Post-Game Talk: Ugly Win

[Minus Mitch]

Randy Carlyles teams got outplayed and badly outshot yet won. This thing will come crashing down yet. Funny Babcock says he's playing Marleau at center because of lack of depth and people think Bozaks leaving.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Randy Carlyles teams got outplayed and badly outshot yet won. This thing will come crashing down yet. Funny Babcock says he's playing Marleau at center because of lack of depth and people think Bozaks leaving.

No it won’t. The underlying numbers are a lot better. Good teams win games they shouldn’t.

 

[Havoc]

on a side note, Teuvo Teravainen is finally having a breakout season like everyone thought he eventually would. This is why in today's NHL, you need to be extremely conservative and smart with your cap space - and not blow it on UFAs, pending UFAs, or any asset that is guaranteed to decline over the duration of a player's contract. This is why guys like JVR - as well as he has been playing lately - should not be re-signed. Not even at any weird hometown discount AAV $5M X 7-8 year deal, even if the cap increases by $10 million next season. Keep the cap flexibility, so you don't want to throw away homegrown assets like Teravainen for a 2nd or 3rd round pick because you can't afford to re-sign him. Imagine the same with the Leafs - if Johnsson or Kapanen become legitimate Top 6 forwards and are due for a contract renewal, but you have to trade them for a 2nd round pick because you have a 30 year old Top 6 winger on the books for the next 6 seasons...just my two cents

Teuvo was always a top prospect. We have no forward prospect that would have been regarded as highly as Teuvo. You don't give up a JVR unless you have a prospect you can bank on. Leafs don't have any forward prospects that they can say with high confidence will replicate any stage of JVR's best seasons. Kapanen has not shown at all he's in the same tier as Teuvo as a prospect.

Take away JVR and this team is no longer a top 3 team in the conference. Can't believe the hate for this guy (Not you, just in general). He plays a simple game where he conserves energy and then uses his skill to put up points that can be replicated well until he's 35


If JVR can't be exchanged for quality assets that are actual needs (D) he is getting re-signed. Management doesn't have this same hatred for JVR like this board does. Thank god.

 

[bobermay]

Its nice to be on the beneficiary side of the reffing for a change... that last PP where Marleau scored was a gift!

 

[DarkKnight]

Games like this are good, if for no other reason than we can't fool ourselves into thinking our D doesn't need an upgrade. Freddie should get a Purple Heart, not a star.

 

[Ciao]

I'm no highly paid expert, but it looks to me like all their problems start with not being able to clear the D zone efficiently. Some of the plays they make leave me shaking my head, they seem to be overthinking things, I don't know what's up.

They look like theyre doing too much thinking and not enough playing to me too. That comes from overcoaching. Babcock needs an easier way to get through to them because whatever is happening now isnt working.

This team is better than that.

 

[Ciao]

I didn't think it ugly at all. It was sorta "Todd Gill" exciting or "Jake Gardiner" exciting. Early in those two player careers, when they had the puck, there was equal chance that any of 11 players on the ice, would have control of the puck next.

Unbelievable tonight how poor the Leafs were in their own zone. Just couldn't clear the puck out of own zone. Play like that you lose 9 outta 10.

That last part was pretty ugly. Unable to clear the zone is hard to watch.

 

[ToneDog]

No it won’t. The underlying numbers are a lot better. Good teams win games they shouldn’t.

I thought the same thing but even with Andy playing a great game, they would have lost if Canes started Darling.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Teuvo was always a top prospect. We have no forward prospect that would have been regarded as highly as Teuvo. You don't give up a JVR unless you have a prospect you can bank on. Leafs don't have any forward prospects that they can say with high confidence will replicate any stage of JVR's best seasons. Kapanen has not shown at all he's in the same tier as Teuvo as a prospect.

Take away JVR and this team is no longer a top 3 team in the conference. Can't believe the hate for this guy (Not you, just in general). He plays a simple game where he conserves energy and then uses his skill to put up points that can be replicated well until he's 35


If JVR can't be exchanged for quality assets that are actual needs (D) he is getting re-signed. Management doesn't have this same hatred for JVR like this board does. Thank god.

Agree with Teravainen being a top prospect that the Leafs currently don't have; but I also think the depth of wingers that the Leafs have who could be come solid NHL contributors is definitely a surplus (Kapanen, Johnsson, Leivo for this season; Timashov, Bracco, Korshkov, Grundstrom in future seasons), which makes retaining JVR non-obligatory.

I agree that if you take JVR away from this team, the Leafs are not a Top 3 team. He's a quality player and one that would return a lot, which will help the sustainable competitiveness of this team long-term. If he re-signs for 7 years X $5.5-6M AAV, he becomes less valuable to the team. The net value of that entire contract probably becomes zero, which is bearable - it's years 4-7 where he can become a serious negative and immovable asset. With the glut of young players due for a substantial raise (and a surplus of players who could replace him for significantly), I simply would not invest in re-signing him. That doesn't mean that his loss won't be felt, but I'd rather not have JVR going forward than losing someone due to unaffordability like Connor Brown in 2020-2021 - someone who plays a responsible 2-way game, is 5 years younger, a perennial 25-30 goal scoring threat, and will likely command equal or less AAV than a 31 year old JVR.

Tough decisions will have to be made within this organization to remain competitive for seasons to come - I would rather they be made both now and in staggered fashion (i.e. trading or not re-signing JVR) than to have to address 5 or 6 of them concurrently in 2020 with little cap maneuverability.

 

[leafsfan1234]

The team seems to try much harder when Matthews isn't in the lineup.. It's like a few of the vets think they have a free pass when he's there to carry us.

 

[DarkKnight]

I know we should fire the coach and trade everybody, because tied for second in the conference is simply inexcusable.

 

[ToneDog]

It's weird being tied for third in the league, and be completely dissatisfied and even worried about where this team is at right now.

You gotta be concerned about their inability to get the puck out of their zone (both the dmen and forwards). Had they played a good team (say STL or TB) they would have been taken to the woodshed and fans would be calling for heads to roll.

I get that not all games are Piccasos but they were using crayons last night.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I've never seen so many posts about how the sky is falling, after wins and being top 3 or 5 in the league.

Everyone's way too smart to just enjoy success eh?

Maybe everyone's so jaded that they forgot how.

 

[DarkKnight]

I've never seen so many posts about how the sky is falling, after wins and being top 3 or 5 in the league.

Everyone's way too smart to just enjoy success eh?

It was the same thing during the Quinn era.

 

[ToneDog]

I know we should fire the coach and trade everybody, because tied for second in the conference is simply inexcusable.

Let's not go to extremes but I am sure Babs was not happy about last night's performance.

 

[DarkKnight]

Let's not go to extremes but I am sure Babs was not happy about last night's performance.

No, we stunk, our goalie won us the game. This is not unique to the Leafs, nor successful teams. We need an upgrade on D, that is the objective fact for this team IMHO.

 

[DarkKnight]

Andersen still at .918.

 

[ToneDog]

No, we stunk, our goalie won us the game. This is not unique to the Leafs, nor successful teams. We need an upgrade on D, that is the objective fact for this team IMHO.

Agreed, upgrade on D and upgrade on #42. We could use some sandpaper up front as well.

It would also help if Willie and Mitch had more than a goal combined than Hyman.

 

[MJ65]

Game in six minutes - Courtesy Leafs TV

 

[DarkKnight]

Agreed, upgrade on D and upgrade on #42. We could use some sandpaper up front as well.

It would also help if Willie and Mitch had more than a goal combined than Hyman.

Well, that's the thing, does anyone really believe we are seeing the average production out of all our players? Nylander is a 15 goal guy, lol.

 

[MJ65]

Mike Babcock - Courtesy Leafs TV

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I've never seen so many posts about how the sky is falling, after wins and being top 3 or 5 in the league.

Everyone's way too smart to just enjoy success eh?

Maybe everyone's so jaded that they forgot how.

I mean I am not one to usually complain after a win but last night was different. We got thoroughly out played and out worked in that game. It's not about "the sky is falling" it's that I have been noticing a concerning trend where we are just consistently getting out worked and counting on Andersen to bail us out of it so far in the last month. Like that is objectively what has been happening. Things obviously could be worse....we could be Edmonton right now working through our problems out of the playoffs but fortunately for us we get to work through our problems in a comfortable playoff position.....but if anybody actually thinks we have been playing good hockey the last month I am not really sure what to tell you.

 

[Warden of the North]

Some of you need to relax a little bit.

No team plays perfectly every game all game. Were not yet 30% of the way through the season, we have plenty of time to figure it out.

 

[Liferleafer]

No, we stunk, our goalie won us the game. This is not unique to the Leafs, nor successful teams. We need an upgrade on D, that is the objective fact for this team IMHO.

Don't talk about needing a D fix on the trade board, guys from this board will tell you how under rated and elite our D is...

 

[Marshy]

We need a good game where everyone buys in for 60 minutes.

Maybe having McBackup in tonight will force them to play a responsible team game. Or maybe a dose of reality will come in the form of a 6-1 pasting.

I think though that if they have a similar first period to last night it's because they're not capable of executing a game plan.