Proposal: UFA or Trade for D-man

[scarbrow21]

Because of the expansion draft, there are D that are either available before hand from their teams, or likely afterwards from Vegas as trade bait. I'm wondering what the consensus ideals would be, cost to acquire, and affect on expansion (if trade is made prior to expansion) that people are mulling over? The teams who can't really trade or buy out there way from losing a solid player in expansion (IMO) are MIN, NYI, LAK, CBJ, and FLA.

My ideals:

1) Brayden McNabb/Alec Martinez- Cost would be a pick/exempt prospect as LAK with either have Martinez and McNabb exposed or McNabb and Forbort in order to protect some forwards. This deal is either made w/LAK prior to, and we assume the expansion issue, or with Vegas after. Either way if it's McNabb the cost would likely be prospect + higher pick

2) Calvin De Haan- Most likely being traded before expansion so would have to be assumed into our expansion plan but likely best available D there is. Cost would also be high though. Our first #13OA+prospect+? and we'd assume the expansion issue. Also probably highly coveted by other teams

3) Jason Demers- Perrault + might be the casualty here as they'd want an analytics based trade. Maybe Perrault and Dano. Again we'd have to assume the expansion issue but Demers would be another ideal target.

4) Chris Tanev- Has a NMC but would probably waive to come here and play with his brother plus he's the one who convinced Brendan to sign here, and VAN doesn't need to move him but they're in rebuild mode and could value the picks. Could be done AFTER expansion which would help WPG greatly as well. This one's tricky. DAL could give the 3rd OA straight up which we couldn't compete with, unless #13 OA + prospect+ another pick? could offer the same value. If he could play the left side with Buff that'd be ideal but if not, him on a pure shutdown line would make our third pairing excellent and actually usable!


Who are your ideals? Brendan Smith in UFA is the easy answer but I think he'll re-sign in NYR at "fair market value"

Click to read more...

 

[DRW204]

i like the idea of CDH or Forbort (LAK)

I think MIN might have to leave a good Dman exposed as well? However I doubt there will be an interdivision trade

 

[scarbrow21]

i like the idea of CDH or Forbort (LAK)

I think MIN might have to leave a good Dman exposed as well? However I doubt there will be an interdivision trade

Pretty much why I ignored any situation with them. I'd love Brodin or Scandella but those inter-divisional trades especially ones involving talent and not prospects rarely happen especially when there's many suitors.

Forbort with doubtfully be available but Martinez or McNabb could very well be

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Zero chance Martinez is available from LA. He is quite clearly their #3 defenseman, no chance he is gone.

Forbort will be on the bubble there. It's likely they protect 4+4 though meaning he gets protected though, as Nic Dowd isn't to big a loss there (Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson are the clear protections).

McNabb would certainly be available, but he is not very good. I mean better than Chiarot obviously, but not a top 4 guy at all. So I don't know there should be that much interest.

 

[DRW204]

Pretty much why I ignored any situation with them. I'd love Brodin or Scandella but those inter-divisional trades especially ones involving talent and not prospects rarely happen especially when there's many suitors.

Forbort with doubtfully be available but Martinez or McNabb could very well be

Wasnt really impressed with Mcnabb. Martinez is a LHS that plays RD that i think LAK will protect or ask for a big(ger) return compared to Forbort.

 

[Whileee]

Don't really see the Jets trading for a D prior to the expansion draft. I think it's much more likely that they try to swing a deal with Vegas or another team after the XD, or look for a D through free agency.

 

[lanky]

CDH would be awesome but no way would I give up 13 OA.

How about the old man Brian Campbell? He's still performing well and he costs us no assets.

 

[DashingDane]

Watch a lot of Kings games down here and don't really like McNabb. Martinez I would love to get but can't see him leaving LA.

 

[10Ducky10]

CDH would be awesome but no way would I give up 13 OA.

How about the old man Brian Campbell? He's still performing well and he costs us no assets.

He is easily worth the 13th...who do you expect to draft that is better and when will they make the team?

 

[scarbrow21]

CDH would be awesome but no way would I give up 13 OA.

How about the old man Brian Campbell? He's still performing well and he costs us no assets.

Brian Campbell took a HUGE pay cut to play in CHI for 2 reasons. 1) They had a legitimate chance to compete for another cup as he's aging and doesn't have much time left. 2) I believe he lives in CHI...someone correct me if I'm wrong.

He is easily worth the 13th...who do you expect to draft that is better and when will they make the team?

everyone gets so hung up on draft picks that they fail to realize that no matter good the prospect is, they rarely make the jump in the first year unless they're exceptional (Laine, Matthews, McDavid). There's a 75% chance they spend at LEAST 2 years in the AHL or back to Junior. On top of that, it's almost a 50/50 shot they don't make the NHL at all as a 1st round pick. Odds drop even lower for later round picks.

So with all that said, you ABSOLUTELY SHOULD try and parlay any first round pick for a NHL proven player. Though it usually takes the pick + to get those deals done depending on the caliber of NHL player. Hell Ladd as a rental got Dano +1st

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Don't really see the Jets trading for a D prior to the expansion draft. I think it's much more likely that they try to swing a deal with Vegas or another team after the XD, or look for a D through free agency.

I agree with Whileee & don't see a trade for a D happening prior to expansion as it's another body to either expose or protect. I'd assume we'd be protecting this new acquisition & not giving him away for free after trading for him.

Picking up a D prior to expansion causes our 8 skaters plan to become 3-5-1 situation forcing another forward to be exposed, undoubtably Perrault.

Thanks but no thanks. We can arrange a hell of a deal with Vegas during/after the draft. Vegas will have an excess of players at this point many of which will have been selected for no reason other than to be traded.

I can see either a goalie/LD coming here for any number of our forward prospects, or perhaps & major trade for one of our premium assets in return for several of these players.

Manson, Van Reimsdyk, De Haan, Ouellet, Rheinhart could all on the Vegas roster & there for the taking to the highest bidder.

 

[scarbrow21]

I agree with Whileee & don't see a trade for a D happening prior to expansion as it's another body to either expose or protect. I'd assume we'd be protecting this new acquisition & not giving him away for free after trading for him.

Picking up a D prior to expansion causes our 8 skaters plan to become 3-5-1 situation forcing another forward to be exposed, undoubtably Perrault.

Thanks but no thanks. We can arrange a hell of a deal with Vegas during/after the draft. Vegas will have an excess of players at this point many of which will have been selected for no reason other than to be traded.

I can see either a goalie/LD coming here for any number of our forward prospects, or perhaps & major trade for one of our premium assets in return for several of these players.

Manson, Van Reimsdyk, De Haan, Ouellet, Rheinhart could all on the Vegas roster & there for the taking to the highest bidder.

Manson- Will not be available to vegas. They will have Bieksa waive NMC or be bought out, then trade one of Fowler or Vatanen there by being able to protect Manson AND Rakell and Silfverberg

Van Reimsdyk- I'm assuming that's Trevor from CHI as we're talking D. He'd potentially be available to Vegas sure. IMO not much improvement though over Enstrom

De Haan- NYI face some serious decisions...If De Haan makes it to Vegas, they're not trading him on the cheap.

Ouellet- I can't see DET who's in rebuild mode protecting a 36 year old Kronwall over him.

Reinhart- Again making an assumption this is Griffin because we're talking D men but he's so far leaning towards a bust and doesn't even compare to the other guys listed. I'd rather give Niku a go then Reinhart.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Manson- Will not be available to vegas. They will have Bieksa waive NMC or be bought out, then trade one of Fowler or Vatanen there by being able to protect Manson AND Rakell and Silfverberg

Van Reimsdyk- I'm assuming that's Trevor from CHI as we're talking D. He'd potentially be available to Vegas sure. IMO not much improvement though over Enstrom

De Haan- NYI face some serious decisions...If De Haan makes it to Vegas, they're not trading him on the cheap.

Ouellet- I can't see DET who's in rebuild mode protecting a 36 year old Kronwall over him.

Reinhart- Again making an assumption this is Griffin because we're talking D men but he's so far leaning towards a bust and doesn't even compare to the other guys listed. I'd rather give Niku a go then Reinhart.

Vegas will be drafting 9-13 2nd pairing defensemen.

You're points are all valid, but if those players aren't available, comparables will be.

 

[scarbrow21]

Vegas will be drafting 9-13 2nd pairing defensemen.

You're points are all valid, but if those players aren't available, comparables will be.

Only because I went through this with someone already rather in depth, comparable players will not be available! If there are, name them and I'll debunk it for you!

I expect that after the dust settles before the expansion draft, McPhee will have a team of misfits much like every other expansion franchise ever. The only thing the so called "New rules to provide a better initial roster" for the expansion team did, was make teams trade away anyone worth while at potentially (won't know till the first real deals happen) less than normal market value.

 

[scarbrow21]

Side note to my previous post because I do think LV DOES have a leg up on previous expansion teams (except FLA and TB) because (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Las Vegas has one of the lowest state taxes in the USA.

Vegas also is a major attraction on it's own, so there's that as well but to think the roster gained by expansion draft is going to contain 10+2nd line players, and 9-13 2nd pairing d-men to me is laughable. No team will let that go for free. I'd rather trade that player to a team wasting expansion slots or in rebuilds for picks or exempt players.

 

[lomiller1]

I just do not get this meme that we need a LHD this summer. There will not be a UFA D-man better than Enstrom and the price to acquire a D-man better that Enstrom would be too high.

What we need is a succession plan for Enstrom, Buff, Myers and maybe Trouba and that means getting some good prospects in the pipeline, not giving away assets for small gains.

 

[Huffer]

Side note to my previous post because I do think LV DOES have a leg up on previous expansion teams (except FLA and TB) because (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Las Vegas has one of the lowest state taxes in the USA.

Vegas also is a major attraction on it's own, so there's that as well but to think the roster gained by expansion draft is going to contain 10+2nd line players, and 9-13 2nd pairing d-men to me is laughable. No team will let that go for free. I'd rather trade that player to a team wasting expansion slots or in rebuilds for picks or exempt players.

The thing is though that there really are not a lot of teams that have wasted expansion slots to trade TO if you are a team that has a good player you might lose. Only 1 or 2 teams likely have an available spot IMO.

Also, it's not that Vegas is going to have 9-13 2nd pairing D men on their roster. It's that on day 1 when the protected lists come out, 30 GM's are going to see what players are available. Then the auction begins. There should very well be some very usable players available that could be very good additions to the Jets. Problem is we'll have to outbid the other teams, AND make it worth more to Vegas than just keeping the player.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Side note to my previous post because I do think LV DOES have a leg up on previous expansion teams (except FLA and TB) because (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Las Vegas has one of the lowest state taxes in the USA.

Vegas also is a major attraction on it's own, so there's that as well but to think the roster gained by expansion draft is going to contain 10+2nd line players, and 9-13 2nd pairing d-men to me is laughable. No team will let that go for free. I'd rather trade that player to a team wasting expansion slots or in rebuilds for picks or exempt players.

Teams have known the rules of the expansion draft since June of 2016. They've had a year to get their ducks in a row.

We're down to 23 days before protected lists have to be handed in with nary a sign or even the usual talk from reputable sources that deals are coming, let alone the significant amount of deals you are suggesting that need to be made.

As of right now the players being made available will surely allow Vegas to be very competitive. Factor in whatever excess they draft will need to be virtually immediately be dealt, & further pieces of their already decent team will be added.

Rather than "list off" my ideas to debunk, when you've already engaged someone "in depth" on this very matter, why not provide links to this conversation?

Would save both of us a lot of time.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

The thing is though that there really are not a lot of teams that have wasted expansion slots to trade TO if you are a team that has a good player you might lose. Only 1 or 2 teams likely have an available spot IMO.

Also, it's not that Vegas is going to have 9-13 2nd pairing D men on their roster. It's that on day 1 when the protected lists come out, 30 GM's are going to see what players are available. Then the auction begins. There should very well be some very usable players available that could be very good additions to the Jets. Problem is we'll have to outbid the other teams, AND make it worth more to Vegas than just keeping the player.

23 days to the auction, yet very few are yet using this term. The truth is the expansion draft will be "an auction" of historic proportions & I'm sure "when the dust settles" that term will apply to the trades that occur that weekend.

The Jets are very fortunate to have collected such an arsenal of young talent. There will quite likely be a total of ten 2017RFA's selected by Vegas, nearly all former 1st & 2nd round picks that are of an age making them perfect additions to the Jets young roster.

Either:

1) multiple high pedigree waiver free prospects will be moved to acquire these players

or an ever bolder move with:

2) an established veteran or ultra high ceiling young veteran moved in exchange for multiple Vegas selections.

In case:

1) any of Petan, Connor, Roslovic, Harkins, Lemieux, Lipon, Stanley could be traded if the right Vegas selection was available

or

2) a extremely valuable asset of our own is provided for multiple pieces. Now what recent holdout, by many albeit spurious sources, wants to play in a US market, has a US girlfriend, is 3 years away from UFA status, just played an incredible season, is currently cost controlled & whose value is thru the ceiling may be trade bait for an outstanding return of epic proportions, cementing this teams strength now & for years to come?

23 days to the auction. Whatever the auction price is, Jets have all the pieces to win any bidding war.

 

[scarbrow21]

The thing is though that there really are not a lot of teams that have wasted expansion slots to trade TO if you are a team that has a good player you might lose. Only 1 or 2 teams likely have an available spot IMO.

Also, it's not that Vegas is going to have 9-13 2nd pairing D men on their roster. It's that on day 1 when the protected lists come out, 30 GM's are going to see what players are available. Then the auction begins. There should very well be some very usable players available that could be very good additions to the Jets. Problem is we'll have to outbid the other teams, AND make it worth more to Vegas than just keeping the player.

I see VAN, CAR, BUF, ARZ, COL, NJD, TOR as teams with the ability to be buyers and not at all worried about expansion.
Then there's the teams like WPG, TB, STL, PHI, NSH, EDM, DAL, CGY,CHI, who will lose a decent player but nothing worth even a 1st round pick to protect (similar to us and Lowry can be replaced internally) These teams could use the opportunity to get what they need through Vegas, or before from the teams looking to get out of trouble.

The teams that can't trade their way out of the mess they're in for expansion are NYI, MIN, LAK, CBJ, FLA. So assuming that LV will get:

NYI-A 2nd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Nelson, De Haan, Pullock)
MIN-A 2nd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Scandella/Brodin or Nino/Granlund)
LAK- 2nd/3rd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Forbort/McNabb/Martinez)
CBJ- 2nd/3rd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Karlsson, Andersson Jack Johnson)
FLA- 2nd/3rd pairing D (Demers/Petrovic/Pysyk)

Doing the matching games, there's more teams that could take advantage and acquire those players before expansion, then teams that want to move assets to get a return.

ONLY 2 Teams barring a massive blockbuster can't do anything and that's MIN and NYI.

 

[scarbrow21]

Teams have known the rules of the expansion draft since June of 2016. They've had a year to get their ducks in a row.

We're down to 23 days before protected lists have to be handed in with nary a sign or even the usual talk from reputable sources that deals are coming, let alone the significant amount of deals you are suggesting that need to be made.

As of right now the players being made available will surely allow Vegas to be very competitive. Factor in whatever excess they draft will need to be virtually immediately be dealt, & further pieces of their already decent team will be added.

Rather than "list off" my ideas to debunk, when you've already engaged someone "in depth" on this very matter, why not provide links to this conversation?

Would save both of us a lot of time.

was a verbal discussion unfortunately!

 

[Huffer]

I see VAN, CAR, BUF, ARZ, COL, NJD, TOR as teams with the ability to be buyers and not at all worried about expansion.
Then there's the teams like WPG, TB, STL, PHI, NSH, EDM, DAL, CGY,CHI, who will lose a decent player but nothing worth even a 1st round pick to protect (similar to us and Lowry can be replaced internally) These teams could use the opportunity to get what they need through Vegas, or before from the teams looking to get out of trouble.

The teams that can't trade their way out of the mess they're in for expansion are NYI, MIN, LAK, CBJ, FLA. So assuming that LV will get:

NYI-A 2nd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Nelson, De Haan, Pullock)
MIN-A 2nd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Scandella/Brodin or Nino/Granlund)
LAK- 2nd/3rd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Forbort/McNabb/Martinez)
CBJ- 2nd/3rd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Karlsson, Andersson Jack Johnson)
FLA- 2nd/3rd pairing D (Demers/Petrovic/Pysyk)

Doing the matching games, there's more teams that could take advantage and acquire those players before expansion, then teams that want to move assets to get a return.

ONLY 2 Teams barring a massive blockbuster can't do anything and that's MIN and NYI.

I didn't think it was that many. But those teams FOR SURE should be trying to add a player from the second list of teams if they have the space. If they don't before the expansion draft I'd be surprised.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I see VAN, CAR, BUF, ARZ, COL, NJD, TOR as teams with the ability to be buyers and not at all worried about expansion.
Then there's the teams like WPG, TB, STL, PHI, NSH, EDM, DAL, CGY,CHI, who will lose a decent player but nothing worth even a 1st round pick to protect (similar to us and Lowry can be replaced internally) These teams could use the opportunity to get what they need through Vegas, or before from the teams looking to get out of trouble.

The teams that can't trade their way out of the mess they're in for expansion are NYI, MIN, LAK, CBJ, FLA. So assuming that LV will get:

NYI-A 2nd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Nelson, De Haan, Pullock)
MIN-A 2nd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Scandella/Brodin or Nino/Granlund)
LAK- 2nd/3rd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Forbort/McNabb/Martinez)
CBJ- 2nd/3rd pairing D or 2nd/3rd line FWD (Karlsson, Andersson Jack Johnson)
FLA- 2nd/3rd pairing D (Demers/Petrovic/Pysyk)

Doing the matching games, there's more teams that could take advantage and acquire those players before expansion, then teams that want to move assets to get a return.

ONLY 2 Teams barring a massive blockbuster can't do anything and that's MIN and NYI.

Wait what?

Martinez is not being lost under any circumstance. It's incredibly unlikely Forbort is lost, even then he is borderline 4/5. McNabb is by no means a 2nd pairing defenseman.

LA is going to go Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort. They are losing Nic Dowd or Brayden McNabb, less valuable players than a Winnipeg losing a Dano. Dowd is the likely loss, not a big one. He compares kinda to a Copp type player.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

was a verbal discussion unfortunately!

Either your knowledge of the NHL is substantial or this verbal discussion wasn't as in depth as you allude.

I couldn't have an depth conversation about 29 NHL teams without access to capfriendly, hockeydb, hero charts & my personal collection of meta-data.

I do know the Jets roster very well and appreciate the unique opportunity the auction presents for Chevy to barter his way into becoming an immediate contender as early as next year...

...if the Price is Right!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

CDH would be awesome but no way would I give up 13 OA.

How about the old man Brian Campbell? He's still performing well and he costs us no assets.

If we are lucky 13OA turns into CDH in about 5-6 years. The only problem I see is that he is RFA and 1 year from UFA. He made 2.9 mil last year and probably is due a big raise. No guarantee we can sign him.