Confirmed with Link: Wade Allison new contract 2x $785k

[tnfrs]

I bet these guys all regret playing in the AHL

jason robertson
roope hintz
matias maccelli
tage thompson
jordan kyrou
rasmus andersson
vince dunn
siegenthaler
roman josi

what a bunch of fkn scrubs huh.

 

[Starat327]

I see not much has changed. I'll stay in menu/soccer I think.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

And that's why Hathaway is good TDL trade bait, Flyers overpaid (so did Chicago, good players don't go to bad teams for love) but they can take a contract back to help a PO fit him under the cap.

4th line is different than the top three lines, you don't get regular shifts (Deslauriers plays about 4 shifts a period and maybe 3rd pair on the PK), and you rarely have a playmaker at center (b/c if he was good, he wouldn't be on the 4th line) so you have to hit the ice revved up and make things happen.

It's not a good situation to develop skills, and few teams have the depth and/or cap room to carry a 4th line player capable of playing up in the lineup. Which is why you see a team fill out their 4th line with cheap veteran specialists, either PK guys or occasionally a PP guy like Maroon,

For someone with top 6 potential, they're far better off playing big minutes in the AHL until a spot opens up. For one thing, it's unlikely they have much experience in a 4th line role at lower levels. And you want them polishing their offensive skills taking regular shits.

when GH is not traded what will the spin be?

4th line doesnt have to be different for a rebuilding team.

 

[Tripod]

I can't be bothered getting into this again today.

But the fact that we have to go back 16 years to find a draft success story that we helped in tge AHL(and that's debatable), speaks volumes.

There is a wide gap from Giroux to non NHLer. Where are the guys we "just" developed into reliable 3rd or 4th liners. Guys that spent a few years in the AHL getting better to eventually fill a depth roster spot. It's vacant.

Again, this not a Fletch thing. Or Hextall thing. It proceeds them. It's an organizational flaw that has not stressed prospect development in the AHL. If it was good, we would have had depth coming out the ass for years.

And for God's sake, how many times does it need to be said that this is not due to 1 guy, like Allison, or NAK. Just like how many times has it been said that Hathaway IS a good 4th liner. He damn well better be given he is being paid 2.35 million. The fact remains, that a REBUILDING team should not be building a 5.5 million dollar 4th line. Use that icetime to help develop fringe NHLers into reliable, cheap, depth pieces.

Hell, go look at Hathaway's path to the NHL. Spent part of 4 years in AHL with each year playing less AHL games and more NHL games to fully become a full time regular. That's development over time from an undrafted player. Meanwhile, we could not develop former 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, former WJC players, etc... into ANY depth pieces. Not one. Nada.

Anyways, hope you all have a great Thanksgiving today!! Canada rules!

 

[tnfrs]

I can't be bothered getting into this again today.

But the fact that we have to go back 16 years to find a draft success story that we helped in tge AHL(and that's debatable), speaks volumes.

There is a wide gap from Giroux to non NHLer. Where are the guys we "just" developed into reliable 3rd or 4th liners. Guys that spent a few years in the AHL getting better to eventually fill a depth roster spot. It's vacant.

Again, this not a Fletch thing. Or Hextall thing. It proceeds them. It's an organizational flaw that has not stressed prospect development in the AHL. If it was good, we would have had depth coming out the ass for years.

And for God's sake, how many times does it need to be said that this is not due to 1 guy, like Allison, or NAK. Just like how many times has it been said that Hathaway IS a good 4th liner. He damn well better be given he is being paid 2.35 million. The fact remains, that a REBUILDING team should not be building a 5.5 million dollar 4th line. Use that icetime to help develop fringe NHLers into reliable, cheap, depth pieces.

Hell, go look at Hathaway's path to the NHL. Spent part of 4 years in AHL with each year playing less AHL games and more NHL games to fully become a full time regular. That's development over time from an undrafted player. Meanwhile, we could not develop former 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, former WJC players, etc... into ANY depth pieces. Not one. Nada.

Anyways, hope you all have a great Thanksgiving today!! Canada rules!

lol how many players outside of the 1st round surpass expectations every year? lol youre all twisted up because the flyers didnt trade wayne simmonds to make room for NAK? how many years are you gonna carry that hurt around bro

 

[deadhead]

Use that icetime to help develop fringe NHLers into reliable, cheap, depth pieces.

Hell, go look at Hathaway's path to the NHL. Spent part of 4 years in AHL with each year playing less AHL games and more NHL games to fully become a full time regular. That's development over time from an undrafted player. Meanwhile, we could not develop former 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, former WJC players, etc... into ANY depth pieces. Not one. Nada.

Anyways, hope you all have a great Thanksgiving today!! Canada rules!

4 years in college
2014-15: 72 AHL games when he was 23
2015-16: 44 AHL games, 14g with Calgary
2016-17: 31 AHL, 26g with Calgary
2017-18: 18 AHL, 59g with Calgary
So 165 AHL games before he became a regular instead of an injury call-up.

 

[Tripod]

lol how many players outside of the 1st round surpass expectations every year? lol youre all twisted up because the flyers didnt trade wayne simmonds to make room for NAK? how many years are you gonna carry that hurt around bro

Wtf? You went off on a tangent...lol. enjoy your day!

 

[tnfrs]

Wtf? You went off on a tangent...lol. enjoy your day!

lol i already am

 

[Beef Invictus]

lol how many players outside of the 1st round surpass expectations every year? lol youre all twisted up because the flyers didnt trade wayne simmonds to make room for NAK? how many years are you gonna carry that hurt around bro

I see you didn't read his post.

 

[Beef Invictus]

4 years in college
2014-15: 72 AHL games when he was 23
2015-16: 44 AHL games, 14g with Calgary
2016-17: 31 AHL, 26g with Calgary
2017-18: 18 AHL, 59g with Calgary
So 165 AHL games before he became a regular instead of an injury call-up.

Time in the AHL is only useful if they're learning useful things. The Flyers don't do that.

 

[deadhead]

While player development could be better (which is why they've made a bunch of changes), I think the primary problem was drafting. And I think this was due to Holmgren/Hextall's philosophy, which overrated size relative to speed and skill.

So they overdrafted players like Ratcliffe, Allison, Hagg, Ginning, Goul, Dove-McFalls, Twarynski in the top 100. The fact they found players like Lindblom, Cates, Laczynski, Ersson later in the draft suggests the scouting was fine, it was the drafters who were at fault (later in the draft scouts tend to be more important than GMs, b/c GMs don't have time to look at 300 players).

I think Flahr has improved there, Bump 5th, Southeran 5th, McDonald 6th, Samson 6th, Mann & Sulku 7th, still taking size, but at more appropriate spots in the draft.

When you bet you can take a big guy and improve his skating and puck handling, you shouldn't be betting big money.

 

[GKJ]

 

[zizbuka]

I bet these guys all regret playing in the AHL

jason robertson
roope hintz
matias maccelli
tage thompson
jordan kyrou
rasmus andersson
vince dunn
siegenthaler
roman josi

what a bunch of fkn scrubs huh.

They played for the Phantoms? Man, I need to pay better attention.........

 

[deadhead]

Let's be honest about Allison, he started 60 games last year, primarily with Hayes, then Cates and Frost as his centers. He was not a 4th liner. 9th in ES minutes at 12:36.
He got a clear shot at winning a starting job. He was meh, 9-6 15 in those 60 games.

Then in TC, he was "OK," didn't stand out, wasn't nearly as impressive as Foerster and Brink.

Even though he's minimum wage, no one claimed him on waivers, any PO team could have fit him under the cap (just send someone else down, in many cases that would create cap room since you can shelter $1.25M sending a more expensive veteran to the AHL).

He's 26, at this point in his career he's a marginal 4th line forward. Like Laczynski, dings have sapped some of his skill, but you have to question whether there's much more there. It's up to him to show there is.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Let's be honest about Allison, he started 60 games last year, primarily with Hayes, then Cates and Frost as his centers. He was not a 4th liner. 9th in ES minutes at 12:36.
He got a clear shot at winning a starting job. He was meh, 9-6 15 in those 60 games.

Then in TC, he was "OK," didn't stand out, wasn't nearly as impressive as Foerster and Brink.

Even though he's minimum wage, no one claimed him on waivers, any PO team could have fit him under the cap (just send someone else down, in many cases that would create cap room since you can shelter $1.25M sending a more expensive veteran to the AHL).

He's 26, at this point in his career he's a marginal 4th line forward. Like Laczynski, dings have sapped some of his skill, but you have to question whether there's much more there. It's up to him to show there is.

yes they could have waived ND and saved cap space which they could use down the line no? Keeping ND accomplishes nothing and hurts the team.

not sure many will disagree with your assessment of allison. Just the process.

 

[renberg]

Sometimes Tortorella would do better to just shut his mouth than to utter the inane things that he often does. Allison to "play better" is one of those moments. Play better like how? Better passing? Better shooting? Better defensively? Better with/without the puck? If you're not going to say what you want a guy to improve, then being quiet is a better tactic. Cracking off about toilet seats and the such makes no sense.
However here is a problem with the Flyers player development. When a player gets sent down to LHV, it's obvious that there are areas of their game that need to improve. Fine. Who down there is capable of working with a player to improve on their deficiencies? What often happens is the guys get sent down there and nothing changes with their play. When they get back up it's more of the same. Good organizations have coaches in the minors that are capable of bringing better play out of their players by improving them in specific areas of their games. I don''t see that in the Flyers organization right now.

 

[Jettany]

yes they could have waived ND and saved cap space which they could use down the line no? Keeping ND accomplishes nothing and hurts the team.

not sure many will disagree with your assessment of allison. Just the process.

That’s if he was claimed. Argument seems to be he is worse than guys like Allison, Kubel etc so with a higher salary I can’t see how he would be claimed.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

That’s if he was claimed. Argument seems to be he is worse than guys like Allison, Kubel etc so with a higher salary I can’t see how he would be claimed.

doesnt matter if he was claimed. you save money by sending him down. Plus his great vet leadership would be an asset for lappy.

 

[deadhead]

Flyers don't need to save money, they have $1.65M in cap room plus Ellis' LTIR money.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Sometimes Tortorella would do better to just shut his mouth than to utter the inane things that he often does. Allison to "play better" is one of those moments. Play better like how? Better passing? Better shooting? Better defensively? Better with/without the puck? If you're not going to say what you want a guy to improve, then being quiet is a better tactic. Cracking off about toilet seats and the such makes no sense.
However here is a problem with the Flyers player development. When a player gets sent down to LHV, it's obvious that there are areas of their game that need to improve. Fine. Who down there is capable of working with a player to improve on their deficiencies? What often happens is the guys get sent down there and nothing changes with their play. When they get back up it's more of the same. Good organizations have coaches in the minors that are capable of bringing better play out of their players by improving them in specific areas of their games. I don''t see that in the Flyers organization right now.

I’d like to believe these conversations happen in the locker room, but I don’t know

 

[renberg]

I’d like to believe these conversations happen in the locker room, but I don’t know

Fine. Hopefully they did. Tortorella should say that instead of popping off with "He needs to get better."

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Flyers don't need to save money, they have $1.65M in cap room plus Ellis' LTIR money.

all teams can use to save money. Lame excuse. More you have more you can have to use at your disposal.

Doesnt cap space accumulate or something that?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Fine. Hopefully they did. Tortorella should say that instead of popping off with "He needs to get better."

No I genuinely don't know, it wasn't sarcastic - Torts is the weirdest human ever.

Sometimes his honesty is refreshing and I agree with what he says - and then it seems like he doesn't communicate anything to his players. Apparently him and Sanehim had a good conversation after the failed trade talks this summer and vowed to communicate better with each other or something....imo - I think Torts didn't hold his end of the bargain last year on this.

You hear stories about players saying he's a good man who is obsessed with details, obsessed with film, obsessed with coaching and improving...and you hear other players feel like they aren't being given any time with him and can't get a line of communication even if they are putting in the hours. Why is this?

Honestly - my read on Torts is this...

He's a good coach, but throws fits and freezes guys out who aren't "his type of player", which I'm not sure exactly what that is. He likes speed, skill, and toughness, but also likes dinosaur fighters, and gritty players with no value. If he could just adapt a little bit to the new game, and realize he needs to grow up and communicate better with kids born in the 2000s, this team will be in a better place come May 2024.

He can be useful and help this franchise, but he's too damn stubborn and will eventually be canned for it.

 

[deadhead]

No I genuinely don't know, it wasn't sarcastic - Torts is the weirdest human ever.

Sometimes his honesty is refreshing and I agree with what he says - and then it seems like he doesn't communicate anything to his players. Apparently him and Sanehim had a good conversation after the failed trade talks this summer and vowed to communicate better with each other or something....imo - I think Torts didn't hold his end of the bargain last year on this.

You hear stories about players saying he's a good man who is obsessed with details, obsessed with film, obsessed with coaching and improving...and you hear other players feel like they aren't being given any time with him and can't get a line of communication even if they are putting in the hours. Why is this?

Honestly - my read on Torts is this...

He's a good coach, but throws fits and freezes guys out who aren't "his type of player", which I'm not sure exactly what that is. He likes speed, skill, and toughness, but also likes dinosaur fighters, and gritty players with no value. If he could just adapt a little bit to the new game, and realize he needs to grow up and communicate better with kids born in the 2000s, this team will be in a better place come May 2024.

He can be useful and help this franchise, but he's too damn stubborn and will eventually be canned for it.

He's stubborn and a bit tactless, but also his reputation for being an asshole is inflated, unlike AV, who was worse than his reputation.

Torts knows what he wants, and I think like a lot of HCs, he tunes out players after repeated attempts to "fix them." TDA is a good example, they were patient with him, put him with Seeler for a time to protect him, but zero progress. Kid may have been trying too hard to impress his "homies" and wouldn't cut back on his overplay. Hayes was set in his ways, and may simply have lacked the speed to get back on defense at center and wasn't willing to commit to playing on the wing.

I think Torts would have been fine with say Ghost, they would have clashed, he would have benched him, then put him back in the lineup, and finally worked out things, like he has with Sanheim, who got stronger over the summer and so far has been more assertive on the ice. He pushed Frost, but when Frost did what he wanted, Torts gave him 2nd line minutes (exact same as Cates). He gave Allison almost a full season to show he was a top 9 player. He even gave Lemieux a shot.

I don't think Torts is big on fighters, but he does stress physical play along the boards, energy on the forecheck and backcheck, and don't be stupid. He wants players to be aggressive, but also know their responsibilities (i.e. cycle back when your D-man attacks the O-zone to cover for him). I think the style he wants the Flyers to play is similar to Carolina and the Pens (Sullivan is his protege).

 

[Fire Tortorella]

all teams can use to save money. Lame excuse. More you have more you can have to use at your disposal.

Doesnt cap space accumulate or something that?

If I remember correctly - cap space only accumulates if you're not using LTIR. Since we are, that doesn't' apply.