Value of: Vladimir Tarasenko

[BlueDream]

edmontopn doesnt have the cap space and the blues wouldnt wanna take back much salary.

If edmonton did free up some space I'd imagine it would be Bouchard+Broberg+Pulju+1st kind of deal

Not that I see the Blues dealing Tarasenko anyways, but if they did, I can't see them targeting defense prospects.

Regardless of how good the prospects may be, the Blues' blueline is stacked with Petro, Parayko, Faulk, Dunn, Scandella and they have 2 solid prospects on the way in Perunovich and Mikkola. It's a group that's all in their prime and doesn't need much adding to it.

Surely if we traded Tarasenko, we'd be targeting a forward that can help replace him. Therefore I don't think these 2 teams wouldn't be good trade partners.

 

[simon IC]

Tarasenko for Matt Tkachuk?

 

[simon IC]

Not that I see the Blues dealing Tarasenko anyways, but if they did, I can't see them targeting defense prospects.

Regardless of how good the prospects may be, the Blues' blueline is stacked with Petro, Parayko, Faulk, Dunn, Scandella and they have 2 solid prospects on the way in Perunovich and Mikkola. It's a group that's all in their prime and doesn't need much adding to it.

Surely if we traded Tarasenko, we'd be targeting a forward that can help replace him. Therefore I don't think these 2 teams wouldn't be good trade partners.

I am not so sure of that. Pietrangelo could be gone in a matter of months. Parayko has two years left before he is UFA. Bortuzzo is a year away from UFA. Faulk, ... yeah, what freakin' ever. We don't need RD immediately, but it would be a good thing if we had a decent RD prospect who is a couple of years away.

 

[Mike Liut]

Tarasenko for Matt Tkachuk?

I’m in

 

[BlueDream]

I am not so sure of that. Pietrangelo could be gone in a matter of months. Parayko has two years left before he is UFA. Bortuzzo is a year away from UFA. Faulk, ... yeah, what freakin' ever. We don't need RD immediately, but it would be a good thing if we had a decent RD prospect who is a couple of years away.

The reason for this thread though is to field offers for Tarasenko in case we needed to clear cap room for Pietrangelo.

If Pietrangelo walks, why would we even be entertaining the thought of moving Vladdy? There’s no way this teams sees them both leave a year after winning the Cup. If they do, Armstrong should be drug tested.

 

[Anthony5967]

Fair value would be: Top-6 forward (~3M caphit) + 1st round pick + Blue-Chip prospect.

And that is based on a healthy Tarasenko at 100%

Buchnevich+1st (CAR)+Blue-chip prospect (Miller?)

 

[Chayos]

edmontopn doesnt have the cap space and the blues wouldnt wanna take back much salary.

If edmonton did free up some space I'd imagine it would be Bouchard+Broberg+Pulju+1st kind of deal

not in this life time. take out bouchard

 

[Kshahdoo]

To NJ: Bratt + late 1st for Tarasenko

 

[simon IC]

Buchnevich+1st (CAR)+Blue-chip prospect (Miller?)

That is actually a reasonable offer.

 

[simon IC]

To NJ: Bratt + late 1st for Tarasenko

Not enough.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Not nearly enough.

Bratt is soon-to-be 22, who scored 16 goals in 60 games (he scored 8+8 in the last 20 games, playing with Gusev) vs Tarasenko, who didn't play for about a year in his last 2 seasons... There is a chance Bratt is going to be as good as Tarasenko in a year or two, but Tarasenko is bigger and can help NJ with his size. And it's STL, that needs cap space to resign Pietrangelo.

I think, late 1st is a good addition to Bratt to get Vlad. I'm not a NJ fan, though, so not sure NJ fans will love the trade. The team is rebuilding after all, so they probably value young players and futures high.

 

[Beauterham]

Buchnevich+1st (CAR)+Blue-chip prospect (Miller?)

I'm really not a fan of K'André Miller. If you include a prospect in the deal, I'd rather it be Nils Lundkvist.

 

[simon IC]

Bratt is soon-to-be 22, who scored 16 goals in 60 games (he scored 8+8 in the last 20 games, playing with Gusev) vs Tarasenko, who didn't play for about a year in his last 2 seasons... There is a chance Bratt is going to be as good as Tarasenko in a year or two, but Tarasenko is bigger and can help NJ with his size. And it's STL, that needs cap space to resign Pietrangelo.

I think, late 1st is a good addition to Bratt to get Vlad. I'm not a NJ fan, though, so not sure NJ fans will love the trade. The team is rebuilding after all, so they probably value young players and futures high.

Sorry, they can keep their under-sized "might be". I would rather hang on to our proven, elite winger. A late 1st is an insult for a player of Tarasenko's caliber. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Beauterham]

Bratt is soon-to-be 22, who scored 16 goals in 60 games (he scored 8+8 in the last 20 games, playing with Gusev) vs Tarasenko, who didn't play for about a year in his last 2 seasons... There is a chance Bratt is going to be as good as Tarasenko in a year or two, but Tarasenko is bigger and can help NJ with his size. And it's STL, that needs cap space to resign Pietrangelo.

I think, late 1st is a good addition to Bratt to get Vlad. I'm not a NJ fan, though, so not sure NJ fans will love the trade. The team is rebuilding after all, so they probably value young players and futures high.

I like Bratt, but I really don't view him as high as you apparantly do. I wouldn't mind adding him to the deal, but not as the main piece. Plus Tarasenko indeed missed a lot of games due to injury this season, but he's fit again and ready to start in the Playoffs. Before this season he hardly missed any games in the previous seasons. He's not a injury liability or anything like that.

If you look at the Rangers offer, they want to deal a first, a good young roster player and a blue chip prospect. I think that's a good starting point to start a discussion.
Translated to the Devils, we could start with Arizona + Vancouvers 1st + Blue chip prospect/Bratt/other good young roster player + something smaller and round it out from there.

 

[simon IC]

I like Bratt, but I really don't view him as high as you apparantly do. I wouldn't mind adding him to the deal, but not as the main piece. Plus Tarasenko indeed missed a lot of games due to injury this season, but he's fit again and ready to start in the Playoffs. Before this season he hardly missed any games in the previous seasons. He's not a injury liability or anything like that.

If you look at the Rangers offer, they want to deal a first, a good young roster player and a blue chip prospect. I think that's a good starting point to start a discussion.
Translated to the Devils, we could start with Arizona + Vancouvers 1st + Blue chip prospect/Bratt/other good young roster player + something smaller and round it out from there.

Kevin Bahl?

 

[Beauterham]

Kevin Bahl?

Could be. After a quick scan on the Devils' elite prospects page, there aren't a lot of other intriguing prospects (Devils mostly picked high, so guys like Hughes and Hisschier are, obviously, not included). Don't really know what to make of Reilly Walsh, I prefer he's a righty, but don't know how to rate him. Ty Smith seems nice too, although he's ready to step up to (at least) the AHL and we already have Perunovich, Mikkola and Walman in the same position. Bahl is 'further away', which I prefer at the moment for a lefty.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I like Bratt, but I really don't view him as high as you apparantly do. I wouldn't mind adding him to the deal, but not as the main piece. Plus Tarasenko indeed missed a lot of games due to injury this season, but he's fit again and ready to start in the Playoffs. Before this season he hardly missed any games in the previous seasons. He's not a injury liability or anything like that.

If you look at the Rangers offer, they want to deal a first, a good young roster player and a blue chip prospect. I think that's a good starting point to start a discussion.
Translated to the Devils, we could start with Arizona + Vancouvers 1st + Blue chip prospect/Bratt/other good young roster player + something smaller and round it out from there.

Yeah, here are some questions: will Bratt keep progressing as fast as he did in the last season? How will the 2nd in a row shoulder injury affect Tarasenko's shot, which is his main weapon (not that Tarasenko is bad on other hockey aspects, but with out his shot he isn't that elite)? So there are question marks in the trade, you can't remove right now, but most trades look this way.

 

[Beauterham]

Yeah, here are some questions: will Bratt keep progressing as fast as he did in the last season? How will the 2nd in a row shoulder injury affect Tarasenko's shot, which is his main weapon (not that Tarasenko is bad on other hockey aspects, but with out his shot he isn't that elite)? So there are question marks in the trade, you can't remove right now, but most trades look this way.

I agree, there are a lot of 'if's'. But that's hockey, there aren't a lot of certainties. You may be right, Bratt might develop into a player that is on Tarasenko's level. On the other hand, he also might already have reached his ceiling. Tarasenko might regress due to his shoulder injury, on the other hand he also might score 50 next season next to a guy who has elite playmaking skills (Robert Thomas?). There is no way to predict the future, but there's a way bigger chance that Tarasenko is still going to be one of the best wingers in the NHL in the near future and Bratt is a good middle 6 winger. We can't do a deal now anyway (I don't even want to trade Tarasenko in the first place!), so lets just see how he performs in the playoffs, if he still shows he's the old Tarasenko his value is still going to be very high and we could circle back after the playoffs.

BTW, Tarasenko has more then just an elite shot. He's way more rounded. He's actually a really good two-way forward, good playmaker, good on the boards, knows how to protect the puck. Earlier on, his weakness was his defensive play, but he's improved that a lot over the last couple of seasons. Even if he just 'had an average shot', he would still be a really really good player.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I agree, there are a lot of 'if's'. But that's hockey, there aren't a lot of certainties. You may be right, Bratt might develop into a player that is on Tarasenko's level. On the other hand, he also might already have reached his ceiling. Tarasenko might regress due to his shoulder injury, on the other hand he also might score 50 next season next to a guy who has elite playmaking skills (Robert Thomas?). There is no way to predict the future, but there's a way bigger chance that Tarasenko is still going to be one of the best wingers in the NHL in the near future and Bratt is a good middle 6 winger. We can't do a deal now anyway (I don't even want to trade Tarasenko in the first place!), so lets just see how he performs in the playoffs, if he still shows he's the old Tarasenko his value is still going to be very high and we could circle back after the playoffs.

BTW, Tarasenko has more then just an elite shot. He's way more rounded. He's actually a really good two-way forward, good playmaker, good on the boards, knows how to protect the puck. Earlier on, his weakness was his defensive play, but he's improved that a lot over the last couple of seasons. Even if he just 'had an average shot', he would still be a really really good player.

I know, who's he, I've been following him since he was 16. Actually, I'd say, he doesn't look as good as I thought he would, when he just came to the league. Him and Kuznetsov were considered the next superstars of Russian hockey, but now Panarin is clearly ahead of both of them.

To me, it's probably because Vlad's injuries has already started to affect his game. As we saw many times, injuries can turn an elite player into his washed out shadow in just a couple years (Benn, Karlsson etc), so trading Tarasenko could be a pretty good and timely move for STL.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

1991 born, yet has played only just over 500 games in the NHL.

Has never scored 80 points in his career, one time 40 goal scorer
- thou has scored 30 or more goals, 4 times, ( 5 when you count the 40 goal season ).

His last 82 game season is 16-17 season

Is a good, stellar player, nothing that special, can still probably score 30+ goals and 60-65 points in a full(ish) season, or close to it.
- at the moment thou, i don't see much value. 7,5 cap hit for a player who can score 30+ goals and 60+ points...
not without taking back some of that cap hit

A top prospect and a pick perhaps?
- there are much cheaper, younger 30 goal 60 point players in today's NHL, who just are better what Tarasenko

 

[Robtom18]

First thing that needs to be said: TARA goes nowhere at present. Blues move other assets for cap space. That said, as a courtesy to poster to consider his scenario,

NY can help with SHORT TERM cap flexibility, but only at acceptable price which IMO is Broberg or bust....

Package deal: [as is, even though can be broken into 2 sep deals]
combined overview
Deangelo rfa deal pending = 0
Buch = 3.25 thru next season
Geo = starting rfa deal pending = 0
Andersson = elc .894,166
Smith = 4.35 x 2, ny retains 1.35 = net 3.0
later NY 2020 1st [20OA ish from CAR or TOR via CAR]
total cap for deal purposes is 7.494,166, tho EDM will need around 5ish for Dea + 2ish for Geo
for
Broberg elc .925 x3
Neal = 5.75 x4
(Kris) Russell = 4 x 2
Pulj elc, not listed on CapFriendly
EDM 2022 2nd [Oil does not have 2020 or 2021 2nd]
EDM 2021 1st no restrictions
total cap 10.675 + elc on Pulj, ballpark 11.5
Cap Result of above = EDM sends about 11.5, takes back almost 7.5, ballpark 4m cap relief
rationale:
EDM wins huge on Buch for Neal, multiple yrs (structural) cap relief
Russell full pop for Smith reduced saves 1m; also Smith can be dumped in A, or reduced 1.35, can be more easily moved or more cheaply bought out than Russell
small win on Geo at cost of Pulj.
[Smith is expiring. Geo is younger and cheaper than Koskinen (31 + 4.5m), Sure, one will have to be exp in upcoming exp draft but that is cost of having adequate depth for Cup run. Remains to be seen both pushing each other who will play better, but Geo cheaper and younger is signif.]
Win on 2020 1st being made available now in deep draft for reimbursement 1st a year later.
Win to pick ‘em on Broberg v Deangelo.
Dea will cost more right away, but is a finished product immediate plug n play, unclear Broberg steps in day 1 or upcoming season or needs more time.
Oil likely protect Deangelo + Klefbom + Nurse in exp dr
concession loss on elc Andersson for 2022 2nd, but not by much; Lias current value is about a current 3rd +, and this pick is 2 years delayed
Rangers
get exp exempt LD Broberg
add a 2022 2nd
punt sacrifice later mid 2020 pick for 2021 1st, which is a mid level downgrade for a pick in a deep draft for something one year delayed in presum not as good draft. NY could get lucky and Oil have injuries, bad year, = lottery pick; however, odds against that.
get interesting x factor in Pulj who is a maybe, not a given, but possible upside while moving on from Lias
are better strategized cap wise going forward
explanation:
Neal can be showcased on 2nd line w/Kreider + Zib, see if that clicks or not, and possibly/not solid w/retain. Or to SEA, either as selection outright or as part of a deal given to SEA to take a schlub w/their selection.
Ditto Russell. NYR LDs will be Lindgren Hajek and Staal/Russell. Staal is expiring.
Use our projected compliance buyout on guy w/term, possibly Neal but Neal maybe swapped for worse contract + desirable assets bribe, (e.g. CHI for Keith or Seabrook) then use compliance on deal with more money/term
Neal is not long to stay here but hopefully Pulj is improved and we get 3-4 good years out of him

------------
Now what does that have to do with this thread/above post?

post intended to move Neal + Russell, and mine advises how OIL can do so w/out buy out and getting positive assets in return [at cost of Broberg].

also creates an option for Buchnevich to StL to defray loss of Tara production, or Oil offer something else and use both Tara + Buch for mo depth, firepower.

Buch on his current 3.25 retained by Oil send him to Blues for 2m ish and heavy futures could work.

Ummmm no thanks.

 

[Robtom18]

1991 born, yet has played only just over 500 games in the NHL.

Has never scored 80 points in his career, one time 40 goal scorer
- thou has scored 30 or more goals, 4 times, ( 5 when you count the 40 goal season ).

His last 82 game season is 16-17 season

Is a good, stellar player, nothing that special, can still probably score 30+ goals and 60-65 points in a full(ish) season, or close to it.
- at the moment thou, i don't see much value. 7,5 cap hit for a player who can score 30+ goals and 60+ points...
not without taking back some of that cap hit

A top prospect and a pick perhaps?
- there are much cheaper, younger 30 goal 60 point players in today's NHL, who just are better what Tarasenko

If the blues played a high scoring game style like edm he would be a 40 goal scorer every year probably more. The blues defensive system hampers his game a bit.

 

[topshelf15]

No thank you kind sir.

We will take one Alexis Lafreniere tho please and thank you

or Chabot

Yeah we cant afford him lol....Its not time for our team to do this type of deal,great player though

 

[Tryblot]

1991 born, yet has played only just over 500 games in the NHL.

Has never scored 80 points in his career, one time 40 goal scorer
- thou has scored 30 or more goals, 4 times, ( 5 when you count the 40 goal season ).

His last 82 game season is 16-17 season

Is a good, stellar player, nothing that special, can still probably score 30+ goals and 60-65 points in a full(ish) season, or close to it.
- at the moment thou, i don't see much value. 7,5 cap hit for a player who can score 30+ goals and 60+ points...
not without taking back some of that cap hit

A top prospect and a pick perhaps?
- there are much cheaper, younger 30 goal 60 point players in today's NHL, who just are better what Tarasenko

Im curious how you rate William nylander?

 

[Robtom18]

Isles 1st round pick, Drake Batherson and Colin White.

No thanks from Edmonton now if you want to talk a lesser price than the cost of Tarasenko and switch the player to Schwartz I’m all ears

Why would blues do that. Teams don't just trade players like Schwartz and tarasenko