Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[archangel2]

Like the fact people suddenly realized it was a deal done for the playoffs.

 

[Double Dion]

Z seems like he really wanted to stay in Van, his favorite team growing up, and turned into a locker room leader on top of providing on ice presence, top 4 level D and clutch scoring. Tocchet knows how to utilize his big men.

It was just such a bad trade for us. The only one I really blame Conroy for. Hanifin trade was bad too, but we were in a tough spot there with how his agent handled things. Zadorov is a unique player. He does have some blunders, but he makes some good plays too. You just don't find that combo of skating ability, size and physicality too often. I felt we should have gotten a 2nd and 3rd for him, but we rushed it because of the trade request and locker room dynamic.

 

[HighLifeMan]

That's the Lindholm the Canucks were hoping to see and need to see on a game to game basis. Full marks. He was great last night. He's a beast when he's fully engaged - he just needs to find that consistently now and if he does, the Canucks are in a great spot.

 

[Double Dion]

That's the Lindholm the Canucks were hoping to see and need to see on a game to game basis. Full marks. He was great last night. He's a beast when he's fully engaged - he just needs to find that consistently now and if he does, the Canucks are in a great spot.

He had his pouty pants on in Calgary since the start of last season. It cost him 30M+. He's still a guy who can do everything you need him to though. I don't think he ever scores 40 again, but he can get 30 with the right linemates and 20 with 3rd liners.

 

[blankall]

He had his pouty pants on in Calgary since the start of last season. It cost him 30M+. He's still a guy who can do everything you need him to though. I don't think he ever scores 40 again, but he can get 30 with the right linemates and 20 with 3rd liners.

He was never really a legit 40 goal guy. He scored 40 playing on the top line with amazing linemates he had chemistry with. Lindholm definitely brings his own offensive game and isn't a total leach, but he's definitely more of a 25ish goal center with excellent 2 way play. Really happy to see him making some great contributions elsewhere, especially if it comes at the expense of the grease.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Really bad trade for the Nucks.

Lindholm has been good since returning from some missed games, and was a good target to upgrade the 3C position, but that's not the price they paid nor the intended position he'd fill.

Nucks were weak at the wing before the trade, and now that hole is massive. It also doesn't help the C depth, cause now Pettersson is completely useless without his play driver.

This team was bottom 10 in scoring before Kuz, and went right back to that the day he was traded.

Zadorov, Suter, Blueger, Lafferty, Cole, Hronek etc. The list goes on for moves made to address the overall D and PK. Why the FFFF would you trade away one of your top offensive catalysts and leading goal scorer from the previous year!?

We now have half a dozen wingers, that are combined for ZERO goals in the last 20-30 games.

They traded away the exact skillset they are now missing, in the name of '2 way play'.

Toch should have been strong armed into giving Kuz more rope, or at least a move needed to be made to address the winger void after.

This really aged well.........

 

[CanucksSayEh]

This really aged well.........

Uh, yes? The PP still is awful, and EP line has zero goals through the playoffs. It's nice that they have won in spite of that though, hopefully can keep going.

Not complaining about targeting Lindholm, who has been real good, All of the Canucks board is up in arms over EP's lack of wingers, and yet somehow praises trading away his best winger...

Don't believe for a second this move couldn't have been done without using Mikeyev+ instead. The team would have 3 legit scoring lines.

This wasn't a 1 for 1 deal, and needs to be judged on team performance, over 1 player.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Uh, yes? The PP still is awful, and EP line has zero goals through the playoffs. It's nice that they have won in spite of that though, hopefully can keep going.

Not complaining about targeting Lindholm, who has been real good, All of the Canucks board is up in arms over EP's lack of wingers, and yet somehow praises trading away his best winger...

Don't believe for a second this move couldn't have been done without using Mikeyev+ instead. The team would have 3 legit scoring lines.

This wasn't a 1 for 1 deal, and needs to be judged on team performance, over 1 player.

So the guy who played like shit this year and had 8 goals, repeat 8 goals in 43 games would somehow change that?

Kuz doesn't play well in a winning system, he doesn't. I'll sacrifice that small portion of scoring for the piece of mind that my top 6 winger isn't gonna disappear in his own zone.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

So the guy who played like shit this year and had 8 goals, repeat 8 goals in 43 games would somehow change that?

Kuz doesn't play well in a winning system, he doesn't. I'll sacrifice that small portion of scoring for the piece of mind that my top 6 winger isn't gonna disappear in his own zone.

Lol 'winning system'.

Kuz has more goals than any Canuck winger since joining the league, and finished 2nd only to Boeser this year. Hardly a small sacrifice.

Hard to mock a sophomore half season slump, when we have several wingers COMBINING for less goals over more time. That's disappearing.

Even if you believe Kuz had to go, he needed to be replaced. Team has a huge hole on the W since this trade.

Crazy how many had to eat crow on saying the same things about Boeser + Hoglander, just moving onto the next scape goat.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Lol 'winning system'.

Kuz has more goals than any Canuck winger since joining the league, and finished 2nd only to Boeser this year. Hardly a small sacrifice.

Hard to mock a sophomore half season slump, when we have several wingers COMBINING for less goals over more time. That's disappearing.

Even if you believe Kuz had to go, he needed to be replaced. Team has a huge hole on the W since this trade.

Crazy how many had to eat crow on saying the same things about Boeser + Hoglander, just moving onto the next scape goat.

Yes, in a structured system built for winning he sucks.

Kuz had 8 goals in 43 games for us, what he did in a Calgary system that was not in any way about winning is completely irrelevant, he isn't some young rookie either the guy is 28 FFS.

Our wingers are helping us win games with important goals while the guy who outscored them is golfing, or vacationing again and making asinine work out videos, ya not worried about that.

I agree they had a hole at W, they didn't have the assets to address it, ahh well.

Boeser is 5 times the player Kuz is, had a reason to be distracted the last couple of years and is younger, Hog is 23 and developing nicely playing both ends of the ice, and most importantly both buy into the system, both aren't even comparable.

 

[Double Dion]

Lol 'winning system'.

Kuz has more goals than any Canuck winger since joining the league, and finished 2nd only to Boeser this year. Hardly a small sacrifice.

Hard to mock a sophomore half season slump, when we have several wingers COMBINING for less goals over more time. That's disappearing.

Even if you believe Kuz had to go, he needed to be replaced. Team has a huge hole on the W since this trade.

Crazy how many had to eat crow on saying the same things about Boeser + Hoglander, just moving onto the next scape goat.

Do you want to win or watch goals? You win with Lindholm, you get to watch goals with Kuzmenko. Since the Lindholm trade the Flames are a much worse team despite scoring the same amount of goals.

 

[Bond]

He had his pouty pants on in Calgary since the start of last season. It cost him 30M+. He's still a guy who can do everything you need him to though. I don't think he ever scores 40 again, but he can get 30 with the right linemates and 20 with 3rd liners.

It is also looks like he finally remembered he has to sign a new contract lol

 

[HighLifeMan]

Uh, yes? The PP still is awful, and EP line has zero goals through the playoffs. It's nice that they have won in spite of that though, hopefully can keep going.

Not complaining about targeting Lindholm, who has been real good, All of the Canucks board is up in arms over EP's lack of wingers, and yet somehow praises trading away his best winger...

Don't believe for a second this move couldn't have been done without using Mikeyev+ instead. The team would have 3 legit scoring lines.

This wasn't a 1 for 1 deal, and needs to be judged on team performance, over 1 player.

I don't think it's absurd or wrong at all to believe the Canucks would be an even better team today if Kuzmenko was playing alongside Pettersson and not Mikheyev.. Those two had an established chemistry and very productive run over a large sample size.. Tocchet elected to go away from that pairing and that's when Kuzmenko struggled in a role he's not suited for. Pettersson needs more talent to play with. That much is obvious.

In saying that, I actually don't believe Calgary would have made that trade if it was Mikheyev instead of Kuzmenko. I truly do believe Conroy placed a value on acquiring Kuzmenko.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I don't think it's absurd or wrong at all to believe the Canucks would be an even better team today if Kuzmenko was playing alongside Pettersson and not Mikheyev.. Those two had an established chemistry and very productive run over a large sample size.. Tocchet elected to go away from that pairing and that's when Kuzmenko struggled in a role he's not suited for. Pettersson needs more talent to play with. That much is obvious.

He got plenty of time with EP this year and he was awful, contributed negatively by being a detriment defensively, only reason he was moved.

We are not a better team with him in the lineup. Especially in the playoffs, where Kuz would be even more of a detriment.

 

[sting101]

Should be able to close the book on this fleecing pretty soon here.

Not that I needed to wait, I knew Lindholm was extremely overrated before the trade.

Hows the humble pie?

 

[Double Dion]

Hows the humble pie?

You're responding to maybe the worst poster on the forum. Unless the Oilers get more than 3 PPs per game, this will be a short series for the Canucks.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

I don't think it's absurd or wrong at all to believe the Canucks would be an even better team today if Kuzmenko was playing alongside Pettersson and not Mikheyev.. Those two had an established chemistry and very productive run over a large sample size.. Tocchet elected to go away from that pairing and that's when Kuzmenko struggled in a role he's not suited for. Pettersson needs more talent to play with. That much is obvious.

In saying that, I actually don't believe Calgary would have made that trade if it was Mikheyev instead of Kuzmenko. I truly do believe Conroy placed a value on acquiring Kuzmenko.

I don't doubt Flames valued Kuz, but I think a deal gets done with Mikeyev+, at least gotta try. This is the year to go all in, and they half assed. Now gonna have 2 holes in the offseason as EL is a rental contract.

Many still underrate Kuz', and what he did for that EP line. EP had a career high 68p before Kuz, and he's right back to that since the trade. Miller - Kuz was also the core of the PP forward group, which has cratered.

He may be a bit older, but age is mostly important due to experience. Only his 2nd year in the league, new language, 2 coaches etc.

The team didn't really improve, it just swapped the 2nd line for the 3rd. Before the trade the Nucks would have been favored over both Nashville and EDM. Lindholm looks so good because his line has played hero. They only get to play hero because the EP line and PP have done jack shit.

 

[HighLifeMan]

He got plenty of time with EP this year and he was awful, contributed negatively by being a detriment defensively, only reason he was moved.

We are not a better team with him in the lineup. Especially in the playoffs, where Kuz would be even more of a detriment.

Personally, I don't think you can definitively say that. Tocc may not have liked the player but the data suggests that Kuzmenko/Pettersson were a high end pair together (even to begin the year). Dating back to the start of February - Pettersson has just 7 goals, 21 assists, 28 points, +2 in 41 games which is far, far worse than the production he had at any point with Kuzmenko.

 

[oceanchild]

Lol 'winning system'.

Kuz has more goals than any Canuck winger since joining the league, and finished 2nd only to Boeser this year. Hardly a small sacrifice.

Hard to mock a sophomore half season slump, when we have several wingers COMBINING for less goals over more time. That's disappearing.

Even if you believe Kuz had to go, he needed to be replaced. Team has a huge hole on the W since this trade.

Crazy how many had to eat crow on saying the same things about Boeser + Hoglander, just moving onto the next scape goat.

Kuz can score and brings some tools for sure, but in his current form, he isn’t a player you can win with or trust.

Personally, I don't think you can definitively say that. Tocc may not have liked the player but the data suggests that Kuzmenko/Pettersson were a high end pair together (even to begin the year). Dating back to the start of February - Pettersson has just 7 goals, 21 assists, 28 points, +2 in 41 games which is far, far worse than the production he had at any point with Kuzmenko.

Correlation doesn’t mean causation. Petey also signed a new contract and may be struggling with the expectations.

 

[wintersej]

Lindholm is soooo good! He honestly reminds me of Patrice Bergeron. Always on the right spot, elite defensively and very high IQ. Nothing flashy.

I dont know if the Canucks can afford him, but id love to re-sign him long term.

His game is built for a 7 game series.

The difference is that Bergeron drove possession at an elite rate by dominating center ice and Lindholm doesn’t do that.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Kuz can score and brings some tools for sure, but in his current form, he isn’t a player you can win with or trust.


Correlation doesn’t mean causation. Petey also signed a new contract and may be struggling with the expectations.

Im not buying this 'can't win with' stuff. The entire core underachieved for years and were given that label.

Pretty much the whole Nucks board is in agreement, the PP sucks, and EP needs a winger. We had that guy, who wanted to be here, and had cost certainty for next season. We are even firing up the trade Mikeyev thread. No hindsight needed for the problems we have now.

Tocc just had a beef with Kuz, pretty much every coach in the league has some weird issue with a good player, and love affair for a plug or two.

Im enjoying the ride, but we are damn lucky to be able to discuss Lindholm vs the Oilers, when the EP line and PP almost cost the Nashville series.

 

[Rowlet]

Im not buying this 'can't win with' stuff. The entire core underachieved for years and were given that label.

Pretty much the whole Nucks board is in agreement, the PP sucks, and EP needs a winger. We had that guy, who wanted to be here, and had cost certainty for next season. We are even firing up the trade Mikeyev thread. No hindsight needed for the problems we have now.

Tocc just had a beef with Kuz, pretty much every coach in the league has some weird issue with a good player, and love affair for a plug or two.

Im enjoying the ride, but we are damn lucky to be able to discuss Lindholm vs the Oilers, when the EP line and PP almost cost the Nashville series.

In this instance, having cost certainty is bad. The Canucks needed that cap space for Pettersson and Hronek, as well as any number of Myers, Zadorov, Tanev, Toffoli, Lindholm, Joshua, or Guentzel.

I like Kuzmenko, I didn't think he got a fair shot here, but he's not worth 2/3rds of a Guentzel, or Tanev + half a Zadorov. Ultimately I'm glad he's gone because it allows the team to do a lot more this off-season, Allvin has already proven himself to be a wizard with the cap, and someone who understands how deals are made. If the Canucks can move Mikheyev this off-season, the team could make some sizeable roster improvements.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Personally, I don't think you can definitively say that. Tocc may not have liked the player but the data suggests that Kuzmenko/Pettersson were a high end pair together (even to begin the year). Dating back to the start of February - Pettersson has just 7 goals, 21 assists, 28 points, +2 in 41 games which is far, far worse than the production he had at any point with Kuzmenko.

Based on minutes played together you bet I can.

They played well together last year in a open system that doesn't include winning, Kuz had a completely unrealistic shooting % as well.

 

[sting101]

Im not buying this 'can't win with' stuff. The entire core underachieved for years and were given that label.

Pretty much the whole Nucks board is in agreement, the PP sucks, and EP needs a winger. We had that guy, who wanted to be here, and had cost certainty for next season. We are even firing up the trade Mikeyev thread. No hindsight needed for the problems we have now.

Tocc just had a beef with Kuz, pretty much every coach in the league has some weird issue with a good player, and love affair for a plug or two.

Im enjoying the ride, but we are damn lucky to be able to discuss Lindholm vs the Oilers, when the EP line and PP almost cost the Nashville series.

i agree with this and the highlighted is most certainly the biggest reason why Kuzmenko was moved. Tocc wanted buy in and you can bet your ass that Kuzmenko and the Bali shenanigans while others were busting their asses to get better last off season didn't sit well.

Hi literally signed a 11million dollar contract and went partying for his summer and the proof was in his play conditioning and effort. Tocchet was pissed because he warned of that before he left even.

The fact he was having a terrible season while the team was dragging him along and he was becoming unplayable in Tocchets system for months was the final nail. Has nothing to do with what Kuzmenko is capable of. The Flames got a hell of an offensive player for free essentially because of the timing and a fractured trust/relationship

It's really too bad for Pettersson as he had a winger with enough talent that the 2 would drive a top6 line together now he's stuck with a energy player and a checker. For the Flames it was a free gift and absolutely he can improve his defending/decision making to be a top player. Will he is the question

Great trade for the Flames as they get some really interesting high end potential but it's also been exactly what Van hoped for from a deadline deal since Lindholm has stepped up big in this playoffs and without him during Pettersson's struggles we would be toast....hoping they can find a way to retain him EL is a fantastic 2 way player.

 

[Fig]

From the beginning, both teams fan bases were kinda surprised at the scope of the deal. But in the end it turned out that both sides moved players that didn't fit (Kuzmenko/Jurmo) or didn't want to be there (Lindholm/Brewski). Add the Zadorov trade (didn't want to be there/didn't fit) and the only innocent pieces in the whole thing are seemingly the picks.

With more hindsight, I honestly feel this trade (and you can include the Zadorov one as well) was a trade that both orgs needed but not necessarily wanted. That's why both fan bases seem so fractured in loving and hating it at the same time.