Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CHI] Canucks acquire F Matthew Highmore for F Adam Gaudette

[MS]

I never said anything about Shinkaruk not having value. Those are your words. What I took issue with is you thinking he is worth possibly a 2nd round pick. Goldobin stepped into the AHL and was a good player right away (something you criticized Shinkaruk for not doing). He was traded with essentially a 4th round pick for Hansen. People think that just because a player requires waivers the following season that they will have no value. That's not true at all.

Benning thought Linden Vey was worth a 2nd round pick.

Benning thought Sven Baertschi was worth a 2nd round pick.

Benning thought Markus Granlund was worth a 2nd round pick and traded an asset worth roughly a 2nd rounder for him.

Goldobin was also traded for roughly the value of a 2nd rounder. He'd had a better rookie AHL season (coming off a year playing against men while Shinkaruk was playing against kids and then suffered a serious injury) and then they were neck-and-neck in their 2nd AHL seasons.

I mean, shit. Andrey Pedan was apparently worth a 3rd rounder while he was playing in the ECHL in his draft+4.

Jim Benning gets ZERO benefit of the doubt when an asset appears to have been sold for less than value.

 

[Hit the post]

I think it's safe to say this regime's professional scouting has been extremely uneven at best.

 

[Pip]

Oh lawd I forgot about the Pedan trade

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Who Benning has taken with a 2nd round pick: Demko, Lind, Gadjovich, Woo, Hoglander

Who Benning has traded a 2nd round pick for: Vey, Baertschi, Sutter (+ Bonino), Gubranson (+ McCann), Toffoli rental (+ Madden)

f***ing comical

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I still don't know how Linden Vey got a 2nd round pick. A waiver eligable player that is entering his D+6 season that hasn't made the NHL should have nowhere close to that kind of value. Sven Baertschi I can kind of understand since he had the former first round pick value, but Vey didn't have that.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I still don't know how Linden Vey got a 2nd round pick. A waiver eligable player that is entering his D+6 season that hasn't made the NHL should have nowhere close to that kind of value. Sven Baertschi I can kind of understand since he had the former first round pick value, but Vey didn't have that.

He was a Willie D special. Vey made it clear from the start that Benning does not understand player valuation and context.

 

[canuckking1]

If Canucks had kept all the 2nd round picks they trade they likely have one more top 9 forward or middle pair defender. If they had hoarded picks like most rebuilding teams did they'd likely have 2-3 depth pieces which would give them a competitive advantage of not overpaying for depth as they've done.

 

[MS]

If Canucks had kept all the 2nd round picks they trade they likely have one more top 9 forward or middle pair defender. If they had hoarded picks like most rebuilding teams did they'd likely have 2-3 depth pieces which would give them a competitive advantage of not overpaying for depth as they've done.

Or if they'd actually made good trades when they traded those picks away and acquired players/assets with value, they'd also have a couple more players.

It isn't necessarily that they traded picks away, it's the double-whammy of the fact they traded them away for garbage.

 

[Samzilla]

I still don't know how Linden Vey got a 2nd round pick. A waiver eligable player that is entering his D+6 season that hasn't made the NHL should have nowhere close to that kind of value. Sven Baertschi I can kind of understand since he had the former first round pick value, but Vey didn't have that.

He got a 2nd round pick because Benning projected Vey to be our 2C (lol). With that valuation, who wouldn't pay a 2nd round pick for a 2C? That's a great deal if you're right (spoiler: Benning wasn't right).

 

[StreetHawk]

If Canucks had kept all the 2nd round picks they trade they likely have one more top 9 forward or middle pair defender. If they had hoarded picks like most rebuilding teams did they'd likely have 2-3 depth pieces which would give them a competitive advantage of not overpaying for depth as they've done.

They simply didn't have the patience to do that, which they should have.

Detroit has certainly loaded up on draft picks since 2017 draft. See how many of their 2nd/3rd round picks ever amount to anything.

2017 - 1st, 2nd, 4 picks in round 3
2018 - 2 picks in round 1, 2 picks in round 2, 3 picks in round 3
2019 - 1 pick in round 1, 3 picks in round 2, 1 pick in round 3
2020 - 1 pick in round 1, 3 picks in round 2, 2 picks in round 3
2021 - 2 picks in round 1, 3 picks in round 2, 2 picks in round 3
2022 - 1 pick in round 1, 2 picks in round 2, 1 pick in round 3 (so far)

In that 5 year span from 2017-2021, they will have collected 7 1st round picks, 12 picks in round 2, 12 picks in round 3. 31 players drafted in the top 93 picks. Doubled what they were allotted.

But, have to consider that the early returns on some of those aren't as impressive. Rasmussen likely a 3C. Zadina, don't think he's a first line winger, more like a 2nd line guy. They need to show more patience with their kids and develop them. Filip Hronek, from looking at stats is close to 0.5 PPG as a Dman, but his +/- is not very good. Is he developing into a Tyson Barrie player? Pay him for his offense, but he can't defend?

 

[VanJack]

For a guy who's resume is highlighted by his supposed ability to draft; and for a guy who professes that he 'hates trading draft picks', Jim Benning has dealt more picks away than any GM in Canucks history.

And as posters have pointed out, the second rounders he traded away were for 'flotsam and jetsam players' who mostly aren't even in the league any more.

Whatever you think if Benning's work as Canuck GM, it's part of the record that is impossible to defend.

 

[4Twenty]

Tampa is a perfect example of pick hoarding and acquiring picks and prospects for players all while contending.

Also since Benning was manager Tampa has made 11 2nd round picks, Vancouver 5.

Why do we not want to compare and follow a championship teams best practices?

 

[DonnyNucker]

Tampa is a perfect example of pick hoarding and acquiring picks and prospects for players all while contending.

Also since Benning was manager Tampa has made 11 2nd round picks, Vancouver 5.

Why do we not want to compare and follow a championship teams best practices?

Tampa is a model franchise. Tax and simply being in the US advantage. I wish we could be like Tampa and attract UFAs and executives at a discount. But yes, we need more picks if we have any chance of competing with the Tampa’s of the league

 

[crowfish]

I still don't know how Linden Vey got a 2nd round pick. A waiver eligable player that is entering his D+6 season that hasn't made the NHL should have nowhere close to that kind of value. Sven Baertschi I can kind of understand since he had the former first round pick value, but Vey didn't have that.

They found a sucker GM and sold high. If Benning had drafted Vey he would have held him after he lit up the AHL then traded him after he scores 5 goals in the NHL for a 4th line grinder.

 

[Scorvat]

Tampa is a model franchise. Tax and simply being in the US advantage. I wish we could be like Tampa and attract UFAs and executives at a discount. But yes, we need more picks if we have any chance of competing with the Tampa’s of the league

Tampa was a joke of a franchise until they required component leadership. Canucks by all metrics should be a borderline top 10 franchise in the NHL instead we have been slowly descending into a clown franchise that others laugh at (granted we have always had the "curse" factor). Good leadership with a vision and plan always leads to successful organizations in professional sports

 

[VanJack]

Tampa is a model franchise. Tax and simply being in the US advantage. I wish we could be like Tampa and attract UFAs and executives at a discount. But yes, we need more picks if we have any chance of competing with the Tampa’s of the league

The Canucks have attracted a lot of UFA's over the years....in fact in terms of July 1st signings, the Canucks have one of the most active teams in the entire NHL. Of course when you're handing out three and four year contracts like dollar-store candy, you're going to attract a lot of UFA's. And for the most part, Benning's UFA's have been total flops.

Tampa on the other hand has signed a few UFA's and traded for depth....but generally speaking their pipeline to contending status year after year has been the draft. They find gems in later rounds, let them marinate for a couple of years in Syracuse, and then insert them seamlessly into the lineup.

And that's why Benning reckless trading of second and third rounders for other NHL teams' failed prospects' over the past seven years has been so destructive. But he just can't seem to help himself.

 

[crowfish]

Tampa is a perfect example of pick hoarding and acquiring picks and prospects for players all while contending.

Also since Benning was manager Tampa has made 11 2nd round picks, Vancouver 5.

Why do we not want to compare and follow a championship teams best practices?

Benning's plan is to slowly but surely sign all the average players from the 2018 Washington Capitals and let the cup experience magically win us games.

 

[F A N]

Also since Benning was manager Tampa has made 11 2nd round picks, Vancouver 5.

(
Tampa did a great job but the numbers don't tell the whole story. They traded down (Ho Sang pick) for two 2nds. The following season they once again traded down and gave the Islanders the Beauvillier pick for a 2nd and 3rd. They got a 2nd from the previous Connelly trade. They traded DeAngelo for a 2nd. They traded a 2021 2nd for a second in 2020.

Full credit for those deals mostly working in Tampa's favour, but the Canucks could accumulate 2nds by trading their recent first round picks for them or trading down.

 

[HockeyWooot]

If Canucks had kept all the 2nd round picks they trade they likely have one more top 9 forward or middle pair defender. If they had hoarded picks like most rebuilding teams did they'd likely have 2-3 depth pieces which would give them a competitive advantage of not overpaying for depth as they've done.

This.

 

[F A N]

Benning thought Markus Granlund was worth a 2nd round pick and traded an asset worth roughly a 2nd rounder for him.

That's just your imagination.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

There’s a Management Thread already. Shutting this down as that is what this thread has become as well.