News Article: Unique Team Traits: The Kings

[Choralone]

Justin Bourne finally got to the Kings in his series of articles on "unique team traits" - which have been really interesting nuts-and-bolts analysis.

Unique Team Traits: The Kings provided each other with support while smashing into everyone else

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[ADifferentTim]

Thanks for this find and actually enjoyed this article.

 

[MynameisKing]

That is awesome. Spot on analysis.

 

[Trolfoli]

... Corsi... I just can't take this stuff seriously... When Williams is one of the dominate players in the league from a Corsi standpoint, but isn't even a first line winger on this team, something's wrong with the numbers ... go back and figure it out...

Like for instance... Williams's lack of creativity in the offensive zone forces his linemates to shoot more then trying to make a play. This increases the overall number of poor percentage shots.... That may be a good way of adjusting corsi by factoring in a teams shooting percentage... Weren't the Kings shooting around 3% for quite some time last year... Seems to me that number only corrected itself after a player like Gaborik was added along with Pearson and Toffoli... How are Gaborik's, Pearson, and Toffoli's Corsi?

Another question... are the Corsi stats only measuring an emergent property of the Kings style... or are they the reason the Kings are dominant... For me the Kings are dominate because of physicality and depth along with a defensive system and a top line that is a shutdown line. The Corsi is more a result of large numbers of shots from bad angles and the Kings defensive system... this leads to a player like Williams... a decent player, but no where near the top of the league... having one of the best Corsi's in the league...

Hey.. I guess I shouldn't be too hard on Corsi and analytics... after all the more other teams spend trying to chase numbers the longer the Kings will be able to keep others from catching on.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

First off, wasn't Williams a first line player for large stretches of the season last year? Secondly, Williams lacks creativity in the offensive zone? I'm not going to try and argue that Williams is at the top of the league in terms of offensive players but he is probably one of the Kings better players at maintaining possession and creating chances in the offensive zone. That is one of his strengths. He goes into the corners, gets pucks and makes plays.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

... Corsi... I just can't take this stuff seriously... When Williams is one of the dominate players in the league from a Corsi standpoint, but isn't even a first line winger on this team, something's wrong with the numbers ... go back and figure it out...

Like for instance... Williams's lack of creativity in the offensive zone forces his linemates to shoot more then trying to make a play. This increases the overall number of poor percentage shots.... That may be a good way of adjusting corsi by factoring in a teams shooting percentage... Weren't the Kings shooting around 3% for quite some time last year... Seems to me that number only corrected itself after a player like Gaborik was added along with Pearson and Toffoli... How are Gaborik's, Pearson, and Toffoli's Corsi?

Another question... are the Corsi stats only measuring an emergent property of the Kings style... or are they the reason the Kings are dominant... For me the Kings are dominate because of physicality and depth along with a defensive system and a top line that is a shutdown line. The Corsi is more a result of large numbers of shots from bad angles and the Kings defensive system... this leads to a player like Williams... a decent player, but no where near the top of the league... having one of the best Corsi's in the league...

Hey.. I guess I shouldn't be too hard on Corsi and analytics... after all the more other teams spend trying to chase numbers the longer the Kings will be able to keep others from catching on.

Your misunderstanding and misapplication of a stat doesn't make it bad...and your questioning Williams' puck possession and creativity is mindblowing to me. But the writer, being a former pro himself, probably has a pretty good eye for that sort of thing.

 

[scryan]

... Corsi... I just can't take this stuff seriously... When Williams is one of the dominate players in the league from a Corsi standpoint, but isn't even a first line winger on this team, something's wrong with the numbers ... go back and figure it out...

Trying to make the argument that corsi is flawed because it pointed at the conn smythe winner as one of the more important players in the league is just ridiculous.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

This article was not written by Adrian Dater. I read it anyway.

 

[Jason Lewis]

... Corsi... I just can't take this stuff seriously... When Williams is one of the dominate players in the league from a Corsi standpoint, but isn't even a first line winger on this team, something's wrong with the numbers ... go back and figure it out...

Like for instance... Williams's lack of creativity in the offensive zone forces his linemates to shoot more then trying to make a play. This increases the overall number of poor percentage shots.... That may be a good way of adjusting corsi by factoring in a teams shooting percentage... Weren't the Kings shooting around 3% for quite some time last year... Seems to me that number only corrected itself after a player like Gaborik was added along with Pearson and Toffoli... How are Gaborik's, Pearson, and Toffoli's Corsi?

Another question... are the Corsi stats only measuring an emergent property of the Kings style... or are they the reason the Kings are dominant... For me the Kings are dominate because of physicality and depth along with a defensive system and a top line that is a shutdown line. The Corsi is more a result of large numbers of shots from bad angles and the Kings defensive system... this leads to a player like Williams... a decent player, but no where near the top of the league... having one of the best Corsi's in the league...

Hey.. I guess I shouldn't be too hard on Corsi and analytics... after all the more other teams spend trying to chase numbers the longer the Kings will be able to keep others from catching on.

You are misunderstanding the role of advanced stats.

It is less about shots and more about possession and what you are doing with it. Shooting is just the tip of the iceberg. All of what you mentioned in terms of physicality, depth, and the two-way nature of almost the entire King lineup can be attributed to the central idea that if you have the puck more you score more and/or generate more chances most of the time. It isn't about bad angle shots from opposing teams. While the Kings defensive scheme is difficult for teams to deal with, the opposing team can't score if they don't have the puck. That is the essential underlying theme of corsi and fenwick. Team shooting percentage is an average that fluctuates to a mean. Poor shooting percentages do not remain constant forever, especially when you possess the puck as much as the Kings do. Ergo, even a team that seems to have a bad shooting percentage wins a championship. Those numbers eventually regress to the mean, and goals get scored. If you keep taking shots and keep possessing the puck you WILL eventually score no matter how bad your percentage is. The Kings do take a lot of poor shots, yes, but to take those shots they have to possess the puck much more than opposing teams. Hard for teams to score when they don't have the puck. Therein lies the utility of corsi. It essentially shows which team possesses the puck more and does the most with it.

Also, a player like Williams does not need to be a first line player to be effective with the minutes he is given. Williams having a high corsi simply means that when the Kings give him 16 minutes of ice time, he does a lot of good things with it along with his line. If they gave him more, say 20-22, he may falter. His position in the lineup is irrelevant to his corsi unless you want to start factoring in QoC (Quality of competition), wherein you open a whole other can of worms in regards to roster depth, matchups, zone starts, etc. etc. etc.

It can't be stressed enough, but all a high corsi means is how many chances the player is generating while on the ice versus how many they give up. If Williams is playing on the third line, and he is a +6 corsi on the night, that either means the line matched up against Williams isn't doing a good job containing him or limiting his possession, and/or the Kings line with Williams is just THAT good. Usually it's a mixture of both. This is why you are seeing organizations turn to stuff like this when making lineup moves. For lack of a better term, they can play a bit of "Moneyball" and really find out which players ARE the best 3rd liners, or the best 4th liners.

Up until the last few years with the introduction of these numbers there hasn't really been a reliable number that quantifies the quality of a player's minutes. +/- is extremely subjective. Corsi CAN BE subjective to a degree but it is 1000 times more accurate in its display of how a player is doing on any given night.

If Tyler Toffoli was a -10 corsi on the night, (Being that his line had maybe 3 shots while giving up 13) it's probably apparent that he didn't have a good night. However, he still may have been an even rating or even a +1 if his line scored.

 

[KingClipper]

... Corsi... I just can't take this stuff seriously... When Williams is one of the dominate players in the league from a Corsi standpoint, but isn't even a first line winger on this team, something's wrong with the numbers ... go back and figure it out...

Yeah, that Williams guy sure isn't important to our team or anything...

Should have kept Patrick O'Sullivan.