MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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And Crosby-Bergeron was quite proven already....Only thing is with Stamkos originally being on the team, it also would have made sense having MSL on the team going by that logic.
And Crosby-Bergeron was quite proven already....Only thing is with Stamkos originally being on the team, it also would have made sense having MSL on the team going by that logic.
That someone quite disconnected with the modern use of the word:I also remember Yzerman's response to him "snubbing" some players. I am paraphrasing but I can remember him saying "Does anyone know what the word 'snub' actually means? It means to ignore a person." He went on to say that the Team Canada brass did not ignore the players not picked, they were talked about and thought about. And you know, he's right. Stevie Y can pick another Team Canada anyday in my mind. He won both times he did it.
That someone quite disconnected with the modern use of the word:
as in rejectingThesaurus results for SNUBBING
Synonyms for SNUBBING: rejecting, isolating, cutting, repulsing, repelling, slighting, cold-shouldering, stiffing; Antonyms of SNUBBING: respecting, honoring, valuing, admiring, cherishing, treasuring, prizing, worshipingwww.merriam-webster.com
to deliberately ignore or treat rudely
Snubbing involve more than just not even thought about someone, it is some deliberate act of not inviting them.
Someone has to be big enough to be in the decider mind to be snubbed.
St. Louis has got to be easily the most underrated two-time Ross winner. Crazy that he is Canadian, too, because typically the Euros get the short end a bit.
Like everyone said, Yzerman shouldnt have just picked 'his guys', but this guybwas someone he should have picked, I think.
Would it be akin to leaving Mitch Marner off in 2026? Ranks really high in scoring, playmaking first winger that doesn't necessarily score a lot of goals, not necessarily the big, hard hitting, forechecker type of wing.. but Marner is well regarded for PK, backchecking and in-zone defensive play.. although Giroux was kind of those things also and got left off.
That's a very good comparison and I suspect that there are good odds that Marner wouldn't make Canada in 2022 and may not in 2026. St. Louis didn't have the mentality questions that Marner has, but Marner is solid defensively while St. Louis wasn't. Playmakers are historically hard pressed to make Canada and those that do are usually centres rather than wingers, Kariya being a somewhat recent exception. I do believe that Giroux is a much harder to justify snub in 2014 than St. Louis ever was.
Second language so I could be all wrong, but being good enough to be considered but not invited is what make it a snub, the fact a committee thought and voted him down is the snub, not something that remove being snubbed.
The tens of thousands of Canadians adult hockey players that were not even in the discussion were not snubbed, only those in reasonable contention for a spot can be.
Patrick Roy was snubbed by team Canada until 1998, Oates-Francis all their career long and so on. The WHA being a big example of players snubbed.
I remember correctly predicting the eight defencemen Canada would pick. Letang wouldn't have shocked me but I fully expect he would have gotten the Subban treatment and been relegated to the press box. Doughty and Weber were clearly higher in the right side pecking order and Pietrangelo was a smarter and less risky player who had a potential pairing partner in Bouwmeester. Subban was a somewhat similar to Letang but Letang hadn't played for Canada since junior (still hasn't) and, I don't think that this was a big factor, Subban at least flew over immediately after being eliminated from the 2013 playoffs and played for Canada. If Letang had played the full season in 2013 and won the Norris he probably makes it over Subban.You never know with Marner. There could be that mental block that he still has by then of having every opportunity to thrive in the playoffs and not doing so. Would that affect his chances of being picked? Who knows. But it wouldn't surprise me. Like you said, playmaking wingers aren't always at the top. Kariya was also a pretty darn good goal scorer too. But even with him they didn't pick him surprisingly in 2004. That one I still don't get. 2006 maybe, but 2004 I don't know anyone who didn't have him penciled in.
I actually think the Letang omission was bigger than St. Louis. There was this weird mindset Babcock had, and maybe he was right we did win after all, that he wanted an equal amount of right handed shooting defenseman as left handed. Well, we were loaded on the right handed side. So there were good right handed shooting guys left off. Babcock had that same mindset in 2016 and left Letang off the team then too. Now I have no idea what Letang possibly could have done better in 2016 because he won a Cup, was a Smythe candidate, was a 2nd team all-star on defense, had 67 points. No clue. But I suspect the Pens recent playoff failures leading up to 2014 is what kept him off, ditto Fleury as the 3rd string goalie. This is why they went with Mike Smith(!) over him. Even in 2016 Giroux was picked but he only played one game. Babcock was like Keenan, there were guys he simply didn't like and since he won you got over it.
But were they wrong? Did St. Louis fit on the team? I would take Kunitz off and put him on Crosby's line if you ask me, but did St. Louis have the speed at this time to play on the big ice? I honestly wonder when Stamkos went down if St. Louis was even Yzerman's first pick as a back up. He had to pick him because there was so much public pressure but maybe it was Giroux that would be picked. Maybe it was still Iggy. Or Thornton. Or Marchand or Staal. Who knows.
You cannot really be wrong or right here in some absolute sense, and considering they won the 2 gold leaving St-Louis at home, ultimately much easier to argue they were right.But were they wrong? Did St. Louis fit on the team?
I remember correctly predicting the eight defencemen Canada would pick. Letang wouldn't have shocked me but I fully expect he would have gotten the Subban treatment and been relegated to the press box. Doughty and Weber were clearly higher in the right side pecking order and Pietrangelo was a smarter and less risky player who had a potential pairing partner in Bouwmeester. Subban was a somewhat similar to Letang but Letang hadn't played for Canada since junior (still hasn't) and, I don't think that this was a big factor, Subban at least flew over immediately after being eliminated from the 2013 playoffs and played for Canada. If Letang had played the full season in 2013 and won the Norris he probably makes it over Subban.
I don't think that Fleury was a real consideration at that point. He was basically a league average goaltender who seemed erratic in big moments. Price was the now the young goaltender worth investing in.
You cannot really be wrong or right here in some absolute sense, and considering they won the 2 gold leaving St-Louis at home, ultimately much easier to argue they were right.
I think (and maybe that something Yzerman know more), it was more an possible an issue in 2010 than 2014, by the 2014 St-Louis was done has arguably the most dynamic playmaking winger, even if he and most people did not know yet.
And in 2010 not sure they were "wrong" either, going all with really big and fast winger is not a bad idea, special when they can overwhelm not always that big opposition.
Letang had a stroke in 2014. Returned to practice 10 weeks later in March. Don't think he was available. They may have announced the roster before, but I don't see anything at the time that suggested he was a huge snub. Giordano or Boyle was probably the next Defenseman. Best I can see is Letang would have been on a hypothetical "B" team. Definitely a huge snub for the 2016 World Cup of Hockey.
I didn't know this. When was the first time?That wasn't the first time St. Louis asked out of Tampa.
No, it doesn't. A poster specifically stated that St.Louis didn't request but "demanded" a trade; i.e., the poster clearly distinguishes these two things (as do most of us). My point is: If we're going to claim that he "demanded" a trade, we should actually know that, not just assume with no evidence.Whether that's requested or asked or insisted or whatever categorically similar verb gets used...it amounts to the same thing.
Does anyone have the link to / source for this? I'm sure it exists, but I've never seen/heard it.And yes, St. Louis said that being left off the Olympic team was part of the equation for wanting out.
Maybe. I'm just asking for some evidence for this.It clearly was the last straw. It broke the relationship with Yzerman, for all intents and purposes.
Marty St. Louis said being left off the initial Olympic roster for Canada, run by Lightning general manager Steve Yzerman, definitely "had something to do" with his decision to ask for a trade and leave Tampa Bay.
I didn't know this. When was the first time?