Player Discussion Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen (2017, 54th)

[Ralonzo]

It’s not like Woll or Oettinger have looked worlds better. All have had some fine saves and soft goals. There’s been games where a goalie has been hot in this particular tourney I.e. Durny vs USA. None of them are particularly dominating at this stage.

 

[toomuchsauce]

I watched him twice in this tournament so far, and both times, he looked bad. It's not *that* he's not making saves - it's *why* he's not making saves (poor defensive play by his teammates notwithstanding).

The technical problems with his game that jump off the screen to me are: 1) he drops his a$$ too low, which opens up his five hole, hampers his rebound control, and prevents him from moving laterally as effectively as he could. See, e.g., GWG last night against the USA. Dropped his butt, couldn't close his five hole. For a guy who is 6'6", he folds himself into a pretzel prior to the shot, and he can't "unfold" himself to make the save. Or, if he makes the save, his body is too tense to effectively control rebounds (when rebound control is possible - sometimes, it's not); 2) He's constantly flat footed and looks like he has no idea how to move with the play when a player is skating in on him with speed (notice this problem with Lehner, too); 3) his blocker-side elbow is literally a gaping hole. Every time he butterflies, he's trying to snap his elbow shut, which prevents him from using his blocker hand to actually make a save.

All of these things are fixable, but he needs a goalie coach at some point who sees these things and knows how to help him fix them. The kid looks kind of lost right now, and a coach who can help him understand what's going on, and what he needs to do to be successful *and be able to repeat the things that make him successful* is important in development right now as he moves up to higher levels of hockey.

Tangentially related to the above, I am skeptical when organizations say, "we'll develop him." Okay - so, how exactly are the Sabres going to develop this kid? Because if he doesn't get proper coaching to fix some or all of these things, he's not going to "develop" into a better goalie. So, I view this as kind of a test to see where the Sabres organization is with goalie "development."

 

[Der Jaeger]

I watched him twice in this tournament so far, and both times, he looked bad. It's not *that* he's not making saves - it's *why* he's not making saves (poor defensive play by his teammates notwithstanding).

The technical problems with his game that jump off the screen to me are: 1) he drops his a$$ too low, which opens up his five hole, hampers his rebound control, and prevents him from moving laterally as effectively as he could. See, e.g., GWG last night against the USA. Dropped his butt, couldn't close his five hole. For a guy who is 6'6", he folds himself into a pretzel prior to the shot, and he can't "unfold" himself to make the save. Or, if he makes the save, his body is too tense to effectively control rebounds (when rebound control is possible - sometimes, it's not); 2) He's constantly flat footed and looks like he has no idea how to move with the play when a player is skating in on him with speed (notice this problem with Lehner, too); 3) his blocker-side elbow is literally a gaping hole. Every time he butterflies, he's trying to snap his elbow shut, which prevents him from using his blocker hand to actually make a save.

All of these things are fixable, but he needs a goalie coach at some point who sees these things and knows how to help him fix them. The kid looks kind of lost right now, and a coach who can help him understand what's going on, and what he needs to do to be successful *and be able to repeat the things that make him successful* is important in development right now as he moves up to higher levels of hockey.

Tangentially related to the above, I am skeptical when organizations say, "we'll develop him." Okay - so, how exactly are the Sabres going to develop this kid? Because if he doesn't get proper coaching to fix some or all of these things, he's not going to "develop" into a better goalie. So, I view this as kind of a test to see where the Sabres organization is with goalie "development."

This is why I'm ok with an 18 year old goalie looking lost or a bit shaky at the WJC. Goalie coaches back home, then AHL coaches, have 4 years to work with UPL.

 

[ek93]

Get to see him tomorrow, which will be fun because the only other time I saw him live in this tournament he faced 7 shots. At least I know he can adequately handle dump ins.

No matter what happens, he's years away from being an NHL goalie. Nothing that happens in this tourney will really sway my opinion on him that much one way or another. Let some good coaches continue to work on him. Goalies (usually) take a while to marinate anyway. Just excited to watch him!

 

[markpenske]

I am kinda disappointed in what I've seen from him. He looks big and slow with poor movement.

 

[MackAttack26]

I still like the guy and think he has good potential, but he has been rather disappointing at the WJC.

Really wish we would have DiPietro instead but guess we won't be able to see if that's right or wrong for years.

Hopefully he can have a strong final few games and help Finland get a medal.

 

[Chainshot]

I still like the guy and think he has good potential, but he has been rather disappointing at the WJC.

Really wish we would have DiPietro instead but guess we won't be able to see if that's right or wrong for years.

Hopefully he can have a strong final few games and help Finland get a medal.

I think the Nats wish they had DiPietro too. Can't understand why they left him off the roster.

UPL has work to do. It'll be interesting to see him do it.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

He is so darn slow in like 75% of his movements. I hate big, slow goalies. Even Lehner seems like a massive improvement in terms of time to take action A and action B. And Lehner is not exactly quick. Its all good saying this kid has a lot of time to learn and improve but honestly Im struggling to see how it will happen based on what we have to work with right now. You cant be such a slow-mo goalie as NHL shots and dangles will leave you massively exposed. Not throwing in the towel on an 18 years old goalie but I have 0 expectations from him now and that may be for thr better. Similar to Johansson who if he ever turns out to be a solid NHLer will just be considered some bonus.

 

[Dirty Dog]

He is so darn slow in like 75% of his movements. I hate big, slow goalies. Even Lehner seems like a massive improvement in terms of time to take action A and action B. And Lehner is not exactly quick. Its all good saying this kid has a lot of time to learn and improve but honestly Im struggling to see how it will happen based on what we have to work with right now. You cant be such a slow-mo goalie as NHL shots and dangles will leave you massively exposed. Not throwing in the towel on an 18 years old goalie but I have 0 expectations from him now and that may be for thr better. Similar to Johansson who if he ever turns out to be a solid NHLer will just be considered some bonus.

Goalies are very difficult to project for people who do this for a living. With decades of experience. I only casually view these goalies and I am very aware of my lack of ability to project or scout them. It’s just too tough to do. Zero expectations is good to have for most goalie prospects though.

 

[toomuchsauce]

This is why I'm ok with an 18 year old goalie looking lost or a bit shaky at the WJC. Goalie coaches back home, then AHL coaches, have 4 years to work with UPL.

so much depends
upon

who those guys
are if

we want this kid
to be a

professional
goalie

 

[Sanf]

so much depends upon who those guys are if we want this kid to be a professional goalie

I agree with most of the points that you made. He is very raw at this point. Slightly worried that lot of the technical flaws has been is his set for years and haven´t seen improvment in some.

He came to HPK when he was 15 and I remember the Junior goalie coach saying that there wasn´t much of goalie coaching behind him before that. There are lot unpolished things in his tehnique still.

Now the current goalie coach in HPK had done fairly good job with young goalies. Emil Larmi (21) came with one year of secont tier experience and has became one of the stellar starting goalies in league. Very impressed about him. Antti Karjalainen (22) is the other goalie. I think he has been fairly good too. So I would believe that he is in good place for hid development.

Now Luukkonen is on loan at LeKi. Sort of "farm" team for 3 different league teams in area. They have made it work for years. It may sound bad but I think it´s good for his development. I believe Harri Kohvakka is their new goalie coach. Don´t know much about him.

 

[Chainshot]

Here's hoping he's getting that mentoring and coaching. He has a lot of raw tools, refining them will take time.

 

[LetsDoughBuffalo]

As others have stated - it's really tough to predict goalies.

I've never played the position and probably never will, so I think that makes it even more difficult and I probably don't really know what I'm talking about... but...

For the sake of conversation:

I didn't think UPL looked all that great at Dev Camp, and I definitely think he looked flawed in this tournament. As others have previously posted, he looked kind of slow and his holes/openings were gaping in that shootout.

With all that said, it sounds like he'll be back next year as the starter for Finland, and we'll see how he does as a 19 year old in this tournament. It's kind of nice to know that we'll have him to watch for again at the World J's!

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

As others have stated - it's really tough to predict goalies.

I've never played the position and probably never will, so I think that makes it even more difficult and I probably don't really know what I'm talking about... but...

For the sake of conversation:

I didn't think UPL looked all that great at Dev Camp, and I definitely think he looked flawed in this tournament. As others have previously posted, he looked kind of slow and his holes/openings were gaping in that shootout.

With all that said, it sounds like he'll be back next year as the starter for Finland, and we'll see how he does as a 19 year old in this tournament. It's kind of nice to know that we'll have him to watch for again at the World J's!

If he doesn't improve he may not be back. Someone else may pop up by then that is eligible to be the goalie. It's not like UPL did anything to cement his place for next year...

 

[Chainshot]

He'll certainly get an opportunity to develop his mental toughness since he's an easy target for why a heavily favored Finn squad failed. That doesn't lay this on his shoulders, as the Finns d-zone coverage was putrid, but there are enough Woll'sian "he should have had that" moments to make him the easiest target.

 

[Sanf]

If he doesn't improve he may not be back. Someone else may pop up by then that is eligible to be the goalie. It's not like UPL did anything to cement his place for next year...

We haven´t produced top end talent in recent years. I have trouble seeing challenger from the current group for Luukkonen. Conrad Mölder (actually Estonian) is sort of wild card. Did see him twice in puck rain last year and was impressed. He is playing in Kunlun juniors currentlly so he is out of my sight. Lehtinen has been quite stellar this year but don´t see him as talented. Daniel Lebedeff is another one out of my sight. Would say it will need mental slump from Luukkonen to lose his position next year.

He'll certainly get an opportunity to develop his mental toughness since he's an easy target for why a heavily favored Finn squad failed. That doesn't lay this on his shoulders, as the Finns d-zone coverage was putrid, but there are enough Woll'sian "he should have had that" moments to make him the easiest target.

I would say it´s quite good that he is currently playing at second tier. Out of public eye and coverage. Yeah lot of people seemed to have taken him as the scapegoat of this overall disapointment. Nevertheless good test for him.

And sorry I´m not Sabres fan or fan of any NHL team. Just a goalie enthusiast with spare time in hand.

 

[McPhatty00]

Considering how long it takes for goalies to acclimate to the NHL, this kid is so far off. The real question is what are the chances we may be able to use Ullmark? I just looked at his AHL stats and it looks like he's playing some solid hockey. Someone enlighten me. I Pennsylvania I can't get much AHL coverage.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

You mentioned Emil Larmi. Is there any discussion of him being either drafted or signed as a free agent? I believe he is still eligible for 2018. Has he been in any prospect camps to date?

I agree with most of the points that you made. He is very raw at this point. Slightly worried that lot of the technical flaws has been is his set for years and haven´t seen improvment in some.

He came to HPK when he was 15 and I remember the Junior goalie coach saying that there wasn´t much of goalie coaching behind him before that. There are lot unpolished things in his tehnique still.

Now the current goalie coach in HPK had done fairly good job with young goalies. Emil Larmi (21) came with one year of secont tier experience and has became one of the stellar starting goalies in league. Very impressed about him. Antti Karjalainen (22) is the other goalie. I think he has been fairly good too. So I would believe that he is in good place for hid development.

Now Luukkonen is on loan at LeKi. Sort of "farm" team for 3 different league teams in area. They have made it work for years. It may sound bad but I think it´s good for his development. I believe Harri Kohvakka is their new goalie coach. Don´t know much about him.

 

[Sanf]

You mentioned Emil Larmi. Is there any discussion of him being either drafted or signed as a free agent? I believe he is still eligible for 2018. Has he been in any prospect camps to date?

He hasn´t been in prospect camps (or I have totally missed it but I doubt that). Also I doubt that he is going to be drafted. Sigmed as free agent... long shot. I like him alot. His quite solid technically. But not really a standout.

Now that the olympics are only for "Euros" there is probably less interest towards WHC among "Euro" players. HPK isn´t going to playoffs this season. This means that Larmi has good chance for the first WHC camps. Might even get some games in NT. That would give him more exposure and help his chances.

Sorry for the OT.

 

[Hammer Slammer]

I'm watching HPK vs KooKoo and Luukkonen just took over in net for his first Liiga appearance I believe.

HPK went down 3-0 quickly at the start of the 2nd and he was put in. Made a couple saves already and looks fairly comfortable. I'm just sitting here really enjoying listening to the commentator say his full name over and over.

 

[Weltschmerz]

I'm watching HPK vs KooKoo and Luukkonen just took over in net for his first Liiga appearance I believe.

HPK went down 3-0 quickly at the start of the 2nd and he was put in. Made a couple saves already and looks fairly comfortable. I'm just sitting here really enjoying listening to the commentator say his full name over and over.

Nice AV

 

[Mitch nylander]

As a Sudbury Wolves season ticket holder. You guys got a gem. He's very big, he's extremely flexible, and makes terrific saves. Plays the puck extremely well as well..

 

[Gabrielor]

As a Sudbury Wolves season ticket holder. You guys got a gem. He's very big, he's extremely flexible, and makes terrific saves. Plays the puck extremely well as well..

Feel free to post anything you see over the course of the year

 

[OSA]

Only 2 games in but sometimes you can just tell when a goalie has a gift for the position. A lot of Sudbury fans who have been around a long time are saying that he’s the best goaltender they’ve ever seen in Sudbury. That list includes Mike Smith and Andrew Raycroft.

 

[ZZamboni]

Keep posting updates. A poster or two here are rather pessimistic about him. The rest of us are happy he’s our prospect.