Pre-Game Talk: V for Victory in Vancouver

[RegDunlop]

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with you on this. Hes physical, is able to be a pest and can make some plays with skill. Shore is useless.

I honestly don't get the shit on Shore hate. He's a fourth liner who can pk. He is what he is. I've never minded his game.

 

[TKB21]

Benson is terrible. Shores left nut has more impact on a hockey game than Benson.

Our worst forward this year.

Yeah I don’t know how anyone could prefer Benson to Shore. Shore is far from a player I like but he’s sooooo much better then the
black hole that is Benson.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Which Devin Shore do you guys watch play on a nightly basis?

Is it #14 on the Oilers? He's horrible

The old adage is a team's goaltender is it's best penalty killers. The Oilers goalie save percentage while short-handed is Koskinen .853; Skinner .889; band-aid Smith .865.

NHL Stats

Sub-average, frankly league bottom level goaltending (along with key PK personnel lost to injuries) has sewered this team's PK rate. Shore is no world beater but there's a lot going on beyond his play alone that's sunk this team's PK.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think you underestimate the value of cutbacks/quick changes of direction for small forwards. That's a vital way to gain space and evade checks.

You do have a point though that Yamamoto needs to start using his speed more. I think that's a bad habit that's developed from playing with Draisaitl, who thrives from a physical/cycle game. Hopefully a faster line with McLeod and McDavid helps him overcome that.

Yama for some reason doesn't have the kind of edges and quick cutbacks that a lot of smaller players have. He's not as dynamic on edges as he should be, and needs to be to be an effective player at this level. he gets clobbered more than most small players do. He's not confident creating separation with the puck.

Somewhere in Yama's nature theres a life learned dynamic of "I'll show people I can take and give a hit" Its whats worked for him all his life to be that, and to have that resolve. But I think on some level it fails him at the NHL Level because once he's in those scrums and battles in closed ice, he's invariably going to lose a lot of them.

In anycase Lucic is a lunchbucket skater and fairly easy to evade. I've seen countless times where players left Lucic in his jockstrap. Yama isn't showing premium shake. Lucic handled that backcheck so easily. It was sad to see. At least Yama needs to be less predictable.

We both agree that Yama is altering based on Drai. But he shouldn't. What he should be is puck support by constantly moving his feet and looking for open spots. For some reason he's more effective at that deep than he on halfboards. Its kind of strange, and lots of time yama is too close to Drai. So that players can converge and seal both. He's like the reciever thats running the wrong pattern, crossing, and makes the defenders job in coverage easier, if that makes any sense. lol as well that Pulju is the player most likely on the team to run right into his linemate. its kind of funny. It even happens in practices. Pulju took Drai out just last week with a solid hit...lol

 

[Llamamoto]

Yama for some reason doesn't have the kind of edges and quick cutbacks that a lot of smaller players have. He's not as dynamic on edges as he should be, and needs to be to be an effective player at this level. he gets clobbered more than most small players do. He's not confident creating separation with the puck.

Somewhere in Yama's nature theres a life learned dynamic of "I'll show people I can take and give a hit" Its whats worked for him all his life to be that, and to have that resolve. But I think on some level it fails him at the NHL Level because once he's in those scrums and battles in closed ice, he's invariably going to lose a lot of them.

In anycase Lucic is a lunchbucket skater and fairly easy to evade. I've seen countless times where players left Lucic in his jockstrap. Yama isn't showing premium shake. Lucic handled that backcheck so easily. It was sad to see. At least Yama needs to be less predictable.

We both agree that Yama is altering based on Drai. But he shouldn't. What he should be is puck support by constantly moving his feet and looking for open spots. For some reason he's more effective at that deep than he on halfboards. Its kind of strange, and lots of time yama is too close to Drai. So that players can converge and seal both. He's like the reciever thats running the wrong pattern, crossing, and makes the defenders job in coverage easier, if that makes any sense. lol as well that Pulju is the player most likely on the team to run right into his linemate. its kind of funny. It even happens in practices. Pulju took Drai out just last week with a solid hit...lol

His edges (outside edges in particularly) are very strong. It's explosiveness that he lacks. His acceleration and top speed both aren't ideal for a small guy. Hopefully he puts a lot of emphasis on that next offseason.

 

[Mr Kot]

If we can pull a string of wins, that would be great. Would love to see more bouchard on the pp

 

[Forgot About Drai]

lol indeed. Shores last 32 pt season was 4 yrs ago, not 6 but apparently you have to distort that too. Why willfully misrepresent. Do you think that adds credibility?

OK, even playing that silly game Shore has 7goals and 12 pts as an Oiler in 58 games. yeah, not much, but Benson has 1 pt. Benson hasn't even scored a goal.

You were the one stating Shore has zero skill, doesn't add anything, and that Benson is obviously more talented, anybody would agree with that blah blah...

My position is neither player is a legit NHLer. But to say that Benson adds more is just silly.

Willfully misrepresent ? Calm down man, I thought it was around 2016 which from 22 is like 6 years. Its not that serious man.

My point is that we havent given Benson the chance to be a legit nhler. Hes being yo-yo'd back and forth from PB to the ice, on an extremely tight leash and has had zero consistency. What I have seen from him is a guy who works hard every shift, throws the body around and has opponents extremely annoyed at him.

That + his production at the AHL level I would like to see him given a given a legitimate chance over someone like Shore who we know cant play anymore. The thing that Shore does well, which is to play a zero sum game on the 4th line hasnt been true since 4-5****** years ago.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I honestly don't get the shit on Shore hate. He's a fourth liner who can pk. He is what he is. I've never minded his game.

I'm kind of balanced on him. I like some looks from him in Ozone and that he can be physical, play a cycle, occasionally score. But he can really get caught in own zone chasing, and its been the drawback in his game. his defensive liabilities and tendency to look off in own zone has been a problem. Its sad too. With his talent, if had more Peca or Pisani pick ability in him he could be quite a player. his best goal ever scored was a brilliant pick off and he went in on a breakway and scored a beauty for us last season. But he doesn't make those reads nearly enough. I think he could. That said Pisani and Peca had a lot better first stride acceleration which is what premium counter players need.

man, when we had a line of Peca, Pisani, Torres, how fun was that? loved those guys.. Counter kings.

 

[bone]

nobody is saying different. The discussion was around Benson vs Shore. In that case, somehow, Shore is the better option despite being a pretty horrible option. Which doesn't say much about Benson. lol

The only thing I give Benson over Shore is that there possibly remains some untapped potential, whereas we know Shore's top end, and it isn't nice.

However, that is mostly nullified by the fact that at the same points in their career Shore had shown much more than Benson has to this point, so the likelihood of any of this untapped potential coming to light is marginal at best.

It's like arguing which boiled cabbage recipe is best, when they all taste like ass.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

The only thing I give Benson over Shore is that there possibly remains some untapped potential, whereas we know Shore's top end, and it isn't nice.

However, that is mostly nullified by the fact that at the same points in their career Shore had shown much more than Benson has to this point, so the likelihood of any of this untapped potential coming to light is marginal at best.

It's like arguing which boiled cabbage recipe is best, when they all taste like ass.

You have summed up my argument in one line when I couldnt do it in multiple posts haha. Not very eloquent today.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Willfully misrepresent ? Calm down man, I thought it was around 2016 which from 22 is like 6 years. Its not that serious man.

My point is that we havent given Benson the chance to be a legit nhler. Hes being yo-yo'd back and forth from PB to the ice, on an extremely tight leash and has had zero consistency. What I have seen from him is a guy who works hard every shift, throws the body around and has opponents extremely annoyed at him.

That + his production at the AHL level I would like to see him given a given a legitimate chance over someone like Shore who we know cant play anymore. The thing that Shore does well, which is to play a zero sum game on the 4th line hasnt been true since 4-5****** years ago.

haha

Sorry, I'm a bit testy at times. Yesterday it was raining all day (in f***ing January) and today its snowing on top of the glare ice again established yesterday. So that going outside had been limited and the sun hasn't shone since Saturday. heh.

just a pet peeve when people discount and get the numbers wrong or frame a comment a certain way.

Clearly Shore is a better option offensively than Benson has been. Even here, as an Oiler. I mean look at the 7 goals Shore has scored for us and then try to tell me he doesn't bring any skill. Unfortunately for us Benson hasn't shown any offensive finish here yet. I keep waiting. do something...

 

[FlameChampion]

Which Devin Shore do you guys watch play on a nightly basis?

Is it #14 on the Oilers? He's horrible

Not sure why JP hasn’t been tried on the PK. Big and rangy.

 

[oilers'72]

"V for Victory in Vancouver"

 

[Drivesaitl]

The only thing I give Benson over Shore is that there possibly remains some untapped potential, whereas we know Shore's top end, and it isn't nice.

However, that is mostly nullified by the fact that at the same points in their career Shore had shown much more than Benson has to this point, so the likelihood of any of this untapped potential coming to light is marginal at best.

It's like arguing which boiled cabbage recipe is best, when they all taste like ass.

The bolded quote would come in handy on a lot of these PGT's lol

but who the hell boils cabbage, lol. Its a lot better sauteed, or in chines food, or Ukrainian food. or even as coleslaw. Or as sauerkraut or....

I never heard of anybody boiling cabbage. that would be sad.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not sure why JP hasn’t been tried on the PK. Big and rangy.

Because his run into his own team mates per 60mins is way too high. Meaning that when he wipes out somebody theres only two pk bowling pins left standing.

I'm half joking, and I like Pulju, and the thought is interesting but Pulju plays like a rover, you never know where he is. Somehow the chasing bee's meme that Yak had to endure hasn't come up. But they both do it lots. Facet of playing a skating game on large ice? Pulju still skates wide circles on NHL ice. Somebody tell him to cut sharper. hehe

 

[bone]

The bolded quote would come in handy on a lot of these PGT's lol

but who the hell boils cabbage, lol. Its a lot better sauteed, or in chines food, or Ukrainian food. or even as coleslaw. Or as sauerkraut or....

I never heard of anybody boiling cabbage. that would be sad.

I've never actually had it, but my dad wouldn't touch cabbage throughout my youth because his parents made boiled cabbage growing up. Like you say, lots of great uses for cabbage, why did anyone think boiling it was a good choice, I'll never understand.

 

[BudBundy]

Bensons own zone pass in the third period in a tie game was horrid. he made a few hits in the game. Botched more scoring chances and isn't really doing a lot. I mean I'm fine with him being in or out of the lineup but he doesn't move the dial one iota. Its like complaining about Shore being in or out. Really it doesn't matter. neither of these are even remotely valid NHL players.

McLeod has been showing for the last year and a half what it takes, and the effort, to crack a team. Benson hasn't been anywhere close to forcing himself in the lineup. he barely even has niche facets of his game.

I really like McLoed but when Derek Ryan has been pretty awful this year and Perlini has shown quite a bit in limited minutes, what would be wrong with Mcd, Drai, Nuge and McLoed up the middle? That looks pretty strong to me.

 

[FlameChampion]

Because his run into his own team mates per 60mins is way too high. Meaning that when he wipes out somebody theres only two pk bowling pins left standing.

I'm half joking, and I like Pulju, and the thought is interesting but Pulju plays like a rover, you never know where he is. Somehow the chasing bee's meme that Yak had to endure hasn't come up. But they both do it lots. Facet of playing a skating game on large ice? Pulju still skates wide circles on NHL ice. Somebody tell him to cut sharper. hehe

Yeah he might not be a good PK'er but I still dont like the fact that it hasnt really been tried.

 

[mcdingdong]

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with you on this. Hes physical, is able to be a pest and can make some plays with skill. Shore is useless.

The sum total of Benson's "contribution" this year has been several senseless penalties. That's it. Do not understand what anyone sees in this player. Too slow and too small to get separation in the NHL and generate time to use his vision (undoubtedly his best asset). Weak shot. Just a nothing player at this level.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

You throw Kane (much as I dislike the smoke and douchery around him) and Hyman into the mix, running Mcd-Drai-Nuge at 1-2-3 becomes a very effective option.
McLeod with McDavid just makes sense. The line needs to maximize its threat on the rush.
Shelters the 4th line as well by bolstering the 3rd line to be an actual threat.

McLeod-McDavid-Yamamoto
Kane-Drai-Puljujarvi
Hyman-Nuge-XXXX

Than suddenly you have good interchangeable options remaining for 4 spots for the 3RW and for salvaging a serviceable 4th line from Foegele, Kassian, Perlini, Ryan, Sceviour, Benson, Shore, Turris, Griffith etc. You can literally make the training camp projected "strongest 3rd line in hockey lol f*** you Holland" into the 4th line with Foegele-Ryan-Kassian if you wanted.

And then if all projections regarding Holloway come through (where I think we should temper our expectations, he's not going to be an automatic saviour immediately, lots of healing and developing there still), I think he's a boost to the 4th line as well. Hopefully at minimum he can supplant Shore (blech).

Any way you slice it, that 3rd line and 4th line can take on more minutes and help get our impact players some softer minutes.

Still think we need to fire Holland/Tippett, but you still have to go for it this season, can't just fold. Kane, Holloway, and hopefully some kind of top 4 D boost and a goalie via the deadline (or before) could place us in the picture.

 

[29Beast97Mode]

Tippett fired yet?

 

[VainGretzky]

Yeah disagree with Kass. He was bringing it the first few games of the year but fallen off the map since.

ideally when/if Kane signs, you structure the lineup in pairs:

Kane/McDavid
Draisaitl/Puljujarvi
RNH/Hyman

and fill in the complementary players as you see fit or based on who is hot / chemistry.

Yes and they can reduce Drai and McDavids time on shifts I remember when the year AVS won the cup they kept Forsberg and Sakic to 45 sec shifts and under and their production was up it will also improve bottom 6 scoring

 

[BlackDogg]

Tippett fired yet?

The win against Calgary prolonged it by at least 14 games.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I honestly don't get the shit on Shore hate. He's a fourth liner who can pk. He is what he is. I've never minded his game.

Devin Shore can PK?

Just because the coach sends him out there to PK doesn't mean he can do it.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The old adage is a team's goaltender is it's best penalty killers. The Oilers goalie save percentage while short-handed is Koskinen .853; Skinner .889; band-aid Smith .865.

NHL Stats

Sub-average, frankly league bottom level goaltending (along with key PK personnel lost to injuries) has sewered this team's PK rate. Shore is no world beater but there's a lot going on beyond his play alone that's sunk this team's PK.

Okay.

Compare him to his teammates then, and hes still much worse than the rest besides maybe ryan.