UPDATE 2/26 No more extensions in LeBreton mediation, Heritage minister says

[Bookie21]

Not sure who is worse, Melnyk or that trash organization National Capital Commission. Both corrupt blowhards

 

[NorthCoast]

Also in the tweet thread.



Where else could a new arena possibly go downtown? Bigger question is, who on earth can partner with him to make another location (or Lebreton 2.0) happen?

Where else is he going to have a 4b project involved to help cover construction costs is my question.

This looks like more posturing on all sides. I can’t stand any of them at this point.

 

[Fenway]

The Ottawa Senators seem to be following the Montreal Expos playbook.

 

[SunDancer]

Curious. If somebody else builds an arena downtown and starts to take events away from the CTC, how much would it affect Melnyk to have another arena in town competing for business?

 

[Mightygoose]

Saw this on the Sens board today.



Looks like a framework on a deal was in place, hence the reason for the extension but according to this it was Melnyk why the deal wasn't reached.

Did it die simply because Melnyk wouldn't/couldn't contribute to the project? Was equity in the team discussed and he balked at it.

In hindsight, it's too bad the extension was given and the NCC could already be on the new plan.

So once again in all facets, this is an organization that cannot close any deals.

Melnyk is a actually closer.....just drop the 'c'

 

[GrantLemons]

Curious. If somebody else builds an arena downtown and starts to take events away from the CTC, how much would it affect Melnyk to have another arena in town competing for business?

Probably drastically, but it's not likely to get that far. It's not financially feasible for someone else (DCDLS) to build an arena at Lebreton without the Sens in hand as the main tenant.

We'll get a better idea on March 7th, when the NCC meets publicly to determine next steps. Maybe the rights go to the runner up (DCDLS), who openly wants an arena, and to own the Sens. Maybe Ruddy is now involved with DCDLS on this second go?

As always with this stupid process, there are more questions than answers.

 

[madhi19]

Melnyk holding down potential new league revenues affects the other owners only very minimally. They don't get a take from his tickets. They only get a piece of the merchandising (and none if it's a Senators store). The TV won't change. etc. It's only affecting him, really.

It depend on if he's getting RS or not. Do they want to prop up another team? Especially one that the league might feel that if it were properly managed it would not need propping up.

Note: Crazy idea come to mind, but if you want to be closer to downtown Ottawa you could find some land in Gatineau or Hull.

 

[LadyStanley]

31 Thoughts: How Golden Knights won the Mark Stone sweepstakes - Sportsnet.ca

Friedman with some specifics

On LeBreton Flats, Ottawa’s downtown-arena plan: One of the rumours coming out of the partnership’s dissolution would be starting the project under what is called “the Donut Plan.” That would mean development of the retail/condominium properties with a hole where the arena could eventually go. What no one says with any certainty is if that can happen without a full re-start of the process, and we probably won’t know for at least another week. The other major question is if the federal government will hold things until after the upcoming election. (That’s been assumed for awhile now, but no 100 per cent guarantee.) If fans stay away, that increases the revenue-sharing owed to the Senators. Eugene Melnyk loves owning the Ottawa Senators. And, even if he wanted to sell, the $400 million (USD) offered last summer won’t get past the league office.

So, apparently, the league isn't interested in a sale price on the Sens of less than $400m. (Perhaps north of $500m?)

 

[SunDancer]

Probably drastically, but it's not likely to get that far. It's not financially feasible for someone else (DCDLS) to build an arena at Lebreton without the Sens in hand as the main tenant.

We'll get a better idea on March 7th, when the NCC meets publicly to determine next steps. Maybe the rights go to the runner up (DCDLS), who openly wants an arena, and to own the Sens. Maybe Ruddy is now involved with DCDLS on this second go?

As always with this stupid process, there are more questions than answers.

I wonder. There's talk of a "donut" approach where the new developer goes ahead with the project but leaves a "hole" left reserved for an arena. That would leave their options open for some kind of resolution that could include the Sens in the future.

If that's the case and Melnyk still refuses to cooperate, the next step would be to build the arena (or threaten to build it) and compete directly with the CTC. Just not sure how much business Melnyk would lose in that scenario.

 

[GrantLemons]

I wonder. There's talk of a "donut" approach where the new developer goes ahead with the project but leaves a "hole" left reserved for an arena. That would leave their options open for some kind of resolution that could include the Sens in the future.

If that's the case and Melnyk still refuses to cooperate, the next step would be to build the arena (or threaten to build it) and compete directly with the CTC. Just not sure how much business Melnyk would lose in that scenario.

Or they would threaten to not build it, which in a way would be just as detrimental. I think everyone believe there's no way Eugene is building an arena somewhere else in the city (like he alleges he's looking into), so shutting the door completely on Lebreton would be a bit of a killing blow for the Sens.

 

[powerstuck]

31 Thoughts: How Golden Knights won the Mark Stone sweepstakes - Sportsnet.ca

Friedman with some specifics


So, apparently, the league isn't interested in a sale price on the Sens of less than $400m. (Perhaps north of $500m?)

Is this really a surprise. They just charged Seattle $650M and a year or two ago Vegas another $500M.

Sport franchise values are about 95% speculative*, so the league sticking to a minimum sale price is a given.

* No one will make me gob that LA Clippers were really worth $2B. Ballmer paid that price because he could and he would. Everything else just followed.

 

[Mightygoose]

Or they would threaten to not build it, which in a way would be just as detrimental. I think everyone believe there's no way Eugene is building an arena somewhere else in the city (like he alleges he's looking into), so shutting the door completely on Lebreton would be a bit of a killing blow for the Sens.

I'm thinking with the 'donut' plan. Get the process with the NCC, federal governments, Algonquin consolations, soil remediation, city approval/rezoning etc...out of the way. Even if it takes 4-5 years or so. The it's just a negotiation between the new developers (perhaps Devcore) and Melnyk.

This will buy allot of time to get a deal or sale with the Sens. Even after LeBreton 2.0 gets built, nothing has to happen with the hole for years afterwards. Remove deadlines which doesn't work with Melnyk anyways.

 

[SunDancer]

It depend on if he's getting RS or not. Do they want to prop up another team? Especially one that the league might feel that if it were properly managed it would not need propping up.

Note: Crazy idea come to mind, but if you want to be closer to downtown Ottawa you could find some land in Gatineau or Hull.

The problem with Gatineau is public transportation and moving game day crowds in and out of the area efficiently. The big plus of the Lebreton site is not only its central location but also its proximity to two LRT lines.

The other issue is of course Melnyk. He doesn't have the skills of developer and he's already failed twice in his attempts to develop parcels of land in Ottawa, once for a casino and once for a proposed MLS soccer field. At this point, his reputation in the city is so poor, it's hard to see him pulling anything off.

 

[TheLegend]

Is this really a surprise. They just charged Seattle $650M and a year or two ago Vegas another $500M.

Sport franchise values are about 95% speculative*, so the league sticking to a minimum sale price is a given.

* No one will make me gob that LA Clippers were really worth $2B. Ballmer paid that price because he could and he would. Everything else just followed.

Can't blame them. What would the franchise value be in LeBreton versus in Kanata??? According to what I see people say it'd be a hell of a lot more.

 

[powerstuck]

Can't blame them. What would the franchise value be in LeBreton versus in Kanata??? According to what I see people say it'd be a hell of a lot more.

Well probably just arena value wise, it would be a lot more. Melnyk IIRC owns Canadian Tire Center, so I guess the team would be sold without the arena and the (new) owner would also become owner/part-owner of the new arena.

I guess Melnyk could make cash on both Sens sale and then the CTC/terrain sale.

 

[NorthCoast]

Is this really a surprise. They just charged Seattle $650M and a year or two ago Vegas another $500M.

Sport franchise values are about 95% speculative*, so the league sticking to a minimum sale price is a given.

* No one will make me gob that LA Clippers were really worth $2B. Ballmer paid that price because he could and he would. Everything else just followed.

If that number includes debt then yes, it’s low. I also wonder if Melnyk has taken advantage of NHL debt financing and that they are now a creditor. Could the purchase proposal have included relief of any NHL debt? Could explain why Melnyk might have been a yes but the NHL a no.


If it didn’t include the debt then you are looking at 400 mil + 150-250 debt + 500 mil for a new stadium.

400 may be low but 1b is probably a little much a owner coming into a Small market.

Don’t know what the NHL does here other than ask the City for more money, agree to a below market price, or wait for Melnyk to declare bankruptcy.

 

[powerstuck]

If that number includes debt then yes, it’s low. I also wonder if Melnyk has taken advantage of NHL debt financing and that they are now a creditor. Could the purchase proposal have included relief of any NHL debt? Could explain why Melnyk might have been a yes but the NHL a no.


If it didn’t include the debt then you are looking at 400 mil + 150-250 debt + 500 mil for a new stadium.

400 may be low but 1b is probably a little much a owner coming into a Small market.

Don’t know what the NHL does here other than ask the City for more money, agree to a below market price, or wait for Melnyk to declare bankruptcy.

Sure, 1B is a lot of cash for any market, not just small markets.

Besides, can anyone define what a small market is ? Because a city with 1M or less of population, that charges the same or bigger prices than Los Angeles for hockey, that fills its barn day in day out...I don't define that as a small market.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Sure, 1B is a lot of cash for any market, not just small markets.

Besides, can anyone define what a small market is ? Because a city with 1M or less of population, that charges the same or bigger prices than Los Angeles for hockey, that fills its barn day in day out...I don't define that as a small market.

But no way they can sell the suites at the same price as team in LA or San Jose.

Which is what makes NHL teams the big dough.

 

[justafan22]

just sell the team eugene

 

[MXD]

The problem with Gatineau is public transportation and moving game day crowds in and out of the area efficiently. The big plus of the Lebreton site is not only its central location but also its proximity to two LRT lines.

... Not to mention, the not-so-slight problematic of potential provincial funding.

 

[Mightygoose]

https://www.tsn.ca/bettman-denies-possibility-of-sens-moving-is-confident-in-melnyk-1.1268794

Bettman gets paid to be confident in Melnyk

 

[Bookie21]

https://www.tsn.ca/bettman-denies-possibility-of-sens-moving-is-confident-in-melnyk-1.1268794

Bettman gets paid to be confident in Melnyk

Bettman has to be confident. He's employed by Melnyk. If he didn't show confidence in ownership he wouldn't have a job

 

[Fenway]

https://www.tsn.ca/bettman-denies-possibility-of-sens-moving-is-confident-in-melnyk-1.1268794

Bettman gets paid to be confident in Melnyk

Bettman maintained that he and the league will not interfere in the Senators' affairs unless the situation called for it.
"I haven't been asked to step in and we'll always help when it's appropriate and we're asked," he said.

TRANSLATION - As long as the Senators meet payroll we won't get involved.

 

[Mightygoose]

NCC to roll out LeBreton Flats redevelopment in stages — with door open for an NHL arena

Apparently the land is to be broken in 5 pieces with the Eastern portion the 'Library District' being the closest to being ready.

I don't think the arena in the RVL proposal was going to go in that part. Can anyone more familiar with the area chime in?

Overall, it appears an arena can still be part of the plan but a longer vision. That longer vision will start in June with NCC approval in November.

RFPs for the various plots to come be issued next year. Lots of time for the Sens to recalibrate, hopefully with new majority ownership soon.

 

[SunDancer]

Bettman maintained that he and the league will not interfere in the Senators' affairs unless the situation called for it.
"I haven't been asked to step in and we'll always help when it's appropriate and we're asked," he said.

TRANSLATION - As long as the Senators meet payroll we won't get involved.

I wonder. In order to protect the credibility of the NHL's brand, NHL owners must have certain operational obligations besides just financial.

I also assume the Senators must be receiving revenue sharing from the league, so missing out on a lucrative arena opportunity has to be upsetting to the folks at head office. If Melnyk runs the franchise into the ground and burns the market due to incompetence, you would think the NHL would get involved even if he does keep meeting payroll.