Post-Game Talk: Van Ryn's system and Jones hand another loss

[Shanwhatplan]

It's funny, so many people celebrated moving on from Dubas because of roster construction/cap allocation in the same offseason he was rumoured to be moving on from a core player and reallocating cap.

This team doesn't need Dubas to win, he's never won and every cup in history has been won by a guy not named Dubas. However we need someone who understands the teams needs and it looks like we've gotten further from that this year.

Have to agree. I always hated Dubas, but after what he said last year about maybe it's time to reevaluate the core (or however he said it), it's Shanahan who I truly despise!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Tavares is cooked, he's accumulated his points this year on the shoulders of the pp and Nylander, he's slow as molasses and no speed burst metric analytical BS will change its reality in plain effin site.

Yeah his camp straight line numbers were quite good, in fact best he has ever had, and this past summer he looked, and said, he lost over 10 lbs .. my take is he started out year a little quicker in games but he is slowly getting his old body weight back and he has slowed down quite a bit

 

[Aashir Mallik]

With 55 mil tied up in 5 players I’m not sure how realistic this D corp is.

Leafs need 1 or 2 ELC prospects/marlies call ups playing on D (6/7 d) and same for the fourth line.

Moneys too tight for 2 UFA signings and a deadline deal on defense.

If you bring back liljegren, benoit, robertson, and a 4th line RW for combined 5ish milllion we should have 17 million to get:
top 6 LW, 3C, 3 defencemen, a goalie of unknown calibre (depends on what woll is), and 3 dman all being top 4. You are correct that it is very hard, maybe impossible unless brad somehow gets a steal or two. I am under the impression cowan and minten will not make the team next year here as well

Yea two signings probably isn't happening so we may have to keep liljegren in top 4, we might just have to take a step back in the depth offence aspect for a year and bolster the defence and goaltending with the 17 million, maybe a 6-7 million dollar dman and a 4ish and then grab a goalie and fill either the top6 or 3c role with the remainder, then when tavares runs out, ideally you can use 7-8 of it for a proper 2C replacement and the rest on depth.

 

[Space umpire]

We don’t know how much power a new GM who has the understanding of playoff hockey would have.
Shanahan handpicks his guys and it might be conditional that you can only do certain things. Again we don’t know know but I don’t think Tre is GMing alone.

But we kind of do know, don’t we?
It was much discussed when Dubas signed w the Pens that he wanted more autonomy.
It was let off that there were moves he wanted to make that Shanahan nixed. That clearly indicates the GM has to get approval from above before making a move.
Can anyone really blames Dubas or Treliving when the reality is they don’t have the authority to build the roster they want?

 

[notDatsyuk]

As an outsider, I'd like to know why your coach doesn't try to run these lines or something similar for a game or two:

Nylander Matthews Marner
Bertuzzi Tavares Domi
Knies Jarnkrok Holmberg
Robertson Kampf Gregor

I'm beginning to wonder if it's loyalty to his buddy who got him the job.

He tries new line combinations, and when he fines one that works, like Knies-Domi-Marner, he immediately breaks it up. It's been shown that Matthews works better with Nylander and that Tavares isn't even a 2C now, but he keeps Willy with JT to try to make JT look good.

Can't have the new players looking better than Dubas' big mistake.

I suppose the other explanation is just that he's a really bad coach.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Yup, I don't know that any coach could get any more from this group. And Bertuzzi and Domi have turned out to be poor signings, especially Bert!

I'm no keefe lover at all, I think he has been the weak link come playoffs time for this team, but idk man we haven't given him much, had the players been like they should've he should've been able to build a team that scores a ton, and has some issues on the backend. we could then address that at the deadline, but as of now our depth guys cannot score or defend. I do think some of the goals we are giving up are bad structure and some bad line calls, but alot of it is also indiviual mistakes

he has a solid dman in benoit that was added and a backup in jones, everyone else is ranging from meh to horrible. domi and bert isn't just on keefe, i do think a bit more line shuffling should be done as it can't get worse than this, maybe domi-marner as that worked well when they played together last time, but those two, especially bertuzzi have been awful. Keefe's gameplans aren't the reason bertuzzi has blown 4-5 completly empty nets, including last night which could've given us a 4-3 lead. Bertuzzi has been as bad of a signing as ritchie was

As an outsider, I'd like to know why your coach doesn't try to run these lines or something similar for a game or two:

Nylander Matthews Marner
Bertuzzi Tavares Domi
Knies Jarnkrok Holmberg
Robertson Kampf Gregor

you'd see a 50 point tavares there. He is barely at a 60 point pace with a 110 point player or 95 point player

tavares is very useless without nylander or marner. He cannot get to prime scoring chances with the puck and he cannot pass it to players who are there. He is ok at standing in front of the net when a dynamic skater is doing alot of the work and getting the attention and he can be an annoyance to the goalie and grab some rebounds,

 

[weems]

Nobody should have expected either to be difference makers. Tavares has been slowing as has Brodie, both can contribute, but we needed to insulate and support this summer. We went the opposite route, removing defensive for Brodie and removing C options for Tavares.

Brodies name came up alot this offseason and most of the responses we're that there's no way you can move him as he's the teams second best defender.

I posted one of these newer stats WAR/GAR this offseason and it showed that Brodie was one of our more effective players last season.

This attempt to not admit these two have been awful or to say no one should have expected them to be integral parts feels like someone just trying to shift the entire blame onto Treliving because of his depth moves.

Treliving hasn't been good but Tavares, Brodie, the goalies and even Marner haven't been as good as many expected.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

But we kind of do know, don’t we?
It was much discussed when Dubas signed w the Pens that he wanted more autonomy.
It was let off that there were moves he wanted to make that Shanahan nixed. That clearly indicates the GM has to get approval from above before making a move.
Can anyone really blames Dubas or Treliving when the reality is they don’t have the authority to build the roster they want?

It was clear for a long time, but Shanny sort of came in through an unconventional channel: player safety -> team president. But there were no illusions. Why would a former player only want to do LEAF P.R. ? He's been apart every single major decision since the beginning: fire Nonis/Carlyle, hire Lou, hire Babcock, etc. I am really curious how Treliving is going to make his impact and how he's going to pivot going forward.

 

[Torontonian]

I wouldn’t spend an asset on another backup, do they try to fit Fleury in?


Why wait until summer? I think it should start right now

The only two people under contract for next season is McCabe and Rielly, lot easier to move on from them in summer then now.

No point in doing stuff now in the regular season.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Tavares is becoming a major issue at even strength. Consistently outplayed, becoming a faceoff/PP specialist. His warts would be better hidden on the wing, unfortunately we don't have that luxury,

Giordano is shot completely, and Brodie cannot play top minutes anymore.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Have to agree. I always hated Dubas, but after what he said last year about maybe it's time to reevaluate the core (or however he said it), it's Shanahan who I truly despise!

tbh I don't like either

Dubas talked about reevaluating the core 2-3 years and never did it. I think he wanted a trade that he would certainly win, and for marner and nylander there really isn't a trade you win outright. Marner because although overpaid, there aren't many packages teams willingly would make which is fair. Nylander is the contract value, you wouldn't get a ppg player at 7 million.

Dubas had ample time to evaluate and realize this core is not it. If you pay half your cap to the 4 guys, come playoff time they all better be over a ppg, but that doesn't happen with our guys. He had his chances, and he didn't take them.

Shanahan being here makes no sense, he bet on dubas, he had the whole thing end in such a messy way, and had nasty micromanagement reports about him, but he has no pressure on him

the tag team duo of doofuses

 

[weems]

Nobody should expect our $11M centre (also our captain) to be a difference maker.

Got it.

And just what 2nd line “C options” were available exactly for Tavares to shift over to the wing?

Anytime Tavares's name has been brought up the past few years the instant response was that he's still a #1C on alot of teams now all the sudden no one should have expected him to be a difference maker.

 

[rumman]

you may continue posting of nothing except post doom dreams of a scorched earth rebuild in 2025 and I will continue to make a little post every once in a while in a PGT about a lineup move I wouldn't mind see happening, ok?

Thanks for giving me permission to continue to post my opinions, I wasn’t aware it was up to you……..

 

[disgruntleddave]

Anytime Tavares's name has been brought up the past few years the instant response was that he's still a #1C on alot of teams now all the sudden no one should have expected him to be a difference maker.

The eye test draws that conclusion. Most games it looks like he may never score a point again. He can't skate.

 

[Nineteen67]

The only two people under contract for next season is McCabe and Rielly, lot easier to move on from them in summer then now.

No point in doing stuff now in the regular season.

Theres no time like the present to improve your team. Key word Improve. Otherwise I agree with you.

 

[leafs in five]

The puck was initially going to slide in too, but he literally stopped the puck and then kicked it in lol

lmao this play and the empty net misses vs edmonton were both like playing mini stick hockey vs your 5 year old niece or nephew when you are basically trying to score goals against yourself for them and they stop themselves from doing it

 

[notDatsyuk]

you'ld see a 50 point tavares there. He is barely at a 60 point pace with a 110 point player or 95 point player

tavares is very useless without nylander or marner. He cannot get to prime scoring chances with the puck and he cannot pass it to players who are there. He is ok at standing in front of the net when a dynamic skater is doing alot of the work and getting the attention and he can be an annoyance to the goalie and grab some rebounds,

JT has 5 points in his last 16 games, playing mostly with the player who led the team in assists and points (and second in goals) over that same period. That's a 25 point pace. He also had easily the worst +/-.

 

[leafs in five]

Thanks for giving me permission to continue to post my opinions, I wasn’t aware it was up to you……..

well so long as it's an opinion that amounts to blow the whole thing up and start again as anything less than that such as saying a player might do better playing with different linemates is trivial, a distraction

 

[rumman]

well so long as it's an opinion that amounts to blow the whole thing up and start again as anything less than that such as saying a player might do better playing with different linemates is trivial, a distraction

If only the Leafs were as persistent as you…….

 

[leafs in five]

I didn't start this exchange man

 

[leafs in five]

Dubas isn't dead , he's just killing another team , so you and the rest of his supporters should head on over to the Pens board to tell them what kind of genius he is for making the playoffs 4 out 5 years he was here with a team that he inherited that consisted of Mathews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly/Adersen/Kadri , tons of cap space and a full compliment of picks !

we had lots of cap space last summer

 

[GoonieFace]

we had lots of cap space last summer

To spend on what? The free agent field was garbage. Or should we have traded more assets? The summer obviously wasn’t ideal, but it’s better than the alternative of handing out more bad long term deals to average players.

 

[hotpaws]

we had lots of cap space last summer

not when you consider we had to account for raises to Willy and Mathews as well as not knowing how much the cap would increase

and not to mention it was a weak ufa class to shop in while your boy Dubas didn't leave much in the way of assets to fill our needs by way of trade

 

[Moonman]

Do not add to this team. We need to wait until Tavares is gone. In the meantime just keep our picks and hold pat

If the players complain, tell em straight up, the core players took too much and we have to fix our prospect pool.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

JT has 5 points in his last 16 games, playing mostly with the player who led the team in assists and points (and second in goals) over that same period. That's a 25 point pace. He also had easily the worst +/-.

he has 15 in 27 since coming back from sweden
Nylander has 34, Marner has 30

So a 46 point player with either a 103 or 91 point player. He’s been awful and it’s a huge problem