Proposal: Vancouver - Toronto

[member 147413]

I want out of Zaitsev’s contract because it takes away some flexibility for us, but losing him is a tough hole to fill despite what some may think. I don’t think his contract is preposterous for a team like Vancouver, I don’t think he’s being utilized fairly or properly by Babcock, I think he has more to give but it won’t be in Toronto.

 

[garyturner3]

No reason for the leafs or the nucks to do this.
I'd rather trade Gardiner for stretcher and keep Zaitsev.

Say what??? Gardiner would obviously return much, much more than Stecher....

 

[Tit]

Say what??? Gardiner would obviously return much, much more than Stecher....

Agreed.
But he's probably going to walk for nothing, so Gardiner for stecher + is better than nothing at all.

Dermott is ready, so might as well cash in on whatever Gardiner can get you in a rental capacity.
The point was I'd rather not trade from the weak side.
Trading Zaitsev would be disastrous to our RHD.

 

[Critical13]

I strongly dislike Zaitsev but ya'll are crazy devaluing him around here. He can skate, pass, and he does okay in some of the toughest usage in the NHL. Last time I checked his QoC and ZSR were right near the top in terms of difficulty.

He's overpaid by 1 million AAV. Great way to get a top 4 dman who can play hard minutes on a team that doesn't have a cap crunch. I get it for Vancouver...a tough minutes eater so when Hughes and the other young guys come up, you can shelter them from those minutes and still ice a competitive roster.

 

[Rowlet]

5 more years for a 27 year old and a 10 team no trade list.

its not as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

his contract is worth less to me than the cap space for another 6 years, plus, I like Stetcher

 

[ESH]

It really isn't. He has played 20+ minutes on a team that has been top-3 in the NHL all season long. He won't be a stud, and his contract is way too long for a player of his calibre, but he is certainly at least a #4.

Yeah but it’s not like he’s playing well in top-4 minutes

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Lol 4.5 million for a top 4 RHD is now an "insane contract"

Never change HF.

Would you say Z has progressed or regressed since his $31.5 million dollar jackpot year?
For a guy that's now 27, that's a hefty chunk of money tied up in a guy who is an average #4 to great #5 D.
Think Andersen and your potent offense cover up and make Z's already meh numbers look better than they truly are.

I get he's been loaded with DZ starts and blocks a fair bit of shots but a 2-3 year deal would have been ideal knowing you had to re-sign the big 3 forwards. Adding Tavares complicated things obviously but I just don't get the 7 year deal
It bugs me because FLA offered Matheson a 8 year deal coming off two decent years. GM's are handing out term like peanuts to lower the caphit but if average second pairing guys are getting this much term, it's gotta be a great time to be a defenseman in the NHL

 

[Drew311]

I thought the same the first few games of the year, but I think he has cleaned up his play where he isn't out of place on the 2nd pairing. I'm okay with agreeing to disagree, because I don't really care enough to debate about it and I'm only going by my own eye test rather than any analytics.

I'll admit he's been less noticeable the last 10 - 15 games (which is a good thing). The first 20 games it seemed like he turned the puck over every time he had it. I think Zaitsev struggles with confidence, and can be a mess when he doesn't have it. Not a great quality to have with a guy signed long term for big dollars.

 

[sparxx87]

Yeah but it’s not like he’s playing well in top-4 minutes

Why? Because he doesn’t put up points? He gets no PP time and plays with a partner (Jake Gardiner) who serves as the primary puck mover/transporter? He’s capable of putting up more points but he’s being utilized in strictly a defensive role. He’s arguably the best defensive d man on the team in his own zone, and he defends the cycle and the slot very well. The Leafs need that.


...I’m really not sure what information you’ve gathered, but it’s incorrect. Simply refer to his usage by Mike Babcock whose not only qualified to make that determination, but he also watches him play and practice everyday. Rest assured, he’s more reliable than whatever snake oil stat you dug up.

 

[ESH]

Why? Because he doesn’t put up points? He gets no PP time and plays with a partner (Jake Gardiner) who serves as the primary puck mover/transporter? He’s capable of putting up more points but he’s being utilized in strictly a defensive role. He’s arguably the best defensive d man on the team in his own zone, and he defends the cycle and the slot very well. The Leafs need that.


...I’m really not sure what information you’ve gathered, but it’s incorrect. Simply refer to his usage by Mike Babcock whose not only qualified to make that determination, but he also watches him play and practice everyday. Rest assured, he’s more reliable than whatever snake oil stat you dug up.

More because the Leafs are very consistently outshot and outchanced while he’s on the ice

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I strongly dislike Zaitsev but ya'll are crazy devaluing him around here. He can skate, pass, and he does okay in some of the toughest usage in the NHL. Last time I checked his QoC and ZSR were right near the top in terms of difficulty.

He's overpaid by 1 million AAV. Great way to get a top 4 dman who can play hard minutes on a team that doesn't have a cap crunch. I get it for Vancouver...a tough minutes eater so when Hughes and the other young guys come up, you can shelter them from those minutes and still ice a competitive roster.

wish he could show that soon

 

[sparxx87]

More because the Leafs are very consistently outshot and outchanced while he’s on the ice

So his corsi? Lol that’s what you’re going on? I’m shocked.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

I do this if Stetcher is an improvement on Zaitsev.

Then trade Gagner + a draft pick to someone for future considerations in the off season.

 

[Boondock]

There's a couple reasons I'm against this deal from a Canucks perspective. First off we have Tanev, Gudbranson and Stetcher as our RHD. Stetcher is the only somewhat offensive Dman of that group. We do not have any top prospects in the RHD area either so trading Stetch for Zaitsev is counter productive. It would leave us with a right side that would finish the season with 1 goal 4 assists - total. Secondly, while I agree Zaitsev (4.5 x 6) isn't grossly overpaid, he is paid significantly more than Stetch (2.35 x 2 and then RFA), and I would rather keep the additional cap space for other purposes as apposed to bringing on another 5 years for a player who's older and probably at 27 doesn't project to get much better, where as Stetcher at 24 still has some growth potential. So not a dis on Zaitsev, or his contract, just not a sensible fit for how the Canucks are built right now.

 

[ESH]

So his corsi? Lol that’s what you’re going on? I’m shocked.

That’s not even an answer. If you don’t think it’s relevant that his team bleeds shot against when he’s on the ice, fine, but it’s not like you’ve explained how he’s a good top-4 defenseman.

 

[ole ole]

Lol 4.5 million for a top 4 RHD is now an "insane contract"

Never change HF.

No 4.5 mil for a top 4 RHD is a great contract. Problem is Zaitsev isn't close to being a top 4 RHD.

 

[garyturner3]

Agreed.
But he's probably going to walk for nothing, so Gardiner for stecher + is better than nothing at all.

Dermott is ready, so might as well cash in on whatever Gardiner can get you in a rental capacity.
The point was I'd rather not trade from the weak side.
Trading Zaitsev would be disastrous to our RHD.

Strongly disagree. A hopeful long playoff run with Gardiner in the lineup is much more valuable than Stecher. If the Leafs could get a huge haul for Gardiner then sure I'd be on board with that instead of losing him for nothing. But sacrificing him for the playoffs for only somebody like Stecher doesn't even move the needle for me.

 

[Tit]

Then he will go unsigned like bozak and jvr, and leave for nothing.
Terrible asset management.

Dermott is legit.
Either resign Gardiner, or trade him at the deadline.
I did add a + there.
We have terrible organizational depth at RHD.
Liljegren by all accounts might grow into a top pair RHD, but as of right now, looks more like a #2 RHD.
Zaitsev is a plug.
Hainsey is ancient.
Sandin might be our best D prospect, but he's a LHD.

We can't let Gardiner walk without getting something in return.
Our D is going to look AWFULLY bad next year if he does.

You really want to go into next year with

Reilly - Zaitsev
Rosen - Dermott
Sandin - Ozzy/Liljegren?

Because I certainly do not.

 

[justafan22]

Basically, i look at this proposal as boiling down to: a 3rd round pick, in exchange for taking on that $4.5M Zaitsev cap hit for his 29-32 year old seasons. I don't think that's quite enough to consider it...especially since that's probably the range of years where the Canucks will be looking to start competing and dealing with the sort of cap crunch that's about to hit the Leafs as young core pieces come off their ELCs.

Stecher for Zaitsev as players right now, is probably more or less a wash. If Zaitsev rebounds to his rookie form, maybe it swings a bit that way, but if Stecher continues to improve incrementally, maybe it swings that way. But they're probably more or less comparable #4ish RHD. With a fairly significant salary gulf between them, for the time being at least.

The Gagner deal going to TOR obviously helps offset that salary gulf this year and next, but after that...it's just pure cap dump going to Vancouver for 4 years. Years that venture into the players' 30s where some decline is to be expected from a middling guy like Zaitsev.

So it'd have to be more than just a (probably late) 3rd round pick to justify it. And even then...i'm just not sure it's worth hamstringing the future cap flexibility from 2020-2024. Where if/when you end up paying guys coming off ELCs, you're probably spending more than a 3rd to dump those likely "worst years" of the Zaitsev deal to make salary space for others, as the Leafs would be doing right now.

What if you change Stetcher to Gudbranson?

 

[Boondock]

What if you change Stetcher to Gudbranson?

Zaitsev is Gudbranson. Why make a totally lateral trade? especially if you are the Nucks - you can get out from that deal in a couple years with EG, Zaitsev is another 5+ years at a bigger hit. Makes no sense.

 

[Cogburn]

Better than the usual trade fodder, but I'm simply not impressed with Zaitsev enough to take that contract. We have Gudbranson, who was billed as a top 4 defenseman when we got him, fall apart on us here. I would rather stick with Stetcher and his slowly developing game than have another Gudbranson situation happen here, with a longer term and higher cap hit.

I'm not saying Zaitsev is worse than Gud, we just have a history of defensemen not adapting to our system when they are working just fine on other teams. See Gud, Ballard and pro scouting disasters like Garrison or Sbisa.

 

[Egghead1999]

Zaitsev is Gudbranson. Why make a totally lateral trade? especially if you are the Nucks - you can get out from that deal in a couple years with EG, Zaitsev is another 5+ years at a bigger hit. Makes no sense.

No way, Gudbranson cannot ice the puck

 

[Rowlet]

What if you change Stetcher to Gudbranson?

it's the same player but Guds is cheaper and has far less term

 

[Laterade]

Zaitsev reminds me of that shot blocker D on NJ i forget his name because im a idiot

Tallinder?

Anton Volchenkov

 

[Teflon Jim]

Lol 4.5 million for a top 4 RHD is now an "insane contract"

Never change HF.

If Z is a competent top 4 d then why are the leags trying to trade him as he is the rd the leafs need.
The truth is hes not top four but bottom four.