Speculation: Was Marleau a bad influence?

[Budz22]

I completely agree. Nylanders cowardly play is killing the culture of this team. Babcock needs to address it. Probably not a bad idea to send Kerfoot and Barrie to the press box for a game.

Couldn’t do it eh? Respond without mentioning Nylander.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't know if he was a bad influence, but there is really no sign of him having a positive effect on our young guys. At best he seemed like a non-factor, just another guy on the team.

How do you know that Marleau didn’t advise Matthews to come clean to the team and Matthews chose to ignore the advice?

I think that it was reported somewhere that Marleau didn't give that advice?

Either way, if Matthews just ignored him that's another sign that Marleau didn't really have much influence.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I doubt he was a bad influence in any way.

Can't imagine he provided anything close to a first round pick and 6.5 million a season worth of good influence, though.

 

[ACC1224]

Looks like they are missing Marleau's influence the way things are going.

Why are Marner and Matthews thought to have bad attitudes?

 

[Leafsfan74]

Hear me out.

Matthews and Marner were very modest kids coming into the NHL. They spent a lot of time with Marleau. Progressively over the years Matthews and Marner gained bad attitudes. Matthews went from humble hard worker who always took things on his shoulder to making constant smirky comments and really is not as aggressive in loose puck battles and stripping pucks as he was as a rookie. Marner came in giving up performance bonuses to squeezing every last penny when he knew it’ll hurt his team.


When Marleau came in he demanded 3 years knowing the third year will hurt the leafs. He even asked for a trade in that third year to return only to the sharks making the leafs pay a 1st to offload him so a team can buy him out.

I know I’m reaching a bit here, but does anyone ever wonder if Marleau’s presence was not the best for them? He was also stripped of the captaincy in the past and asked for a trade than backed out and left his team at 38 to go money chasing

work ethic and attitudes of these two definitely didn’t improve with Marleau around and they did spend a lot of time with him.

The contract demands also show me they weren’t really shown much about putting the team ahead of yourself.

I understand there is a lot of assumptions here and I may be reaching but something in the culture of this team went completely wrong. Having a rookie GM throughout a lot of this didn’t help either.

The worst influence on a young talented player in Toronto, is Toronto itself. The media, the adoring fans, the local businesses and hype. They view themselves as special, and are grossly overpaid to reinforce this opinion.

Put these players in a town where few care or in a blue collar city. They are cheered for success and championships, or else they are ignored, and you produce a different breed of player. Probably pursue a different type of player quite frankly.

Marleau just taught them how to be a pro. It's telling that Matthews called Marleau early after his current legal situation. He was trusted.

Time will tell what type of players they become, this year is a key indicator.

 

[Faltorvo]

Nylander plays his kind of game. Most teams would kill to have him. The problem comes when you can’t insulate him properly. Instead of having heavy hard working forwards we have fragile less skilled types of Nylanders in the lower seeded positions. We don’t have multiple layers to our team.

just to point out I really am mainly talking about the attitude and culture of the leafs and specifically the attitude change in Matthews and Marner since they came into the league

out,,,,kadri/brown/hainsey/zaits/marl ,,, 5 guys that play heavier hockey with a mix of grit and defencive acumen but they got labelled useless on purely offencive #s , i could also throw in Martin/Komarov but but but the children that post here only care about offencive #s


well they got what they cried for a team that is small/plays small with skill and offence in the brain and look at where we are , a team that looks like soft wet sht

 

[The Iceman]

It depends, do you want your players not playing physical or with emotion with very little playoff success?
If yes he was a perfect mentor.
But they are wonderful citizens however.

Good point OP, I had never thought about this.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Marleau gave them a great lesson on how to coast through your career to retire in California with money and no injuries. The trick to the Ironman streak is to never get close to high traffic areas.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Why are Marner and Matthews thought to have bad attitudes?

Eh? First I've heard of that.

 

[Mad hatter]

I completely agree. Nylanders cowardly play is killing the culture of this team. Babcock needs to address it. Probably not a bad idea to send Kerfoot and Barrie to the press box for a game.

Nylander or Kerfoot are playing quite well imho, Barrie has not found his game but not sure the press box would help him find it. I think Hyman coming back helps team toughness and hopefully becomes contagious. I feel a coaching change is needed, that is what will probably end up helping this team the most and feel Marleau did more then adequate job.

 

[Stephen]

out,,,,kadri/brown/hainsey/zaits/marl ,,, 5 guys that play heavier hockey with a mix of grit and defencive acumen but they got labelled useless on purely offencive #s , i could also throw in Martin/Komarov but but but the children that post here only care about offencive #s


well they got what they cried for a team that is small/plays small with skill and offence in the brain and look at where we are , a team that looks like soft wet sht

So true. Everyone who wasn’t a dangle, snipe kind of player was labeled with some condescending label.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I completely agree. Nylanders cowardly play is killing the culture of this team. Babcock needs to address it. Probably not a bad idea to send Kerfoot and Barrie to the press box for a game.

That coward as you put it is the only one producing right now and showing any sort of energy when he scores. Nylander is far from the problem. as usual you’re way off

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Marleau came to the Leafs as a mercenary seeking top dollar, and squeezed us for an extra year.

Seems to me he probably told Matthews, Marner and Nylander to get as much money as they can asap.

I don't think that's necessarily bad advice. But I think he gets wayyyy too much credit as a team player. He's not a team-first guy.

Clear example is his unwillingness to sacrifice his consecutive games streak for the good of the team.

 

[ruaware41]

out,,,,kadri/brown/hainsey/zaits/marl ,,, 5 guys that play heavier hockey with a mix of grit and defencive acumen but they got labelled useless on purely offencive #s , i could also throw in Martin/Komarov but but but the children that post here only care about offencive #s


well they got what they cried for a team that is small/plays small with skill and offence in the brain and look at where we are , a team that looks like soft wet sht

I don't think you actually watched with your eyes open or ever watched Marleau play much if you actually think heavier hockey, grit, or defensive acumen are reasonable descriptions of his play. You are just riding off his reputation based on his demographics, which in hockey holds much more weight than your actual on ice play. Marleau is the softest player to ever put on a pair of skates. This is only observable if you try to observe his play as a player without emotional attachment or stereotypes associated with him that come from being a 6'2 Canadian who doesn't express much of a personality

 

[Ciao]

Marleau gave them a great lesson on how to coast through your career to retire in California with money and no injuries. The trick to the Ironman streak is to never get close to high traffic areas.

That's totally unfair.

 

[Ciao]

Hear me out.

Matthews and Marner were very modest kids coming into the NHL. They spent a lot of time with Marleau. Progressively over the years Matthews and Marner gained bad attitudes. Matthews went from humble hard worker who always took things on his shoulder to making constant smirky comments and really is not as aggressive in loose puck battles and stripping pucks as he was as a rookie. Marner came in giving up performance bonuses to squeezing every last penny when he knew it’ll hurt his team.


When Marleau came in he demanded 3 years knowing the third year will hurt the leafs. He even asked for a trade in that third year to return only to the sharks making the leafs pay a 1st to offload him so a team can buy him out.

I know I’m reaching a bit here, but does anyone ever wonder if Marleau’s presence was not the best for them? He was also stripped of the captaincy in the past and asked for a trade than backed out and left his team at 38 to go money chasing

work ethic and attitudes of these two definitely didn’t improve with Marleau around and they did spend a lot of time with him.

The contract demands also show me they weren’t really shown much about putting the team ahead of yourself.

I understand there is a lot of assumptions here and I may be reaching but something in the culture of this team went completely wrong. Having a rookie GM throughout a lot of this didn’t help either.

I don't agree with your observations of Matthews and Marner to begin with, and I don't think theres a shred of evidence to suggest that Marleau was in any way a bad influence on anyone.

 

[Mad hatter]

Marleau came to the Leafs as a mercenary seeking top dollar, and squeezed us for an extra year.

Seems to me he probably told Matthews, Marner and Nylander to get as much money as they can asap.

I don't think that's necessarily bad advice. But I think he gets wayyyy too much credit as a team player. He's not a team-first guy.

Clear example is his unwillingness to sacrifice his consecutive games streak for the good of the team.

This is a good post, never really thought of some of these points before.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Confusing. Didn't we used to say he was a good mentor/leader (especially during the PM trade talk discussions)?

 

[ACC1224]

Marleau came to the Leafs as a mercenary seeking top dollar, and squeezed us for an extra year.

Seems to me he probably told Matthews, Marner and Nylander to get as much money as they can asap.

I don't think that's necessarily bad advice. But I think he gets wayyyy too much credit as a team player. He's not a team-first guy.

Clear example is his unwillingness to sacrifice his consecutive games streak for the good of the team.

Can you expand on the bolded?

 

[Martin Skoula]

That's totally unfair.

Which part? He's a well known playoff ghost who is one of the softest big men I've seen play.

 

[Menzinger]

Looks like they are missing Marleau's influence the way things are going.

Why are Marner and Matthews thought to have bad attitudes?

Do you think a few months is enough for somebody to radically change their attitudes?

I doubt their personalities are any different from when Marleau was a teammate

 

[Pilky01]

Looks like they are missing Marleau's influence the way things are going.

Why are Marner and Matthews thought to have bad attitudes?

Because they took our GM to the cleaners on their contacts. Also because Matthews got arrested and thought he could hide it from the organization. He clearly doesn’t respect Dubas.

Its obvious Dubas is the problem more than they are, but when you sign for as much as they did and then play like they are then people are going to question their work ethic.

 

[ruaware41]

That's totally unfair.

Yea? And why's that? Why is the media and leafs fans so adamant about giving Marleau a free pass for things others get criticized for even though with them it's not even as much of an issue?

 

[Leafs87]

I don't agree with your observations of Matthews and Marner to begin with, and I don't think theres a shred of evidence to suggest that Marleau was in any way a bad influence on anyone.

I just feel like their attitude wasn’t an issue before when they came into the league. Marleau was supposed to guide them and he really didn’t. The high contracts, Matthews legal trouble and Mitch calling out the Matthews contract to the media. Or his agent which I doubt he didn’t know about before hand

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Wow... talk about a reaching over exaggeration. Blaming him for anything negative to do with the young core is just pure lunacy. He was a teammate and a friend.....NOT their father.

Too many posters here act like they are the ultimate insider when in point of fact they know sweet f*** all...