UEFA Announce Conference League:

[Havre]

Molde and Dundalk will both be in the Conference League from now on, so it changes nothing regarding that situation.

I think you are missing the point.

Molde is hardly the best team in the EL - so it could have been x times worse for Dundalk (and it is against Arsenal).

As for how many leagues get likely two teams in the EL I think the new CL (of all names) could help teams improve by playing in Europe. Right now Norway only got Molde playing European football even if a team like Bodø/Glimt are more than capable of beating quite a few European teams. It gives smaller nations a better shot at building their coefficient over time in Europe. Right now for the smaller leagues it basically hinges on one team doing like Molde are this year for Norway.

And I am not arguing that Norway necessarily have deserved more teams in the EL. Most Norwegian clubs over the last years have been embarrassingly poor in the EL. Rosenborg might even have some sort of record in games not won in a row or something. The new CL would be much more suitable for most Norwegian clubs most years.

 

[Albatros]

You do realize that Norway will have no places in the EL anymore at all? Building a coefficent is almost meaningless when only the top 15 leagues get a spot.

 

[Havre]

You do realize that Norway will have no places in the EL anymore at all? Building a coefficent is almost meaningless when only the top 15 leagues get a spot.

You do realize that the Norwegian team entering the CL qualification rounds most likely will never qualify for the CL, but end up in the EL or the new CL?

Why is it meaningless? I see no reason why Norway shouldn't have an ambition to at least occasionally have a league that could compete with Denmark, Czech Republic etc. getting more shots at CL and EL. Not that Norway would ever have a regular top 15 league. Same goes for Sweden, Switzerland etc. who got a better shot.

 

[Albatros]

If the reward is very occasionally getting one Europa League spot instead of the annual three now then what is that good for? The reward is very low and frankly not worth the effort at all, European football other than the Champions League will simply lose its value altogether in these countries.

 

[Havre]

For these countries there usually isn't much European football anyway - now at least a decent Norwegian team might get a shot at playing some decent Croatian teams or whatever.

To me the EL is completely worthless for a team playing in a big league anyway. What are you actually winning? Being the 17th best team in Europe that season or something? But for a Norwegian team just playing against teams they never play will be fun. For me that is a different thing - and I think this new setup will make it better for teams in those kind of league than they are today.

 

[Albatros]

Yes, the current format has had the problem that for some clubs from the big four the Europa League is not very attractive. Likewise the new format will create a situation where the Conference League is not attractive to most clubs from leagues ranked 16-30.

The Europa League may become slightly more attractive to big league clubs and the new Conference League may be better for those from the smallest countries. But the numerous countries in between will be left without any meaningful international club football most years. The Europa League was flawed, but this is just a disaster for them.

 

[Havre]

Right now these countries got x amount of teams left in Europe:

Denmark: 1
Serbia: 1
Switzerland: 1
Sweden: 0
Norway: 1
Romania: 1
Poland: 1

20 years ago or so the Champions League would include a lot more actual Champions from countries like Norway, Sweden etc. One year we even had 2 Norwegian teams in the CL group stages (not necessarily suggesting that is a good thing). Today they are pushed out by more and more teams from the big leagues being included in the "Champions" League. And as those numbers indicate the same thing is happening with the EL. What I would consider medium (to maybe small) leagues in Europe now in many cases got 0-1 clubs participating in even the group stages. There are some examples also of course of smaller countries doing better - Bulgaria as an example got 2 clubs still in Europe.

Having teams from these leagues playing each other in Europe sounds like a good thing to me. Should be good for the clubs and the players.

 

[Albatros]

For Swedish and Norwegian teams the domestic league will easily come first as opposed to a third-rate international competition with opponents that are either inferior or disinterested. In the current situation it would make more sense to drop out of UEFA competitions altogether and establish an independent Nordic League.

 

[Havre]

Like they used to (that league was on top of the other competitions - but as shown there is hardly many teams in Scandinavia playing in Europe anyway).

I know in Norway (probably true for Sweden as well) - they do not like how more and more spots have been going to the big leagues, but apart from that I would be very surprised if Norwegian clubs do not look positively at the new CL (few comments about it so far). If the alternative is no Europe than some Europe is better.

Personally I think a Scandinavian or even Nordic league would make a lot of sense. Such a league would compete with Belgium, Portugal etc. as being a decent 2nd tier league in Europe. But not replacing the European competitions, but replacing the national leagues. Not as a "super league", but as a league you can be promoted to/relegated from.

I think there is a unquestionable benefit in playing teams from other leagues. Right now that isn't really happening for most teams.

 

[Savi]

Like they used to (that league was on top of the other competitions - but as shown there is hardly many teams in Scandinavia playing in Europe anyway).

I know in Norway (probably true for Sweden as well) - they do not like how more and more spots have been going to the big leagues, but apart from that I would be very surprised if Norwegian clubs do not look positively at the new CL (few comments about it so far). If the alternative is no Europe than some Europe is better.

Personally I think a Scandinavian or even Nordic league would make a lot of sense. Such a league would compete with Belgium, Portugal etc. as being a decent 2nd tier league in Europe. But not replacing the European competitions, but replacing the national leagues. Not as a "super league", but as a league you can be promoted to/relegated from.

I think there is a unquestionable benefit in playing teams from other leagues. Right now that isn't really happening for most teams.

Isn't that whats going to happen in the future anyway? Especially with the looming prospect of a new Champions League in 2024 with even more power for the big leagues. Belgium and Netherlands are already talking about a BeNe-League, a Scandinavian league would generate some interest as well, maybe even an Adriatic League with all former Yugoslavian teams..

 

[Albatros]

Even in the Europa League a lot of the matches have only been desirable because of the income they generate, with the Conference League it's evident that the financial compensation will be significantly worse. So the likely problem financially will be that the prize money is not attractive enough to clubs from countries like Sweden and Norway, and there is also very little other income generated playing against clubs from Belarus or Kazakhstan. Even the prestige of playing in Europe will decline like happened previously with the Intertoto Cup.

While a Nordic League is not an optimal solution, at least the matches would be reasonably interesting and with TV rights etc. it would be possible to create income that just won't be there with the Conference League.

 

[Havre]

Isn't that whats going to happen in the future anyway? Especially with the looming prospect of a new Champions League in 2024 with even more power for the big leagues. Belgium and Netherlands are already talking about a BeNe-League, a Scandinavian league would generate some interest as well, maybe even an Adriatic League with all former Yugoslavian teams..

Could be. I'm not for a "super league" NHL style where teams cannot be promoted/relegated, but I don't mind if you get regional leagues - and potentially one European league at the top replacing national and of course then the Champions League. Not sure how it would work on a European level though - even on a Scandinavian it would be slightly tricky with promotions and relegations. Would probably be something like 4-6 teams from each country, possibly with a small adjustment factor based on the size of the country, but how would you be able to balance that on a full European level?

We used to have a sort of Scandinavian "CL" during winter. But that was the issue I guess - crap pitches and few people wanting to watch games when it is -20C outside etc.

 

[Havre]

Even in the Europa League a lot of the matches have only been desirable because of the income they generate, with the Conference League it's evident that the financial compensation will be significantly worse. So the likely problem financially will be that the prize money is not attractive enough to clubs from countries like Sweden and Norway, and there is also very little other income generated playing against clubs from Belarus or Kazakhstan. Even the prestige of playing in Europe will decline like happened previously with the Intertoto Cup.

While a Nordic League is not an optimal solution, at least the matches would be reasonably interesting and with TV rights etc. it would be possible to create income that just won't be there with the Conference League.

How much do you know about club finances in Norway? I'm quite confident that it would make sense financially to participate in these kind of tournaments.

And players are generally very eager to get to prove themselves against teams outside of Norway. Of course if it becomes a league with only teams from Norway, Andorra and Lithuania that value is limited. So far even EL qualifying rounds against teams from much smaller leagues than the Norwegian is seen as quite exciting here. That effect might wear out if it becomes a more regular thing, but my guess is it will be seen as a positive still. And playing in groups with teams from Denmark, Switzerland etc. will definitely be seen as preferable to not playing at all.

 

[Albatros]

Budgets for relevant clubs are likely somewhere between 10 and 20 million euros. Base fee for the Champions League group stage is 15.25 million (each win 2.70 million) and for the Europa League group stage 2.92 million (each win 0.57 million). So the Champions League jackpot pays roughly five times as much as the Europa League, and we can assume that the difference between the Conference League and the Europa League will also be substantial. Likely not that favorable compared to potential domestic earnings unlike with these two higher competitions.

 

[Savi]

and we can assume that the difference between the Conference League and the Europa League will also be substantial

I do wonder about that. Ideally the Europa League would get a financial upgrade (which it should because it will have less (low tier) teams, the quality of the tournament should also go up) while the new Conf. League would get something close to what the current EL pays out. I know some Belgian clubs have complained in the past on how little financial gain they get by playing EL, especially several qualifying rounds. There's not much public or TV interest, especially in the summer months, and if you factor in long trips for the entire team to (often) far Eastern European destinations, it doesn't do much in terms of profit. I can't see these teams being all too happy playing a CL group stage with teams from Georgia, Kazakhstan and Israel for scraps.

 

[Havre]

Budgets for relevant clubs are likely somewhere between 10 and 20 million euros. Base fee for the Champions League group stage is 15.25 million (each win 2.70 million) and for the Europa League group stage 2.92 million (each win 0.57 million). So the Champions League jackpot pays roughly five times as much as the Europa League, and we can assume that the difference between the Conference League and the Europa League will also be substantial. Likely not that favorable compared to potential domestic earnings unlike with these two higher competitions.

Why wouldn't a Norwegian club play a game even if it only gave them 50k? Considering the alternative is to do nothing?

I don't think this will be a revolution, but I don't see how it is a negative thing getting to play other European teams at the same level.

 

[Blender]

Removing Europa League spots for the smaller leagues and then pretending the new third-rate competition is an "opportunity" is not an improvement.

Smaller league clubs being in the EL just to get destroyed by mid table clubs from the top leagues doesn't help anyone. At least this way they will play other teams that are comparable to them around Europe and have a better measuring stick for improvement year over year than getting smoked by a club with individual players that cost more than their entire squad.

 

[Savi]

Still there's probably a 90% chance the Conference League final will be between the lone English, Spanish, Italian or German team every year.

 

[Albatros]

Why wouldn't a Norwegian club play a game even if it only gave them 50k? Considering the alternative is to do nothing?

I don't think this will be a revolution, but I don't see how it is a negative thing getting to play other European teams at the same level.

Sure they can send the reserve team like the teams from bigger leagues will do, but why send the first team to Kazakhstan or Belarus for a mid-week fixture between two more important domestic matches?

 

[Havre]

Sure they can send the reserve team like the teams from bigger leagues will do, but why send the first team to Kazakhstan or Belarus for a mid-week fixture between two more important domestic matches?

Why not? The scheduling isn't exactly rough for most Scandinavian clubs.

 

[Albatros]

Smaller league clubs being in the EL just to get destroyed by mid table clubs from the top leagues doesn't help anyone. At least this way they will play other teams that are comparable to them around Europe and have a better measuring stick for improvement year over year than getting smoked by a club with individual players that cost more than their entire squad.

Equals there are in the domestic league too with much better rivalries, every team prefers to receive a bigger club from abroad even if it means getting destroyed.

 

[Albatros]

Why not? The scheduling isn't exactly rough for most Scandinavian clubs.

For example Molde this autumn despite the reduced European schedule:

16.09. Qarabağ Ağdam (A: Larnaka, Cyprus)
2 days
19.09. Vålerenga (A)
3 days
23.09. Ferencváros (H)
2 days
26.09. Sandefjord (H)
2 days
29.09. Ferencváros (A: Budapest, Hungary)
4 days
04.10. Brann (A)

12 days international break (Norway vs. Serbia, Norway vs. Romania, Norway vs. Northern Ireland)

17.10. Bodø/Glimt (H)
4 days
22.10. Dundalk (A: Dublin, Ireland)
2 days
25.10. Strømsgodset (H)
3 days
29.10. Rapid Wien (H)
2 days
01.11. Mjøndalen (A)
3 days
05.11. Arsenal (A: London, England)
2 days
08.11. Kristiansund (H)

12 days international break (Romania vs. Norway, Austria vs. Norway)

21.11. Stabæk (A)
4 days
26.11. Arsenal (H)
2 days
29.11. Haugesund (H)
3 days
03.12. Dundalk (H)
2 days
06.12. Aalesund (H)
3 days
10.12. Rapid Wien (A: Vienna, Austria)
2 days
13.12. Rosenborg (A)
2 days
16.12. Odd (A)


It's definitely worth it when you get to fight for a lucrative place in the Champions League and play Arsenal like they still did now, but is it still worth it for no-name opponents and peanut rewards in the Conference League? Most teams would prioritize the domestic title race where their opponents are getting much more rest.

 

[Havre]

Playing weekend midweek weekend for a stretch in the autumn is not a problem. As the total number of games in Norway is not that high. 30 league games and only one cup. Few players from the Eliteserie play much for national teams as well.

Also with better pitches the season can now easily be stretched at both ends. Before that was always limited due to the weather. And we got this strange break in the middle of summer. That could be shortened.

We'll see what the clubs think. After getting passed the disappointment of it getting even tougher to play in the CL and EL I think clubs will like this new setup. And I think it will benefit players playing in Norway.

 

[Lambo]

This is to much football! More and more tournaments. I miss the old time.

 

[Savi]

This is to much football! More and more tournaments. I miss the old time.

But in the old time there were also 3 European tournaments