Recalled/Assigned: Update 12/20: Nieto recalled from SF.

[LadyStanley]

Nieto has now been assigned to the SF Bulls in what I'm assuming is simply a roster move.

SanJoseSharks 11:46am via TweetDeck #SJSharks reassign forward @matt_nieto to the @SFBulls of the ECHL.


Fear the Fin thinks it might be cap related.


Also, if the Sharks are healthy, there isn't much need for Nieto to play. Bulls have games Friday, Saturday, Sunday.


"Trade" freeze is 12/19-12/26. Also no "call ups" or assignments unless there is an "emergency" (injury) need.

(And being in SF, is a lot closer to family in Long Beach for Christmas break, than having to fly cross country to Worcester and back for same.)

 

[sr228]

SanJoseSharks 11:46am via TweetDeck #SJSharks reassign forward @matt_nieto to the @SFBulls of the ECHL.


Fear the Fin thinks it might be cap related.


Also, if the Sharks are healthy, there isn't much need for Nieto to play. Bulls have games Friday, Saturday, Sunday.


"Trade" freeze is 12/19-12/26. Also no "call ups" or assignments unless there is an "emergency" (injury) need.

(And being in SF, is a lot closer to family in Long Beach for Christmas break, than having to fly cross country to Worcester and back for same.)

I can't imagine he'll play for the Bulls, it would be a HUGE risk by the org if he does. If they wanted him to play Worcester also has a 3 in 3 this weekend.

I'm guessing he probably get re-called tomorrow.

 

[210]

The chance Nieto plays for SF is about as close to zero as one can get without it actually being zero...

 

[19sharks19]

Trade incoming

Word on this side is the leafs actively shopping Liles and Gardner again. they are in desperate need of centres.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Word on this side is the leafs actively shopping Liles and Gardner again. they are in desperate need of centres.

That would be stupid considering they are in deep **** on defense. Fraser, Franson and Ranger are terrible. We all have complaints with Irwin and Stuart but it could be worse.

 

[hockeyball]

Word on this side is the leafs actively shopping Liles and Gardner again. they are in desperate need of centres.

Not sure how we would help them...

We sure are not sending them Thornton, Hertl, Marleau, Couture or Pavelski.

That leaves Kennedy, Wingels, Hamilton, Sheppard, Desjardins, Burish, McCarthy...

The only two of that group that would likely interest the Leafs are Kennedy and Wingels. Hell if they'll take Hamilton or Sheppard or Burish for Gardiner great... but I doubt it.

 

[sr228]

Kevin Kurz @KKurzCSN
I get the impression from McLellan - and I could be wrong here - that Nieto won’t play any games in San Francisco. #SJSharks

Pretty much what I expected.

I have no idea why they did this though, it's a strange move.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Pretty much what I expected.

I have no idea why they did this though, it's a strange move.

The only plausible explanation is to save on cap dollars spent or open up a roster spot for someone.

 

[19sharks19]

That would be stupid considering they are in deep **** on defense. Fraser, Franson and Ranger are terrible. We all have complaints with Irwin and Stuart but it could be worse.

So true but, they pretty much have no centres as most out injured, and for some time. Only 4th liners. They are more desperate for centres than D (they do have a couple good young D's in the minors in which it is seeming once they move a couple bodies, they will possibly be trying out and some in the media are talking about (eg. Brennan, whom is having an awesome season, and Holzer possibly).

 

[19sharks19]

Not sure how we would help them...

We sure are not sending them Thornton, Hertl, Marleau, Couture or Pavelski.

That leaves Kennedy, Wingels, Hamilton, Sheppard, Desjardins, Burish, McCarthy...

The only two of that group that would likely interest the Leafs are Kennedy and Wingels. Hell if they'll take Hamilton or Sheppard or Burish for Gardiner great... but I doubt it.

True, I can't see us offering what they want for Gardner but, we definitely have some third and fourth line centres you mention that would work in some package for Liles.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

So true but, they pretty much have no centres as most out injured, and for some time. Only 4th liners. They are more desperate for centres than D (they do have a couple good young D's in the minors in which it is seeming once they move a couple bodies, they will possibly be trying out and some in the media are talking about (eg. Brennan, whom is having an awesome season, and Holzer possibly).

There just isn't a deal for the Sharks unless like you said its McCarthy, Hamilton etc for Liles but even then..that contract is awful. I hope the Sharks stay away from the mess that is Toronto.

 

[19sharks19]

There just isn't a deal for the Sharks unless like you said its McCarthy, Hamilton etc for Liles but even then..that contract is awful. I hope the Sharks stay away from the mess that is Toronto.

True, it is a mess but, they do have some good pieces. Liles being one of them. I can only see 'any team', not just the Sharks, making a deal for Liles if the Leafs eat part of the contract. I think they are already aware of that as well.

 

[210]

The only plausible explanation is to save on cap dollars spent or open up a roster spot for someone.

Of those two only opening a roster spot is a possibility as SJ is using LTIR right now to be under the cap, meaning there's no cap savings to be had.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

True, it is a mess but, they do have some good pieces. Liles being one of them. I can only see 'any team', not just the Sharks, making a deal for Liles if the Leafs eat part of the contract. I think they are already aware of that as well.

All the pieces they have..they probably aren't getting rid of for peanuts and for good reason.

 

[hockeyball]

Of those two only opening a roster spot is a possibility as SJ is using LTIR right now to be under the cap, meaning there's no cap savings to be had.

Maybe just saving actual dollars though? Nieto's AHL salary being cheaper...

 

[210]

Maybe just saving actual dollars though? Nieto's AHL salary being cheaper...

SJ would save under $4k...if that makes a difference to them I would think that means trouble for the organization.

 

[hockeyball]

SJ would save under $4k...if that makes a difference to them I would think that means trouble for the organization.

Only other thing I can think is Burish, but that seems unlikely, and if he is ready to play they have are about to have a huge problem since Torres is a few away as well.

Sharks would be smart to trade a couple players now before they end up having to do so out of desperation. Kennedy would be my pick as Wingels has made him pretty expendable and I'd rather keep Wingels of the two. Sharks also have to move a defensemen if they plan to bring one in, ideally Stuart, but more likely Irwin or Demers. Havlat is another easy answer, but has little to no value.

I would love the Sharks to retain everyone, but it just isn't possible at this point. When healthy the Sharks just have way too many players and too much salary. They need some breathing room, and they have the luxury of quite a few waivable NHL capable players to call up (Nieto, Hamilton, Petrecki, Doherty, Acolotse, Tennyson).

Right now this is the healthy list of non-waivable Forwards (for various reasons), bolded are the guys I think the Sharks will see as exendable:

Thornton
Burns
Hertl (way too talented to waive)
Couture
Pavelski
Marleau
Wingels
Havlat
Torres
Kennedy
Sheppard
Desjardins
McCarthy
Brown
Burish

That is 15 essentially unwaivable forwards. The only guys who are 'bad enough' to actually possible clear or are so worthless the Sharks wouldn't care if they were claimed is McCarthy (and I bet he'd get claimed).

Now onto defense, where we know we actually need help you have:

Boyle
Irwin
Vlasic
Braun
Demers
Stuart
Hannan

None of them are going to be waived, and space would have to be made. Someone has to go. Irwin probably has very minimal value, Demers probably has less value than he is worth to the team. Stuart would be the best guy to move, but that might not be possible.

If I was the Sharks I would be trying to get rid of Kennedy, one of Burish/Brown, and Stuart in a deal to bring back a capable left side offensive d-man.

 

[210]

If I was the Sharks I would be trying to get rid of Kennedy, one of Burish/Brown, and Stuart in a deal to bring back a capable left side offensive d-man.

What team would trade away "a capable left side offensive d-man" for those players?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

DW won't trade a player he traded for and re-signed in Kennedy. I truly believe the Sharks will not be making any big deals.

 

[sr228]

What team would trade away "a capable left side offensive d-man" for those players?

None & Kennedy isn't going to be traded.

 

[hockeyball]

What team would trade away "a capable left side offensive d-man" for those players?

Well Kennedy is worth a 2nd, and a 2nd is pretty valuable. Irwin is tough to gauge, we are down on him, but it's hard to tell how other teams perceive him, especially if they are a team not in the running for a more marque player. Again we are down on Stuart, but he probably still holds quite a bit of respect around the league and some teams might be interested in him. I expect he's probably worth a 2nd as well. I would expect something like Kennedy, Stuart, and a 1st to return a pretty decent player to be honest.

 

[hockeyball]

DW won't trade a player he traded for and re-signed in Kennedy. I truly believe the Sharks will not be making any big deals.

No one is saying they need to make a big deal, I'm saying they have to move bodies. That's not debateable, Burish is going to be back well before the playoffs and Torres could probably play now if they'd let him. The Sharks have too many players and WAY too much salary. More than one player will need to be moved.

I agree on Kennedy for the most part, but someone with a decent salary has to go and I don't think it's going to be Havlat (especially now that he's playing better). The Sharks likely didn't predict Wingels play this season, or Hertl, or even Nieto's play. They are going to have a tough choice to make and I think moving Kennedy make a lot more sense than moving Wingels.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Well Kennedy is worth a 2nd, and a 2nd is pretty valuable. Irwin is tough to gauge, we are down on him, but it's hard to tell how other teams perceive him, especially if they are a team not in the running for a more marque player. Again we are down on Stuart, but he probably still holds quite a bit of respect around the league and some teams might be interested in him. I expect he's probably worth a 2nd as well. I would expect something like Kennedy, Stuart, and a 1st to return a pretty decent player to be honest.

Then who replaces Kennedy? John McCarthy and his 0 points on the season despite playing up and down the line up? Nieto still doesn't look very comfortable yet to me. He can skate but is still weak on the boards and in the corners. Kennedy isn't playing well right now but I expect him to rebound and he's proven to be a secondary offensive option in the past.

 

[WTFetus]

Then who replaces Kennedy? John McCarthy and his 0 points on the season despite playing up and down the line up? Nieto still doesn't look very comfortable yet to me. He can skate but is still weak on the boards and in the corners. Kennedy isn't playing well right now but I expect him to rebound and he's proven to be a secondary offensive option in the past.

I agree, and at worst, I think Kennedy would be very solid on the 4th line. Certainly would prefer him or Wingels there instead of Brown/McCarthy in the playoffs.
I also just don't see DW trading Stuart, unless LA or Anaheim wants him.

Sharks have cap problems, but I'm sure there's a way to do it without gutting the depth.

 

[hockeyball]

Then who replaces Kennedy? John McCarthy and his 0 points on the season despite playing up and down the line up?

We don't need anyone to replace Kennedy, it'd be Torres essentially

Hertl - Thornton - Burns
Marleau - Couture - Wingels
Torres - Pavelski - Havlat
Sheppard - Desjardins - Burish
Brown, McCarthy

Even without Kennedy we are still overflowing with forwards. Not counting Nieto and Hamilton.

Right now it looks like, fully healthy, the Sharks are at $66.05M. The cap is 64.3. That means they need to clear a mimimum of $1.75M and move at least one body to get under the 23 man limit. If they plan to ice Nieto they need to clear more space. Burish is the least expensive player that fits the bill, and even that leaves them with very little space to work with.

I absolutely 100% believe this defense is not going to win a cup. Stuart and Irwin are just too terrible for that to work. I think Wilson knows this is the best chance he is ever going to have at a cup and he's not going to risk going in with a shakey defense. He's going to try to shore it up.

Let me clarify what I am saying here more simply:

1) The Sharks HAVE to move someone, if they are going to stand pat then that person is Burish, that's all there is to it. Brown is cheaper, was acquired to replace him, and he provides the necessary space. That leaves them with ~$100,000 in cap space.

2) If you accept the premise that the Sharks need to improve their defensive group to have a chance at the cup, or you accept the premise that DW believes that, then the Sharks have to (at minimum) move two players. A forward (for cap space and a roster spot) and a defensemen (for a roster spot). There are a variety of ways to make that happen, but with this scenario you have two choices. Either you trade pieces with enough value to return the player you need, or you dump assets for futures/nothing and trade picks/prospects for the player you need. Either way, players are on the way out.