GDT: UFC on ESPN: Cannonier vs. Gastelum

[dss97]

Probably 3-1 Cannonier

 

[darko]

for?

Cannonier

2 each now IMO

 

[Taytro]

Both corners said their fighters are up 3-1... I dont see 3 rounds for Kelvin.

 

[I am not exposed]

Cannonier is probably up 3-1 but this is risky

 

[CDJ]

The range is 49-46 Cannonier to 48-47 Gastelum

I have 48-47 Cannonier

 

[darko]

48-47 Gastelum IMO

 

[Taytro]

I honestly think it could be 48-47 for either guy. But I think that the judges will see that shoulder knockdown in the 4th as a real knockdown and give it to Cannonier.

 

[I am not exposed]

The range is 49-46 Cannonier to 48-47 Gastelum

I have 48-47 Cannonier

Yep. I'm good with that.

 

[Taytro]

Tough for Kelvin when your corner tells you you're up 3-1 and then dominate the 4th round. You see him shake his head, he probably thinks he won 4-1.

 

[I am not exposed]

Cannonier broke. Man, that sucks. Although I hope this doesn't go into a pay discussion like the last fight card!!!

 

[Taytro]

Cannonier broke. Man, that sucks. Although I hope this doesn't go into a pay discussion like the last fight card!!!

Hes only really gotten one payday in the last 2 years before this fight when he was getting 2or3 per year before. I'd be broke too.

 

[CDJ]

POTN

Bahamondes
Knight
Nunes
Pantoja

 

[m9]

Hes only really gotten one payday in the last 2 years before this fight when he was getting 2or3 per year before. I'd be broke too.

Not turning this into a fighter pay thing - obviously he should be making more - but Cannonier's made at least like a million bucks in the last 5 years. If he's broke from that then that's kind of on him too

 

[m9]

Thought the judges got that main event right - I had it scored exactly the same way.

Ended up being a bit of a slow card after an awesome start. The HW fight and Guida/Madsen kind of sucked the air out, for me at least.

 

[Taytro]

Not turning this into a fighter pay thing - obviously he should be making more - but Cannonier's made at least like a million bucks in the last 5 years. If he's broke from that then that's kind of on him too

If he makes a million, he doesn't pocket a million. Tax, a % to your manager, your camps, transpo for coaches/teammates, moving from Alaska to Arizona, etc. Look at Misha Tates recent breakdown of expenses for her last fight. It's a lot less profitable than you think, especially when all their costs are out of pocket.

 

[Taytro]

Thought the judges got that main event right - I had it scored exactly the same way.

Ended up being a bit of a slow card after an awesome start. The HW fight and Guida/Madsen kind of sucked the air out, for me at least.

You and I usually agree on a lot of stuff, but this isn't it. The HW fight was good but slowed in the last 2m of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Still a decent fight, shouldn't have been that high kn the card. Guida and Madsen was fun watching Guida is always fun. I'm happy I didn't see as much wrestling as I expected.

The Trevin Jones fight is the one that took some air out for me. Probably 7 or 8 minutes of clinching with no intentions of improving position or doing damage in that fight. Good ending, garbo fight. Jones won't make it that high on a card again with that fighting style.

 

[CDJ]

Probably donated 5-6 figures to a Q-related cause or bought a whole bunch of crystals. Cannonier is a very strange guy, he pivots from online alt right troll to strange astrology/crystal lady you see on tinder every other swipe to black Israelite with a Jewish prayer shawl at the changing of a breeze

he’s very versatile. Seems like a genuinely nice guy though. Very good fighter

I think it’s kind hilarious when he talks about crystals. I’m not even knocking it or whatever science or belief is behind it- but it’s usually some artsy 5’4 alternative girl who loves talking about them and not a jacked up guy who goes by “Killa Gorilla” who also has the most mild, friendly speaking voice ever. Funny contrast.

 

[m9]

If he makes a million, he doesn't pocket a million. Tax, a % to your manager, your camps, transpo for coaches/teammates, moving from Alaska to Arizona, etc. Look at Misha Tates recent breakdown of expenses for her last fight. It's a lot less profitable than you think, especially when all their costs are out of pocket.

Everyone pays taxes. I get he'll have other expenses, but if you're grossing 200k a year for half a decade and still broke then that's kind of on you.

 

[16Skippy]

Cannonier probably doesn't want to wait for Till-Brunson to play out before booking another fight if he really is broke. But I want to see Cannonier vs Till at some point for some gorilla vs gorilla action.

I'm not sure what to make of Gatsalum at this point. He's on a rough stretch but most of those losses were close from what I remember and he is still young. On the other hand, dude is like 5'9 and has trouble making 185.

 

[m9]

Cannonier probably doesn't want to wait for Till-Brunson to play out before booking another fight if he really is broke. But I want to see Cannonier vs Till at some point for some gorilla vs gorilla action.

I'm not sure what to make of Gatsalum at this point. He's on a rough stretch but most of those losses were close from what I remember and he is still young. On the other hand, dude is like 5'9 and has trouble making 185.

Tough to find a fight for Cannonier quickly unless he just wants to stay busy and fight a Brad Tavares or someone like that.

Wouldn't mind the Uriah Hall rematch for Gastelum.

 

[Avs_19]

The prelims were better than the main card.

A couple of those rounds were tough to score but I think 49-46 or 48-47 for Cannonier sounds about right. He landed the much more impactful shots even in the rounds that were close to even in output.

As far as the pay discussion goes, I think everyone would agree the fighters deserve a lot more and most of them get screwed. This discussion has been happening for years and probably won't stop anytime soon. I don't know if it's fair to put Miesha in that group though. I listened to a snippet of her interview where she was talking about flying to 3-4 different camps to train so what was she expecting? I think she's based in Vegas and pays for that camp, then she said she brings in a different coach to Vegas and pays him, and then she goes to a couple of other camps and has to pay for those travel expenses and for the training/coaches. No one does that.

 

[Taytro]

Everyone pays taxes. I get he'll have other expenses, but if you're grossing 200k a year for half a decade and still broke then that's kind of on you.

You're right (but vastly different amounts depending on where you live and work), if he's earning 200k, gets taxed 35% (Alaska), takes home 130k. Miles Jury said the industry standard for a manager is 20% of gross, well say 15% for Jared. There's another 30k. So he's left with 100k to pay private insurance, private paramed/medical services, living expenses to raise a child, and moving expenses. Then he would only earn 33% of that income for 2 years since he fought 1/3rd as frequently (well call it 40k for the last 2 years to be generous). Pretty easy to see how he could be broke. His standard of living is at a certain point that his income doesn't match all of a sudden.

Read the comments from Tate. Shr indicated that she grossed 200k for her last fight and said since she wanted thr best of the best, she pretty much invested the whole purse on her camp.

Hell, I have no family, no expenses, no manager, etc. And I still feel broke at 60k/year AND I got to work during the pandemic. Idk man, fighters aren't as glamorous and well off as we think.

 

[m9]

You're right (but vastly different amounts depending on where you live and work), if he's earning 200k, gets taxed 35% (Alaska), takes home 130k. Miles Jury said the industry standard for a manager is 20% of gross, well say 15% for Jared. There's another 30k. So he's left with 100k to pay private insurance, private paramed/medical services, living expenses to raise a child, and moving expenses. Then he would only earn 33% of that income for 2 years since he fought 1/3rd as frequently (well call it 40k for the last 2 years to be generous). Pretty easy to see how he could be broke. His standard of living is at a certain point that his income doesn't match all of a sudden.

Read the comments from Tate. Shr indicated that she grossed 200k for her last fight and said since she wanted thr best of the best, she pretty much invested the whole purse on her camp.

Hell, I have no family, no expenses, no manager, etc. And I still feel broke at 60k/year AND I got to work during the pandemic. Idk man, fighters aren't as glamorous and well off as we think.

You are taking extreme examples of things and pushing them like they're common. Myles Jury said his first manager took 20%.. but that 5%-10% is standard.

As was mentioned above, Tate said she didn't care about money for this camp and spent a ton to fly guys back and forth for whatever she needed. That's not what most fighters do, nor should do.

There's a difference between living a glamourous life and being broke. If you are averaging 200k a year over 5 years that's a ton more than an average income. Maybe his wife has a job too, no idea.

Fighters have some additional costs vs other people but things like taxes, moving and raising kids are the same expenses everyone else has. Hate to say it, but lots of fighters are just really dumb with money so they put themselves in bad financial positions.

Should add - he hasn't fought much recently but he got at least 161k last night so that's not really how most define "broke".. even accounting for taxes & everything.

And yes all that being said.. if course he should have been making more money. He might still be just as broke, though.

 

[Taytro]

You are taking extreme examples of things and pushing them like they're common. Myles Jury said his first manager took 20%.. but that 5%-10% is standard.

As was mentioned above, Tate said she didn't care about money for this camp and spent a ton to fly guys back and forth for whatever she needed. That's not what most fighters do, nor should do.

There's a difference between living a glamourous life and being broke. If you are averaging 200k a year over 5 years that's a ton more than an average income. Maybe his wife has a job too, no idea.

Fighters have some additional costs vs other people but things like taxes, moving and raising kids are the same expenses everyone else has. Hate to say it, but lots of fighters are just really dumb with money so they put themselves in bad financial positions.

Should add - he hasn't fought much recently but he got at least 161k last night so that's not really how most define "broke".. even accounting for taxes & everything.

And yes all that being said.. if course he should have been making more money. He might still be just as broke, though.

Article I read said 5-10% cut for the gym, 20% for management, that's what Jury said was standard. But regardless, they have more costs than a standard person who makes 200k gross was the point.

And completely disagree with you saying fighters shouldn't invest in being their best selves. Lots of fighters take financial risks to improve.

The fact of the matter is, if a fighter is living a standard of life based on the pay of fighting 3 times a year, and transitions to fighting 1 time in 2 years, they will inevitably be behind financially from where they expect to be. End of story, that's what I feel Cannonier was conveying. Not that he's 100k in debt and about to lose his house, not that he gets paid too little by the UFC. Just that he hasn't earned any money lately and he wants the opportunity to earn sooner rather than later instead of waiting around for the potential of a title fight.

 

[m9]

Article I read said 5-10% cut for the gym, 20% for management, that's what Jury said was standard. But regardless, they have more costs than a standard person who makes 200k gross was the point.

And completely disagree with you saying fighters shouldn't invest in being their best selves. Lots of fighters take financial risks to improve.

The fact of the matter is, if a fighter is living a standard of life based on the pay of fighting 3 times a year, and transitions to fighting 1 time in 2 years, they will inevitably be behind financially from where they expect to be. End of story, that's what I feel Cannonier was conveying. Not that he's 100k in debt and about to lose his house, not that he gets paid too little by the UFC. Just that he hasn't earned any money lately and he wants the opportunity to earn sooner rather than later instead of waiting around for the potential of a title fight.

If he's just saying he hasn't been making enough money and needs more, then I'm cool with that. Hopefully he was healthy coming out of this and gets back in there soon.