Timing in life is everything, and the Knights are just better at it.
Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.
- Thread starter Mez
- Start date
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,242
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OK, that's the problem you want to solve.
Teams shouldn't be "significantly over the cap based on accured space." This happens every year. Every year. Teams accrue cap space via LTIR, use that to go get other players. Some end up in the playoffs. Some don't. Right now, a little over half the league is supposedly using LTIR for cap space, and at least Florida and Edmonton used LTIR at some point in the season to be over the cap. [A question on what "significantly" means is omitted.]
We're going to make teams take players off LTIR and put them on IR at some point before the regular season - like, a few games prior. You're ... not solving the problem you claim exists with this idea. You're pinching teams into a position where now they're forced to get "cap compliant" [presumably by summing up everyone's cap hits and ensuring it's under the cap, whether there was previously savings or not; I'll let you clarify if there's an exception for what had previously been permissible savings] under a different set of rules than existed for much of the season, where now there's no cap exception allowed and everyone on the active roster + IR has to fit cleanly under the cap.
Yeah, even the guys pretty obviously on LTIR who aren't playing in the playoffs at all even if half the existing roster gets hurt. A team like Toronto would be utterly f***ed this season, since it would now have to fit back in a little over $16.5 million in cap hit that's currently on LTIR and attributable to guys who are 99.99999999% likely not to play the first minute in this postseason - $16.5 million that it utilized to add other players currently on the roster, who are currently able and eligible to play in this year's playoffs.
Oh, well it's just the guys that a team wants to use in the playoffs. So, teams have to make a prospective declaration of who may or may not be playing in the playoffs, which implicitly means
* Anyone previously on LTIR, now named to this IR but may be able to play list has to fit under the cap along with everyone on the active roster - which means guys are getting waived / assigned outside the NHL to fit ... which means an opposing team with sufficient cap space could be a complete dick and claim the guy and hold him, thus making him ineligible for the other team for the postseason even if he's also ineligible for their team for the postseason ... which, he would be since he was acquired after the trade deadline when roster eligibility was set
* For a team like Colorado, if it wants Landeskog available just in case he might be able to play or might be needed to play, it has to fit him under the cap right now to the likely exclusion of others,
* For a team like Vancouver, it has to have Demko off now (probably a couple games back) even if he's still not ready to play, again to the potential exclusion of others,
* anyone not on the may be able to play list is prohibited from playing in the playoffs even if they happen to be ready and able (and needed)
There are so many non-starters there, it's hard to pick one to start with. But suffice it to say, you're creating more problems than you're really solving.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
It's always funny when people talk about titles being tainted and they think fans of that team like, actually care.
If the Rangers won the Cup because everyone else in the tournament got Ebola, I'm 100% wearing the T-shirt.
If the Rangers won the Cup because everyone else in the tournament got Ebola, I'm 100% wearing the T-shirt.
If there is a problem, it is the stark divide that exists on this issue between most NHL fans (there are always exceptions) and ownership. The league office pulses the GMs and the owners pretty regularly on whether they have issues with the LTIR regulations, especially come playoff time, and are interested in changing them.
They have so far resisted the idea that there is a problem they need to solve, arguing that in practice it is working about how they envisioned it in the first place. Fans and owners are far apart. You wonder if there comes a tipping point, but there's no sign of one right now.
They have so far resisted the idea that there is a problem they need to solve, arguing that in practice it is working about how they envisioned it in the first place. Fans and owners are far apart. You wonder if there comes a tipping point, but there's no sign of one right now.
I get a kick out of people crying about Vegas playing within the rules.
Should they close this loophole? Yeah. Are they cheating? Nope. They aren’t forcing their players to get hurt seriously enough to legitimately land on LTIR.
I respect the hustle and their business model works.
Should they close this loophole? Yeah. Are they cheating? Nope. They aren’t forcing their players to get hurt seriously enough to legitimately land on LTIR.
I respect the hustle and their business model works.
nhlfan9191
Registered User
- Aug 4, 2010
- 19,675
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I have a feeling if it was Winnipeg, not Vegas or a sunbelt team that this would’ve been corrected in someway already.
Roomba With a Bauer
Registered User
- Sep 11, 2007
- 4,343
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The average NHL owner cares more about revenue sharing and profits than winning now, which is a major part of what's wrong with hockey.
If Stone is currently healthy enough to play, or healthy enough to play in Game 82, they are by definition cheating.
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
- 55,742
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If it was Winnipeg there would be much less online whining, but no, the CBA would not have been amended to change the salary cap rules.
How'd that work in 2022?
LTIR is fine but the teams should not be allowed to use Dr. Nick as the specialist confirming the injury.
The Jets should have beaten Vegas in that WCF but they didn't for some reason not related to the Cap.
The Jets should have beaten Vegas in that WCF but they didn't for some reason not related to the Cap.
People who say "your team should use LTIR to your advantage" or "it's available for all teams" completely misses the point as to what it's supposed to represent. It's not meant to be an advantageous thing so much as a damage control contingency.
Thallis
No half measures
They didn't make the playoffs in 2022 and the roster wasn't over the cap in 2023
- Oct 7, 2006
- 5,396
- 6,190
The on-ice roster was never over the cap but they benefited from having a deeper team. Sure would have been nice when Florida was limping into the finals if they could've dressed better depth players.
WhataKnight
The KnightMan Cometh!
- Jan 6, 2023
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You know……even as a Knights fan I can’t help but look at this as a tad “sus.” More than a tad.
I still say anyone pissed at the Knights needs to save it for the LEAGUE that allowed this contingency to both exist and persist.
The NHL didn’t do anything about this methodology after Chicago/Kane, and due to the CBA - they couldn’t; therefore there was no chance to stomp it flat with TB/Kucherov. And since they couldn’t & didn’t…….essentially it leaked the blueprints on how to make a Godzilla Roster for any GM working for a “deep pockets” owner willing to kick decorum to the wayside.
This isn’t to say “don’t hate the player, hate the game”, but I look forward to the next ratified CBA slamming all the katzenjammer shut by way of a better answer than the “problem-generating solutions” tossed around in forums like this.
I wasn’t mad at Chicago doing it; I wasn’t mad at Tampa doing it. I’m not going to be mad if Edmonton does it next year and uses it to flatten the hell out of the West - these conditions have been here since 2013.
What I will do is hope that the next CBA is both flexible and league-encompassing, so we get more TDLs like this year, more player movement, and more front offices willing to lead the charge from the front lines with more displays of “we came for the f***ing Cup” matching the efforts on the ice.
I still say anyone pissed at the Knights needs to save it for the LEAGUE that allowed this contingency to both exist and persist.
The NHL didn’t do anything about this methodology after Chicago/Kane, and due to the CBA - they couldn’t; therefore there was no chance to stomp it flat with TB/Kucherov. And since they couldn’t & didn’t…….essentially it leaked the blueprints on how to make a Godzilla Roster for any GM working for a “deep pockets” owner willing to kick decorum to the wayside.
This isn’t to say “don’t hate the player, hate the game”, but I look forward to the next ratified CBA slamming all the katzenjammer shut by way of a better answer than the “problem-generating solutions” tossed around in forums like this.
I wasn’t mad at Chicago doing it; I wasn’t mad at Tampa doing it. I’m not going to be mad if Edmonton does it next year and uses it to flatten the hell out of the West - these conditions have been here since 2013.
What I will do is hope that the next CBA is both flexible and league-encompassing, so we get more TDLs like this year, more player movement, and more front offices willing to lead the charge from the front lines with more displays of “we came for the f***ing Cup” matching the efforts on the ice.
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Folignos Helmet
Registered User
- Sep 4, 2020
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WhataKnight
The KnightMan Cometh!
- Jan 6, 2023
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I never got way into online versus gaming on anything like Halo.
That said, I can’t help but think of how it must of been the first time someone realized they could use grenades fired at the ground to launch themselves to otherwise-inaccessible places and snipe competition from the least expected vantage point.
Yes, it’s abuse of a contingency, and I’m not even arguing that……but it’s also within the “physics” of the environment.
That said, I can’t help but think of how it must of been the first time someone realized they could use grenades fired at the ground to launch themselves to otherwise-inaccessible places and snipe competition from the least expected vantage point.
Yes, it’s abuse of a contingency, and I’m not even arguing that……but it’s also within the “physics” of the environment.
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
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No, there is nothing in the CBA that would allow a doctor or league executive to force a player to play in a game before the player wanted to. And there never will be.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,242
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Maybe the guy ... you may want to sit down before you read the rest of this, .....
...
...
...
... gets checked before Game 82 by the league's doctors, who attest he's injured and can't play.
And, perhaps - and again, this is spitballing here - Stone then decides to play in the playoffs AMA. Which, as a player, it's his right to do, but it's not the team's right to force him to play if he's still injured and a doctor checks him out and says he can't play.
And/or, if the team's doctor says he can play, the player has a right to a second opinion.
And/or, if the 2nd doctor says he can't play, then the two sides agree on a 3rd doctor who makes the final determination.
This sums up the vast, vast majority of "solutions" fans have.
- Oct 7, 2006
- 5,396
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So? Other teams deal with this too. Ekblad got hurt the day right after the trade deadline and may be back for game 1, but who really knows. If he got hurt a day before? Florida could have used the cap space. Its just so random.
Well, exploiting too much a loophole may actually be considered cheating, didn't the NHL actually punish teams for explointing the "backloaded contracts loophole" in the past?
Vegas07
Registered User
- Dec 6, 2018
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My point is his cap hit is almost as big as the Mark Stone cap hit so it would be kind of funny if Stone comes back and he doesn’t.
Still think he will come back though.
- Oct 7, 2006
- 5,396
- 6,190
Well good thing for you guys you were able to trade for Hanifin because Stone got hurt. But can't wait for people to come out and say how the Vegas iced roster is under the cap and there was no benefit.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 11,756
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They don’t have to be forced onto the ice, just forced off LTIR. Healthy scratch them if they don’t want to play a game they’re able to play.
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