington: Play in the Playoffs and Build Chemistry with their teammates during a playoff drive.

I think it was a good move and it looks like it will payoff as the Pirates are now in the driver's seat for the final spot. So why don't you critics relax and take Malkin this year and focus on Crosby next year. The lottery is the lottery. If you're pissed get angry at the NHL its their system.

 

[Jacob]

Never said they didnt have a high payroll.....just not even close to 75 mil....thats like me saying the payroll was about 35 mil.......it was exaggeration on your part. I also think some of your above numbers are being rounded up....but thats not really the point

I exaggerated on the Penguins salary as well.

 

[Mothra]

I exaggerated on the Penguins salary as well.

dude....just stop...

You said the Caps payroll was 24 million higher than it was....

You said the Pens Payroll was 1.6 million lower than it was...

Is it even close?

maybe you should try to stick with the facts instead of exaggerating them to support your point

 

[Jacob]

No, I upped the salary. Without Lemieux, it's closer to 20. Rozsival too probably brings it down to 19 million.

My point was that their payroll and their personel should have been enough to get them into the playoffs. Exaggerations or incorrect figures aside, how can you disagree with that?

 

[Mothra]

No, I upped the salary. Without Lemieux, it's closer to 20. Rozsival too probably brings it down to 19 million.

My point was that their payroll and their personel should have been enough to get them into the playoffs. Exaggerations or incorrect figures aside, how can you disagree with that?

I didnt disagree with the fact the Caps should be a playoff team with a high payroll.....again....just the massive exaggerating....you basically added the entire Pit payroll to the Caps......you cant be surprised to be called on that

 

[CapsCrazy]

If hard work work and emotion was all you needed to win games in the NHL, somebody would have signed me to a contract by now.

When did I ever say that hard work and emotion won games? I said we shipped out or overpaid, under-achieving players and brought in hard workers, which was a good decision by Leonsis and it was better to see guys who wanted to play. It makes no sense to do poorly while spending tons of money. One thing I really don't like is people putting words in my mouth.

On another note, there's a good chance Jagr may never play in a playoff game again. With his current salary, no team that is in the playoffs is going to pick it up, and NYR isn't going anywhere fast. I hope this is true. Jagr is such a cancer.

 

[Jacob]

I didn't put words into your mouth, I was merely making a statement. But the object of the game is to win, right?

 

[CapsCrazy]

Obviously the object is to win. But neither the Pens nor the Caps were winning, so how do you have any room to criticize the Caps for not winning? Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not affiliated with the Penguins. Therefore, I can criticize.

 

[Mothra]

I didn't put words into your mouth, I was merely making a statement. But the object of the game is to win, right?

IMO the object of the game is to win the Cup...and sometimes you have to take a step(s) back to go forward....im not going to go over the whole "look who they started in goal for a few games" becasue it doesnt matter....and I think thats where you want this to go......they finished up pretty much where they were all season....

For some reason you just wont admit you grossly exaggerated figures to support an arguement

 

[Jacob]

No, I just guessed. It doesn't matter if their salary was 50 million or 80 million, my point was the same.

Get over it.