Confirmed with Link: [VAN/SJ] Hansen(20% ret.) for Goldobin, Cond'l '17 4th (becomes 1st if SJ wins Cup)

[JA]

Hansen never should have been traded for this return.

Golgobin is basically a poor man's Nail Yakupov. Just oozes talent but looks completely lost out there on the defensive side of things.

The primary issue with Yakupov is his lack of inherent hockey IQ. This deficiency prevents him from instinctively knowing how to generate offense at the NHL level. He relied heavily on his physical skill set as a junior-level player and never possessed the mind to create, adapt, or manage his positioning to be effective. He has no idea what to do with the puck when he has it, and he does not know where to be when it is not on his stick.

Goldobin's offensive instincts are apparently quite good, and they have been nurtured in the AHL. He has taken advantage of an educational and developmental opportunity that Yakupov did not have.

I haven't personally watched him, so I can't assess his tendencies. We have no frame of reference for where his offensive game is at the NHL level right now, so one would be rushing to judgment if they were to say that his situation is like Yakupov's. At the AHL level, he is a point-per-game player. Canucks fans should be able to see over the next little while whether he has the ability to create offense at the NHL level.

If he can, then he wouldn't be like Yakupov at all. The primary difference is that one would possess sufficient hockey IQ for the NHL, and the other would not. A one-way winger who can score is not unheard of in the NHL. There is also the chance that he may learn to play on the defensive side of the puck; if he can provide offense, then we would be partway towards having a reliable NHL player.

Hockey IQ is the primary factor that determines whether a player can adapt to the NHL. I'm not sure what to make of Goldobin's hockey IQ at the moment, but I know for certain what prevents Yakupov from being an NHL player.

One of the reports that I cited in my last post states that Goldobin's skill level, as of 2014, ranked within the upper half of the first round of the 2014 NHL Draft.

OHLW: Goldobin is all over the map in some Independent draft rankings. In your opinion, why is that?

Ross: It's a bit perplexing to me why he's ranked so drastically different in the draft rankings, especially in a draft class that is void of players lacking his high end offensive abilities. I am sure his defensive inconsistencies, wavering compete level and even his Russian passport concern some scouting agencies and contribute to these variances. Similarly to Max Domi being selected 12th overall last season, teams looking to add skill should consider Goldobin in the top half of the first round as well. It will be interesting to watch Goldobin and his Sarnia Sting to see if they creep into a playoff position. Goldobin could elevate his value with a strong showing in the post-season as he's been known to have a "clutch" element in his game - just ask the London Knights.

Here are that year's Top 15 picks:

1. Aaron Ekblad
2. Sam Reinhart
3. Leon Draisaitl
4. Sam Bennett
5. Michael Dal Colle
6. Jake Virtanen
7. Haydn Fleury
8. William Nylander
9. Nikolaj Ehlers
10. Nick Ritchie
11. Kevin Fiala
12. Brendan Perlini
13. Jakub Vrana
14. Julius Honka
15. Dylan Larkin

If the Canucks at the very least have a capable offensive player, then he is not like Nail Yakupov.

 

[Jack Burton]

The primary issue with Yakupov is his lack of inherent hockey IQ. This deficiency prevents him from instinctively knowing how to generate offense at the NHL level. He relied heavily on his physical skill set as a junior-level player and never possessed the mind to create, adapt, or manage his positioning to be effective. He has no idea what to do with the puck when he has it, and he does not know where to be when it is not on his stick.

Goldobin's offensive instincts are apparently quite good, and they have been nurtured in the AHL. He has taken advantage of an educational opportunity that Yakupov did not have.

I haven't personally watched him, so I can't assess his tendencies. We have no frame of reference for where his offensive game is at the NHL level right now, so one would be rushing to judgment if they were to say that his situation is like Yakupov's. At the AHL level, he is a point-per-game player. Canucks fans should be able to see over the next little while whether he has the ability to create offense at the NHL level.

If he can, then he wouldn't be like Yakupov at all. A one-way winger who can score is not unheard of in the NHL.

He's not NHL ready IMHO. There is much he still needs to learn.

I'll cross my fingers like you and hope that just a change of senerie can turn him around but I'm not going to hold my breath at the same time.

Let's see what happens....fair?

 

[VanJack]

Hansen never should have been traded for this return.

Golgobin is basically a poor man's Nail Yakupov. Just oozes talent but looks completely lost out there on the defensive side of things.

A 'poor man's Nail Yakupov"?....Gawd I hope not....Yakupov is a candidate for the KHL in the off-season, and surely has to be considered one of the all-time first overall draft pick flops...but hopefully Willie will just turn Goldobin loose offensively.....if he makes him play defense, the honeymoon could be short.

 

[NoShowWilly]

I'm a little disappointed that we retained. Was hoping to use both retention spots on the sedins next year.

 

[Jack Burton]

A 'poor man's Nail Yakupov"?....Gawd I hope not....Yakupov is a candidate for the KHL in the off-season, and surely has to be considered one of the all-time first overall draft pick flops...but hopefully Willie will just turn Goldobin loose offensively.....if he makes him play defense, the honeymoon could be short.

I won't argue the kind of tallent this kid has..it's off the charts and I'm willing to say that he is now our highest skilled prospect in our system but watching him play I'm not convinced it translates well to the NHL. His positioning on the ice defensively is brutal and often finds himself out of the play. Needs to build some strength to compete along the boards as he will go their but not very effective.

Again, fingers crossed and I'll eat my words if it works out.

 

[jeromemorrow]

THN's article about this trade

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...es-both-san-jose-and-vancouver-what-they-need

^Actually scratch that... pretty useless article.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'm a little disappointed that we retained. Was hoping to use both retention spots on the sedins next year.

A little is an understatement.
Shouldnt be any reason why theyd have to retain, especially such a minor amount.

San Jose basically gets an excellent deal, a good player, cap relief and a division rival handcuffed by tying up 1/2 remaining retention spots.

Its bad negotiating. Really bad.

 

[coastal_nuck]

I won't argue the kind of tallent this kid has..it's off the charts and I'm willing to say that he is now our highest skilled prospect in our system but watching him play I'm not convinced it translates well to the NHL. His positioning on the ice defensively is brutal and often finds himself out of the play. Needs to build some strength to compete along the boards as he will go their but not very effective.

Again, fingers crossed and I'll eat my words if it works out.

Curious, have you watched Goldobin play extensively to form such strong opinions? Serious question.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Yeah this deal kinda stinks the more I think about it. Jim probably thought the ridiculous first rounder condition balanced out the salary retention. He's a moron.

Goldobin is at the end of his second AHL season. It's put up or shut up time. He's in a similar spot to Linden Vey when we dealt for him, although a year younger. But the fact remains that San Jose had him on their minor league team for two years, and felt they could cut ties despite his solid offensive numbers. It's concerning, especially because it seems like the same mistake Benning has made in the past.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

A little is an understatement.
Shouldnt be any reason why theyd have to retain, especially such a minor amount.

San Jose basically gets an excellent deal, a good player, cap relief and a division rival handcuffed by tying up 1/2 remaining retention spots.

Its bad negotiating. Really bad.

Jesus I didn't even know about the retention and I hated the deal.

That's just awful. What a joke.

 

[particularsolution]

Yeah this deal kinda stinks the more I think about it. Jim probably thought the ridiculous first rounder condition balanced out the salary retention. He's a moron.

Goldobin is at the end of his second AHL season. It's put up or shut up time. He's in a similar spot to Linden Vey when we dealt for him, although a year younger. But the fact remains that San Jose had him on their minor league team for two years, and felt they could cut ties despite his solid offensive numbers. It's concerning, especially because it seems like the same mistake Benning has made in the past.

Vey had just finished his draft+5 season, Goldobin is about to finish his draft+3. Vey at the same stage had 43 pts in 74 AHL games. Not comparable at all, imo.

 

[WTG]

The more I think about it, the less I think of it as a win for the canucks.

But whatever, I think the trade is at least pretty even. I don't think there really is that much of a market on Hansen for him to get more then a good first round pick. So I think the return we got is fair enough.


The only way we really lose this trade is if we aren't rebuilding. If it turns out we want to do the whole "compete for the playoffs" again next season, then I think losing Hansen really will hurt us. Because he could have been a real useful player for us then. But if we are doing a actual rebuild and trading off anyone above 26 for younger players, then I actually don't think this trade is bad at all. Lots of people around here love what Toronto is doing, but at the same time Toronto also had some trades that are considered on the fence/even trades. Kessel and Phanuef both returns were lauded as wins/fails/even. That's the same thing that's happening now in Vancouver. If we are selling off assets we aren't always going to get a stellar package. But the most important thing is that we do sell off older assets so that even if we lose a trade here or there, we are still coming out the other end with enough to be in the right direction.

You gotta be able to see "the forest for the trees" you know. But if we only end up making 2 selling off older asset type trades, then there isn't much of a forest, thus making it a bad trade in my opinion.

 

[VanCanucks53]

I don't understand people's positions. Bring up Shinkaruk as an example as to why risk/reward players shouldn't be required.

But is Goldobin really any less or a risk then anyone taken in 20-31th pick this year? To me it's clear he's less of a risk.

Others say there was no need to trade Hansen, I disagree. We are on pace for back to back bottom 3 seasons. We clearly are in need to tank and move older assets.

I've seen some people say we didn't get "fair value". We basicaly got a prospect equivalent to a top 15 pick in this years draft. That's fair value to me.

I agree with this. I think this trade was fair. It's not a home run like the Burrows trade but I also don't think it was a bad trade either. If Hansen was traded for a 1st round pick in 2017 straight up I think most people would be okay with it. I think Goldobin is better value than a late first round pick in a weak draft like this one.

He does need to make an impact soon though. AHL numbers are great but he's now at the point in his career where he needs to stick to an NHL roster.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I think the deal is fair but the key is that we continue to develop Goldobin properly.

That means 15+ mins per game with decent linemates, ample PP time and room to make mistakes without being stapled to the bench.

I fear that Willie will still be stubborn and stick to "his guys" which at this point in the season is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Now it's about seeing young players audition for next season.

I don't think there was much of a market for Hansen (save for maybe MTL) which was willing to give up significant (ie greater than a 2nd rounder) assets. And a pick in the 25-30 range this year has about the same value as Goldobin IMO whose trajectory has been solid since his draft. He's from the same draft as McCann and Virtanen and looks like a much better prospect than either of them right now.

 

[Soups On]

Yeah this deal kinda stinks the more I think about it. Jim probably thought the ridiculous first rounder condition balanced out the salary retention. He's a moron.

Goldobin is at the end of his second AHL season. It's put up or shut up time. He's in a similar spot to Linden Vey when we dealt for him, although a year younger. But the fact remains that San Jose had him on their minor league team for two years, and felt they could cut ties despite his solid offensive numbers. It's concerning, especially because it seems like the same mistake Benning has made in the past.

Hold on. With that type of thinking, any prospect who is traded for a win-now player is a concerning prospect..? San Jose wants to win right now and they parted with one of their best prospects (behind Meier and Leblanc) who, correct me if I'm wrong, still has a few years in his ELC. Thomas Tatar played 4 years in the AHL and is now a top 6 winger. Sometimes that's what it takes and there's nothing wrong with that. Even then, San Jose has lots of winger depth and playing a creative, offensive winger with average defense on the fourth line does nothing for that team. Goldobin might've had a very good chance of cracking the top 9 in San Jose next year but that team wants to win right now before their productive veterans fall of a cliff or are let go. I don't think it's fair to call it concerning that Goldobin was let go as he's showed the type of progression we hoped Jake would show.

If San Jose wins the cup, which they have a really good chance of, getting a really good prospect in Goldobin and the 31st pick is a great deal for both parties.

With that said, not happy with salary retention either. Could've taken a small cap dump from them if they really needed cap space.

 

[VanJack]

Yeah this deal kinda stinks the more I think about it. Jim probably thought the ridiculous first rounder condition balanced out the salary retention. He's a moron.

Goldobin is at the end of his second AHL season. It's put up or shut up time. He's in a similar spot to Linden Vey when we dealt for him, although a year younger. But the fact remains that San Jose had him on their minor league team for two years, and felt they could cut ties despite his solid offensive numbers. It's concerning, especially because it seems like the same mistake Benning has made in the past.

Finally the voice of reason in all the TSN 1040 hype train about the Canucks deadline....let's be objective here.....The Sharks felt they could part with Goldobin for Hansen, a guy who they likely end up exposing in the expansion draft....so it's basically a rental.

And as far as Dahlen is concerned, the Sens were convinced that he was worth parting with for a 36 year old winger firmly on the backside of his career.

The comparisons to guys like Vey, Pedan, Clendening and Etem are legitimate concerns....other team's prospects who slid down the depth chart and were expendable for a reason...Jimbo track record in acquiring these guys is what it is.

 

[particularsolution]

Finally the voice of reason in all the TSN 1040 hype train about the Canucks deadline....let's be objective here.....The Sharks felt they could part with Goldobin for Hansen, a guy who they likely end up exposing in the expansion draft....so it's basically a rental.

And as far as Dahlen is concerned, the Sens were convinced that he was worth parting with for a 36 year old winger firmly on the backside of his career.

The comparisons to guys like Vey, Pedan, Clendening and Etem are legitimate concerns....other team's prospects who slid down the depth chart and were expendable for a reason...Jimbo track record in acquiring these guys is what it is.

None of those guys listed are even remotely comparable to either Dahlen or Goldobin.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Not about value it's about need.

This team needs elite talent. Badly. Goldobin is very unlikely to be am elite talent. Not impossible, nothing is impossible, but elite talents rarely play 100+ games in the ahl with good not great numbers and then get dealt at the deadline.

Now obviously Hansen was never going to return an elite talent. That goes without saying. But you get a draft pick, you get a much younger prospect, and you give yourself a chance. It's not likely, but imo it's more likely to hit a homerun with someone like Dahlen than someone like Goldobin,even if Goldobin has higher odds at making the nhl in some capacity.

We don't need a guy who will probably go on to have a solid career, another sven baertschi or someone like this. We need a ****ing monster, and the only way to get a monster is to stockpile as many draft picks as possible and pray to the right God.

 

[Soups On]

Finally the voice of reason in all the TSN 1040 hype train about the Canucks deadline....let's be objective here.....The Sharks felt they could part with Goldobin for Hansen, a guy who they likely end up exposing in the expansion draft....so it's basically a rental.

And as far as Dahlen is concerned, the Sens were convinced that he was worth parting with for a 36 year old winger firmly on the backside of his career.

The comparisons to guys like Vey, Pedan, Clendening and Etem are legitimate concerns....other team's prospects who slid down the depth chart and were expendable for a reason...Jimbo track record in acquiring these guys is what it is.

To apply the same rhetoric, that means for Calgary it's really concerning that the Canucks have up on Shinkaruk. For the Canucks, it's really concerning that Calgary have up Baertschi (which has been a success for the Canucks). Any time a team deals a prospect, it's a risk for both parties and that's entirely fair. But the team situation can heavily influenced that. San Jose giving up a top prospect to win now (they were not gonna give up a top 10 pick like Meier for a guy like Hansen) makes perfect sense. Canucks giving up an older player for a young player with top 6 potential and an ELC for a few more makes perfect sense.

Also, since Marley and Thornton are UFA, they could likely protect the following:

Pavelski, Couture, Hertl, Tierney, Ward, Boedker, Hansen

Burns, Vlasic, Braun

Jones

Who knows.

 

[Bgav]

Goldobin is worth more then the sharks first this year. Can't wait till he plays and everyone's calms the **** down

 

[VanJack]

None of those guys listed are even remotely comparable to either Dahlen or Goldobin.

Hmm...let's see....Etem was a first round pick of the Ducks: Clendening a second-round pick of the Hawks who had a splendid rookie year in the AHL; Vey was rated as one of the Kings top prospects when we traded for him; and Pedan was a third-round pick of the Islanders, who was supposedly stuck behind a strong blueline prospect pool and just waiting to bust out.

I'd say they're pretty good comparisons to Dahlen and Goldobin.

 

[Cupless44]

Vey had just finished his draft+5 season, Goldobin is about to finish his draft+3. Vey at the same stage had 43 pts in 74 AHL games. Not comparable at all, imo.

This player is not Linden vey. Of that I am confident.

 

[Tryforthekingdom]

The comparison that's incredibly apt is Shikaruk at the time we traded him...almost oddly so. Both October-born left wingers touted as one of the most skilled in their respective drafts but fall to the 20s as a result of concerns about size, softness, and defensive play. Both 5'11 and within a few pounds of each other currently. Shinkaruk was scoring at a rate of .87 pts/g in his draft + 3 year at the time he was traded, Goldobin currently scoring at .89 pts/g in his draft + 3 year in the AHL.

I just find the superficial similarities very peculiar.

 

[Intoewsables]

Yeah this deal kinda stinks the more I think about it. Jim probably thought the ridiculous first rounder condition balanced out the salary retention. He's a moron.

Goldobin is at the end of his second AHL season. It's put up or shut up time. He's in a similar spot to Linden Vey when we dealt for him, although a year younger. But the fact remains that San Jose had him on their minor league team for two years, and felt they could cut ties despite his solid offensive numbers. It's concerning, especially because it seems like the same mistake Benning has made in the past.

Agreed. Before the retention part of the deal was announced, I was okay with the return. Not as excited as some other people here, but just okay with it. I like Goldobin but as you said, he's at that age where he needs to be able to break through soon or his odds of becoming an impact player get pretty bleak. Having to retain on Hansen and forego any opportunity to trade the Sedins, or two other players who may need retention to complete a deal, is ludicrous. We're not receiving enough to offset that.

Even though I disagree with the comparisons to Linden Vey and the like, I get where they're coming from. Goldobin is a better prospect than the rest of Jim's projects but this team needs to stop taking on prospects that other teams have deemed expendable, and start trading for picks that we can hopefully turn into higher risk/reward prospects. The former approach has been a colossal failure thus far and has probably cost us a few solid prospects.

 

[VanJack]

The comparison that's incredibly apt is Shikaruk at the time we traded him...almost oddly so. Both October-born left wingers touted as one of the most skilled in their respective drafts but fall to the 20s as a result of concerns about size, softness, and defensive play. Both 5'11 and within a few pounds of each other currently. Shinkaruk was scoring at a rate of .87 pts/g in his draft + 3 year at the time he was traded, Goldobin currently scoring at .89 pts/g in his draft + 3 year in the AHL.

I just find the superficial similarities very peculiar.

Exactly....and looking more and more like the Canucks made the right call on Shinkaruk.....Sens and Sharks may live to regret dealing Dahlen and Goldobin...but no better than 50-50 imo.