Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CHI] Canucks acquire 5th Round Pick for F Anthony Beauvillier

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

What just happened was Chicago lost two fairly substantial pieces within a week and were desperate to add a warm body who could contribute; the fact that this desperation only made them give up a 5th shows that Beauvillier had no value.

Obviously.

Chicago's circumstances from the off season and a few days ago are completely different.

 

[m9]

What just happened was Chicago lost two fairly substantial pieces within a week and were desperate to add a warm body who could contribute; the fact that this desperation only made them give up a 5th shows that Beauvillier had no value.

Well that's kind of my point - they didn't have those warm bodies (and a bunch of other bodies) earlier this summer when Beauvillier was available so it's at least plausible they could have gotten a deal done. I'm not saying it should have happened or that Allvin blew it by not getting it done.. I'm just saying we have enough information to think maybe they could have pulled this off this summer.

 

[biturbo19]

They literally just traded for Beauvillier for an asset to the same team/GM, obviously he's a player/player type they have some level of interest in.

I'm not going to dig in further becuase it's a waste of time - I just find the characterization that they would have had no chance to trade Beau earlier an unlikely premise given what just happened and to which team and I'll leave it there.

Chicago lost Hall for the season, Perry just had his contract terminated amid a cloud of bizarre speculation, and Athanasiou is also injured and playing like total garbage prior to that as well. Foligno is basically the only "veteran mentor" summer gamble they made that has worked out in any capacity whatsoever. But they clearly had some things in mind when they were making those signings, that Beauvillier obviously did not satisfy.

So obviously their outlook changed from the summer to now. They suddenly became desperate to get some sort of help into the lineup. Competent, established NHL Top-9 Forwards. The level of pickiness goes down when you're in that messy situation mid-season. So they used their cap situation to acquire a warm body for basically nothing. But you'll note, it was Beauvillier they took on, not Garland. I'd be surprised if Chicago even re-sign Beauvillier after the year. Maybe if he really clicks, and is willing to take a massive pay cut to stay. Not an "ideal" veteran mentor. Just a stopgap bandaid solution out of desperation due to changing circumstances.

 

[biturbo19]

I think it's really easy to say there was "no way" they could dump a $4 million contract but you are completely ignoring that Chicago - the team they just traded him to - made these moves in the summer:

-Traded for Taylor Hall (2 x 6 mil)
-Traded for and signed Nick Foligno (1 x 4 mil )
-Traded for & signed Corey Perry (1 x 4 mil )
-Signed Ryan Donato (2 x 2 million)
-Re-signed Andreas Athanasiou (2 x 4.25 mil)

Is it reasonable to think that they could have trade Beau there by attaching a small sweetener like a late round pick or whatever given all of those signings/trades? IMO, yes. Clearly they were looking to upgrade the wings with vets on short-term deals and clearly they liked Beau at least a bit.

I don't think it really matters at this point - they got it done eventually - but to say there's no way they could accomplish moving that contract in the summer just doesn't add up to me.

I don't think it's a case of, "no way" to move Beauvillier there in the summer.

But it's balancing the cost of doing that, vs the opportunity cost of just keeping him and getting it done now.

It would've cost them probably at least a 3rd round pick to move Beauvillier there in the summer. Whereas moving him now, they actually gained a high 5th round pick. That's largely all playing in the margins with mid-picks...but is the value of that worth it? What would they have been able to spend the cap space on, if they'd pulled the trigger on paying to move him earlier? They already landed a goodly number of UFA targets. In a market that wasn't swimming with an abundance of great options.

 

[m9]

Chicago lost Hall for the season, Perry just had his contract terminated amid a cloud of bizarre speculation, and Athanasiou is also injured and playing like total garbage prior to that as well. Foligno is basically the only "veteran mentor" summer gamble they made that has worked out in any capacity whatsoever. But they clearly had some things in mind when they were making those signings, that Beauvillier obviously did not satisfy.

So obviously their outlook changed from the summer to now. They suddenly became desperate to get some sort of help into the lineup. Competent, established NHL Top-9 Forwards. The level of pickiness goes down when you're in that messy situation mid-season. So they used their cap situation to acquire a warm body for basically nothing. But you'll note, it was Beauvillier they took on, not Garland. I'd be surprised if Chicago even re-sign Beauvillier after the year. Maybe if he really clicks, and is willing to take a massive pay cut to stay. Not an "ideal" veteran mentor. Just a stopgap bandaid solution out of desperation due to changing circumstances.

I don't think it's a case of, "no way" to move Beauvillier there in the summer.

This is all I'm really saying.

But it's balancing the cost of doing that, vs the opportunity cost of just keeping him and getting it done now.

It would've cost them probably at least a 3rd round pick to move Beauvillier there in the summer. Whereas moving him now, they actually gained a high 5th round pick. That's largely all playing in the margins with mid-picks...but is the value of that worth it? What would they have been able to spend the cap space on, if they'd pulled the trigger on paying to move him earlier? They already landed a goodly number of UFA targets. In a market that wasn't swimming with an abundance of great options.

Yup, this is probably the scenario. Give up something small in the summer or get something small now? Not sure which is better and honestly don't really care either way. Also not sure if it changes what they end up doing with Pearson.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I don't think it's a case of, "no way" to move Beauvillier there in the summer.

But it's balancing the cost of doing that, vs the opportunity cost of just keeping him and getting it done now.

It would've cost them probably at least a 3rd round pick to move Beauvillier there in the summer. Whereas moving him now, they actually gained a high 5th round pick. That's largely all playing in the margins with mid-picks...but is the value of that worth it? What would they have been able to spend the cap space on, if they'd pulled the trigger on paying to move him earlier? They already landed a goodly number of UFA targets. In a market that wasn't swimming with an abundance of great options.

This last off season..If all it cost the Canucks to shift out Beauvillier (and his $4M caphit) was a 3rd …..That would have been siezed on and done in a NY minute.

 

[TruGr1t]

I still don’t buy Beauvillier would be hard to move. Now with the Zadorov trade, I think it was literally they didn’t want to move him and did it to accommodate this trade. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Chicago offer was on the table for a while.

 

[timw33]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Chicago offer was on the table for a while

I think the Hall/Perry situations forced their hand only very recently.

 

[biturbo19]

This is all I'm really saying.



Yup, this is probably the scenario. Give up something small in the summer or get something small now? Not sure which is better and honestly don't really care either way. Also not sure if it changes what they end up doing with Pearson.

I don't think it really would've changed much to do with the Pearson situation. I think that caught them off guard. Doesn't seem like they were expecting to have him "healthy" and trying to make a run at a comeback at all. Which obviously created a significant problem on the eve of the season opening.

They pivoted really well to turning him into a really solid backup goaltender that they desperately needed anyway.

After Pearson's nice start, he's somewhat predictably fallen off pretty hard of late anyway. I just don't think he's a guy that they would've wanted to keep, given the various circumstances. So even moving Beauvillier out instead...i think speaks to that. They got a much better option in moving Pearson, which cost them less than Beauvillier likely would have...and got something they really needed back in return.

This last off season..If all it cost the Canucks to shift out Beauvillier (and his $4M caphit) was a 3rd …..That would have been siezed on and done in a NY minute.

Hence, suggesting at least a 3rd. Entirely plausible they were asking even more. More salary, but less term than the Dickinson deal. How that pans out in the reality of this summer's cap landscape...it was pretty clearly going to cost more, or at least offer a less beneficial return than what they ultimately did with Pearson, getting DeSmith back. They took the better deal overall.

I'm not sure they would've jumped at a spending a 3rd to move him in the summer. I think there was potentially even a little bit of a disconnect about just how negative an asset Beauvillier was...between management and Ricky Tock. But seeing the way Tocchet was inclined to use (or not use) Beauvillier this season, i think made it clear he was a guy who needed to go. He's also just been pretty useless filler this year, without one of his little hot streaks.


But Pearson was not just an unwanted cap burden, but a huge potential liability because of his uncertain health situation and long layoff not playing at all. Not to mention, an obvious distraction with his frustration with the way the whole thing was handled. So that was always going to be the priority to ship out...once it became clear that he wasn't just going to be confined to Robidas Island.

 

[theguardianII]

Well that 5th didn't last long

 

[theguardianII]

For the strung out trade junkie that I am, Allvin & Rutherford are the perfect combo. Trades can happen at any moment! Now give me another hit!

Yep, all those years of having a lazy GM. Benning and his media lackeys constantly defending, "trades can't happen because of the cap" while watching teams like Tampa, Vegas, TO and others making big deals.
Finally trades that match being a capped out team.

Not finished yet.
As I posted they have points in the bank so they can bring in another couple of players and have them get used to the system and players. Russian guys would be nice with Gonchar around to help coach.

I was tentative in support until now.
Now I am getting confidence the front office that I haven't felt since Gillis and his guys were here.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Allvin and JR are cooking

Help on D is coming before 2024, book it

 

[F A N]

I see. That's a weird way of thinking about it because no one would willingly take on an overpaid winger with limited versatility in order to collect a late round pick further down the road, much less one after the offseason was over. That's a classic strawman and a deliberate misunderstanding of the value exchanged in the Horvat trade. Please note that I'm not accusing you of making a strawman argument, I'm referring to Drance.

What I take issue with is that this strawman is the premise for his critique of opportunity cost. A fairer assessment is that management was able to free up 4.15M in cap space without parting with a sweetener. It took until the quarter mark of the season to do so because there wasn't a market until that point. And, in my opinion, adding 4.15 M in cap flexibility mid-season without parting with picks and prospects is better than parting with picks to gain that flexibility in the offseason given the team's early season success that can still be built upon with cap flexibility created in-season.

Fair enough. I don't idolize Drance but his "X" or "tweet" came from a more fleshed out article so I thought it was worth adding to the discussion. Like I said, I think he's just poo pooing an awesome trade that surprisingly materialized. Drance seems to be one of those people who is never 100% happy which from a personal level I can identify with haha. Anyways, given the reaction that he's gotten I guess he succeeded in what he was trying to accomplish.

 

[VanJack]

We might have figured that the Beauvillier deal wasn't done in isolation. Sure they cleared $4.1m in cap space.......and got a fifth rounder in the bargain.

But that was only the front half of the deal. They then flipped that Chicago fifth and their own third rounder in 2026 for Zadorov. And Big Z's cap hit actually slides into Beauvillier's roster spot and with a savings of $400,000.

It's been so long since a Canuck front office has been able to pull off a deal like that.....you still have to rub your eyes when it actually happens.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

We might have figured that the Beauvillier deal wasn't done in isolation. Sure they cleared $4.1m in cap space.......and got a fifth rounder in the bargain.

But that was only the front half of the deal. They then flipped that Chicago fifth and their own third rounder in 2026 for Zadorov. And Big Z's cap hit actually slides into Beauvillier's roster spot and with a savings of $400,000.

It's been so long since a Canuck front office has been able to pull off a deal like that.....you still have to rub your eyes when it actually happens.

Thats the problem with modern media. You gotta be in quick with the smartest take. But the smartest take is actually the one that waits for all the information before commenting.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

When Drance talks about opportunity cost. He is ignoring or oblivious to the fact that if the Canucks done the deal in the offseason, and spent the cap space, that to comes with an opportunity cost of players becoming available in season.

 

[m9]

When Drance talks about opportunity cost. He is ignoring or oblivious to the fact that if the Canucks done the deal in the offseason, and spent the cap space, that to comes with an opportunity cost of players becoming available in season.

It's up to them how/when they spend the cap space though, so that's not really anything

 

[Wisp]

Well that's kind of my point - they didn't have those warm bodies (and a bunch of other bodies) earlier this summer when Beauvillier was available so it's at least plausible they could have gotten a deal done. I'm not saying it should have happened or that Allvin blew it by not getting it done.. I'm just saying we have enough information to think maybe they could have pulled this off this summer.

i'm sure the canucks would have liked to have moved someone in the summer but the cost of doing so around then was prohibitive. You'll recall the Canucks had such poor leverage that they were forced to execute one of the most expensive buyouts in NHL history on OEL.

And that improved their leverage, but at that point free agency was two weeks away where teams are more interested prioritizing their resources and commitments towards getting players that fit into their plans and team concepts, not accumulating misfits for assets.

I find Thomas's talk of 'opportunity cost' around this particular transaction especially hindsighty to me. Smart guy but misses the forest for trees sometimes. When he tries to capture every shade of nuance and avoid being black-and-white, he fails in his goal to evaluate things thoughtfully.

 

[MarkMM]

I seem to have missed this, but does anyone know what the condition on this conditional 5th round pick from Chicago?

 

[m9]

I seem to have missed this, but does anyone know what the condition on this conditional 5th round pick from Chicago?

Highest of the two picks Chicago has.

Also, it's already been traded for Zadorov