Merrrlin
Grab the 9 iron, Barry!
- Jul 2, 2019
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Was Faulk to the Blues the most pointless and puzzling trade ever?
- Thread starter JT Kreider
- Start date
GeeoffBrown
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2007
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I suppose that contract is particularly problematic. That might have to be a trade with salary retention.
The trade was fine. Edmundson is a dime a dozen player and they maybe soured on Bokk. The extension was bad the moment it happened and if it ends up jamming the cap up and Pietrangelo walking as a result it’s a calamity. The only way it makes sense is if Pietrangelo straight up told DA he’s not re-signing which I find highly unlikely.
Finlandia WOAT
js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
- May 23, 2010
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Uncle Scrooge
Hockey Bettor
The trade was completely fine.
- Faulk was considered an upgrade over Edmundson, you're trying to make your team better.
- Defense is considered a strength of the Blues, you lose Ed and might end up losing Petro, so you're trying to look ahead and keep solid depth.
- Having a target on your back for winning the cup, you know you're going to get best efforts every night so icing your d-pairings in a more balanced way to combat fatigue was the idea.
- It worked cap-wise for 19-20.
I don't see any issues there honestly.
It's the extension that's baffling. If Faulk signed for 5M per you could say okay, that looked like solid value so Army wanted to jump on it. But there was no reason to lock him up for 6.5M per before he even played a game for the Blues. And now obviously because of covid it's even worse.
- Faulk was considered an upgrade over Edmundson, you're trying to make your team better.
- Defense is considered a strength of the Blues, you lose Ed and might end up losing Petro, so you're trying to look ahead and keep solid depth.
- Having a target on your back for winning the cup, you know you're going to get best efforts every night so icing your d-pairings in a more balanced way to combat fatigue was the idea.
- It worked cap-wise for 19-20.
I don't see any issues there honestly.
It's the extension that's baffling. If Faulk signed for 5M per you could say okay, that looked like solid value so Army wanted to jump on it. But there was no reason to lock him up for 6.5M per before he even played a game for the Blues. And now obviously because of covid it's even worse.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Yes I obviously meant the extension was puzzling. Can never fault a contending team loading up by trading for a pending UFA. But they extended him immediately.
It was a bad trade but Buffalo has made other bad moves, and their GM is subpar. So it's not puzzling in the same way as this move was. St Louis won a cup thanks to their GM's great track record, so for him to do something like this is quite odd.
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
I think St. Louis traded and extended him thinking it would be what Seattle wanted.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
He was a solid top-pairing option for a few years there. An RHD who can produce on the PP and hold his own defensively is a good asset. Canes asked him to do way too much, which is part of why they were a bad team. They had him skating 24:00 a night at age 20 and almost 24:30 by age 22. That’s just ridiculous, maybe you do that with a blossoming Norris candidate, but Faulk was never at that level.
Faulk’s problem is he got sloppier with time. If I’m being honest, he’s never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with... he’s not a guy who was going to learn the craft without veteran mentorship. A lot of ice time and a lot of losing meant a lot of bad habits sunk in. By his last season in Carolina he was getting prone to unforced turnovers and brain-cramp moments in his zone. What should have been an extremely mature, developed player ended up being a guy who un-learned good habits.
At this point I’d still consider him a good 2nd pair option, he’s just not the minute muncher he could have been.
Its both highly unlikely and the thing that makes sense, which makes me think that we might be in the highly unlikely scenario?
Who are they trying to keep Seattle from taking by making Faulk appetizing? They will have to expose some guys from their 4th line, but its not like they are going to lose Thomas or something if they don't get Seattle to take Faulk.
Wallet Inspector
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2013
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It'll be a shame if Pietrangelo leaves. They're still a good team and he's their captain. Maybe he wants to play in Canada, idk.
- Apr 27, 2005
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He had maybe 2 decent seasons where he still seemed to care about defense and was able to shoot the puck. Then I think he started to believe the hype and instantly became a liability. I think he realized that in his final year in Carolina, but it was too late.
But like you said, he was never the brightest bulb, which is why I never saw him as anything more as than a 3/4 defenseman who could shoot. I never considered him an offensive defenseman because he was such a crappy playmaker / QB. And his defensive awareness was pretty crap, though he was a pretty competent 1-1 defender because of his athleticism and strength.
If I had to grade him at his peak
A- for shooting
D+ for playmaking
B+ for 1-1 defending
C- for positional defense
C for compete level
That's a C+ defenseman, so maybe slightly above average.
- Jan 17, 2018
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But Armstrong witnessed first-hand Faulk munching minutes. Faulk was on the top pairing in February/March of 2019. He was either first or second among D in TOI. During that stretch the Canes kept Crosby off the score sheet twice, McDavid once, and Seguin twice. The Canes defeated the Blues on 3/1/2019 when they were the two hottest teams in hockey. Faulk had 23:52 TOI, more than a minute more than any other Canes D.
With Faulk on the top pairing in February 2019, the Canes had 4 shutouts in 13 games (Dallas twice, Pittsburgh, and NYR). Faulk was both a minute muncher and arguably on the best defensive pair in the league.
Apparently, the Blues just need to find the right partner for a d-man who was close to dominant for a long stretch the previous season.
BruinsBtn
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2006
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These guys will all likely be available, or at least 4 of them: Perron, Blais, Barbashev, Scandella, Kyrou
The most pointless and puzzling ever? Not even close...
I am in the camp that the Blues werent expecting to resign Petro when the Faulk trade was made. The main reason i think this is they talked to Faulk about an extension right away, they extended Schenn early in the season, etc. but they allegedly didnt have a conversation with Petro's agent until like January? That makes zero sense, Petro should have been the first person on the list to resign yet they made multiple other signings before even having a conversation with Petro.
What other team would wait until January to have a conversation with their captain and star player?
Either they knew Petro was going to want substantially more than they were willing to give him or there was more going on in the background than we know about. It could be Petro has his cup so he wants to go home or wants to go somewhere with less pressure or many other things. Just seems like the Blues did not show any urgency to get something done. Or its possible they have/had other moves lines up that we have not seen play out. Maybe Steen is planning on retiring. Maybe Allen is going to get allergic to his equipment. Maybe there wasnt any urgency because Petro said Ill take whatever cap space is available
There are a lot of possibilities and Petro may stay in STL for the rest of his career, obviously Covid has changed everything, every team is going to have to alter their outlook for the next few seasons. I just keep coming back to the Blues not even engaging Petro until January
I am in the camp that the Blues werent expecting to resign Petro when the Faulk trade was made. The main reason i think this is they talked to Faulk about an extension right away, they extended Schenn early in the season, etc. but they allegedly didnt have a conversation with Petro's agent until like January? That makes zero sense, Petro should have been the first person on the list to resign yet they made multiple other signings before even having a conversation with Petro.
What other team would wait until January to have a conversation with their captain and star player?
Either they knew Petro was going to want substantially more than they were willing to give him or there was more going on in the background than we know about. It could be Petro has his cup so he wants to go home or wants to go somewhere with less pressure or many other things. Just seems like the Blues did not show any urgency to get something done. Or its possible they have/had other moves lines up that we have not seen play out. Maybe Steen is planning on retiring. Maybe Allen is going to get allergic to his equipment. Maybe there wasnt any urgency because Petro said Ill take whatever cap space is available
There are a lot of possibilities and Petro may stay in STL for the rest of his career, obviously Covid has changed everything, every team is going to have to alter their outlook for the next few seasons. I just keep coming back to the Blues not even engaging Petro until January
One More Salami
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2013
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PensPlz
Registered User
Given Seattle's Area name... It wouldn't shock me if they take the garbage of the league and attempt to recycle it.
MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
As other people have said, it was the extension that made no sense not the trade.
Even if they knew Petro was leaving it still doesn't make sense IMO. Faulk is not even remotely close to replacing what Petro brings and it seems like for the money you're paying Faulk + cap availability with no Petro they could have come up with a better option.
Even if they knew Petro was leaving it still doesn't make sense IMO. Faulk is not even remotely close to replacing what Petro brings and it seems like for the money you're paying Faulk + cap availability with no Petro they could have come up with a better option.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
The extension was the part of the trade I was talking about if your read my OP, I just didnt know to title it like that
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
If you’re going to look at it that way, you have to also note:
- The reason Faulk was ever on the ice against Crosby or McDavid was because he was skating next to Brett Pesce. Anyone who knows those two players, knows which of them was there to keep Crosby/McDavid in check. Rod also used Hamilton-Slavin as the counterpunch to opponents trying to get their guy away from Pesce. The Canes are uniquely positioned to make this work because they have two elite shutdown guys; other coaches aren’t in a position to shelter Faulk that way.
- As a result of the above, Faulk actually ended third in ES TOI in the Pittsburgh games, and fourth in the Edmonton game. His total TOI advantage came from having twice as much PP time as anyone else. That’s not “minute munching”, that’s a guy who’s being sheltered at ES and then force-fed PP opportunities.
- In the St Louis game, with the matchup advantage at home, the Canes matched Slavin-Hamilton against the Blues’ top line.
- We’re looking solely at the best stretch of hockey that the Canes had in the past decade. Cherry-picking that stretch ignores the fact that over a 3-year period Faulk went from a 15 goal, 40 point guy to more like a 10 goal, 30 point guy while gradually getting worse defensively. That stretch in Feb-Mar 2019, where he recaptured a little of the old magic in the context of having elite defensive babysitters, doesn’t offset three years of declining returns.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Comments from Doug Armstrong over the last couple of months indicate that Faulk is part of the Blues' core. He's been inconsistent but with a structured team like this there's a decent chance his form improves and makes a positive impact in the top two pairings and on the PP. Can never have too many quality RHD.
It was a bit of a strange move, but everyone in STL brass figured on the cap going up and Faulk playing at least to his average. The extension looks really bad now but if things were normal it would look fine.
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
- Nov 20, 2013
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Assuming he will get better as he gets more accustomed, it's still a decent trade. The extension might be much, but if he's a good player in their top 4 it's not the end of the world.
I checked out the numbers and their problem will be that they will have to find a way to move about 7 million in salary somehow. That's assuming Pietrangelo gets 9 million AAV.
So they have a problem. The obvious answer would be to make a move or two like Toronto's 2nd Marleau trade. Put up good picks for people to take just one year of a player. Bozak, Allen, Steen, Schwartz (not sure how valued each is to St. Louis). NTCs are in the way.
It's doable though. Give more responsibility to a Robert Thomas, Kyrou, ...
I checked out the numbers and their problem will be that they will have to find a way to move about 7 million in salary somehow. That's assuming Pietrangelo gets 9 million AAV.
So they have a problem. The obvious answer would be to make a move or two like Toronto's 2nd Marleau trade. Put up good picks for people to take just one year of a player. Bozak, Allen, Steen, Schwartz (not sure how valued each is to St. Louis). NTCs are in the way.
It's doable though. Give more responsibility to a Robert Thomas, Kyrou, ...
