HF Habs: U18 World Men's Hockey Championship, April 25-May 5

[Mrb1p]

Someone named Porter Martone is bound to end up with face tattoos.

He'd look killer with face tattoos with a buckey and long crazy lettuce. The first trailer trash superstar. (Probably not the first to be fair.)

 

[Mrb1p]

I would package the Jets pick + a couple of assets to move up to grab Hemming, he is as good of a goalscorer as Eiserman is, but a much better hockey player.

Ive actually had Hemming ranked pretty high all season despite his struggles in Liiga, people have to keep in mind that basically all the top CHLers in this draft would struggle in Liiga, thats a really tough league to play in, you need to be a great skater with a great work ethic, you need to be physically strong enough too.

Come on now...

I've pretty much being saying this since we got the Jets pick. We need to move up and get a top 20 pick. Maybe top 15 if we can swing it.

I agree with the Hemming/Eiserman comment. I mentioned in draft thread that there are several players in this draft who can do exactly what Eiserman can do, but bring more game with them.

Hemming was one of those players I mentioned. It makes no sense to go for a volume shooter like Eiserman.

MacKenzie had Hemming at #15 in his last draft ranking. His consolidated ranking is #24. I expect him to go 13-19. Somewhere in teens.

No there's no one that can do what Eiserman can do, otherwise they'd be doing it. That's a ridiculous notion. It doesn't mean they can't be better players or what ever, but Eiserman is as special as they come as a goalscorer.

 

[WentWughes]

Eiserman is a great goal scoring prospect no doubt, will be a good add for a team who doesn't already have a Caufield type in place. Yes we need goals, but having Caufield and Eiserman on separate lines in your top 6 doesn't exactly inspire confidence for future playoff success.

Not sure I get that logic. If you are stating they are too one dimensional to have both in the top six that might be a point to make, however Caufield has rounded out to a good 2way player and Eiserman has plenty of runway to improve that part of his game. Having two great/ borderline elite goal scorers in your top six would be a fantastic thing.

 

[Mrb1p]

Not sure I get that logic. If you are stating they are too one dimensional to have both in the top six that might be a point to make, however Caufield has rounded out to a good 2way player and Eiserman has plenty of runway to improve that part of his game. Having two great/ borderline elite goal scorers in your top six would be a fantastic thing.

Caufield hasn't rounded out shit, he's still a liability at best. Yes to the second point though.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Come on now...

No there's no one that can do what Eiserman can do, otherwise they'd be doing it. That's a ridiculous notion. It doesn't mean they can't be better players or what ever, but Eiserman is as special as they come as a goalscorer.

Well, I agree no one else can do it on the US NTDP. But, I don't think he's the only top goal scorer in this draft. He's not someone I want at #5. If we were to somehow trade up from the Winnipeg pick for a 2nd high 1st and he was available that's different.

I've been saying ad nauseum that we need to trade up to top 20, maybe top 15, if we can swing it.

But, are you seriously saying, you'd consider Eiserman at #5?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Eiserman wins player of the game for Team USA

 

[Mrb1p]

Well, I agree no one else can do it on the US NTDP. But, I don't think he's the only top goal scorer in this draft. He's not someone I want at #5. If we were to somehow trade up from the Winnipeg pick for a 2nd high 1st and he was available that's different.

I've been saying ad nauseum that we need to trade up to top 20, maybe top 15, if we can swing it.

But, are you seriously saying, you'd consider Eiserman at #5?

"several players in this draft who can do exactly what Eiserman can do"

My issue is with this statement. It's just not true. I consider Eiserman at 5 but he's not my pick, I wouldn't be mad if they picked him, but I wouldn't be super happy. Iginla is probably the second best goalscorer in this draft and he's a much better player to me than Eiserman, yet I would never say "He can do what Eiserman can". He just can't. He's not as good a goalscorer.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But, are you seriously saying, you'd consider Eiserman at #5?

Why wouldn’t you?

At some point you can’t ignore the results.

I remember talking with some Calgary fans back when they traded Brett Hull. I asked about the goals and they blew it off. He wasn’t as good as Joe Mullen, didn’t do as much as other players… and I can understand why they said it. Hull was uni dimensional.

But he was also turned out to be one of the best players ever and I’m sure in retrospect they wished they had traded away some other player instead.

Goals for and against are what determine wins and losses. At some point you have to stop looking at ways to criticize the way a guy scores and just accept the results.

The whole point of forcing a play and hitting and anything else…. Is so that your team can score. This guy has a hack that seems to be working tremendously well.

I get it, he’s not our kind of player, we won’t draft him…. Okay. But don’t forget he’s a 17 year old kid and you could probably teach him a lot of that other stuff. You can’t teach his shot.

 

[dcyhabs]

Caufield hasn't rounded out shit, he's still a liability at best. Yes to the second point though.

He’s scoring fewer goals but putting up more assists. Caufield is rounding out his offensive game. He makes an effort on defense but he’s not very effective.

We’ll see how Eiserman does in more competitive games. It would be tough to have him and Caufield in the lineup if his game doesn’t improve, but if the habs think he’s way better than other options they can work it out.

 

[le_sean]

Not sure I get that logic. If you are stating they are too one dimensional to have both in the top six that might be a point to make, however Caufield has rounded out to a good 2way player and Eiserman has plenty of runway to improve that part of his game. Having two great/ borderline elite goal scorers in your top six would be a fantastic thing.

Why take the risk when you’re drafting 5-7? You have two forwards in Lindstrom and Iginla that also have great finishing ability and bring a lot more to the table than Eiserman. You don’t have to wait around and hope they figure out how to contribute to the game otherwise.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

"several players in this draft who can do exactly what Eiserman can do"

My issue is with this statement. It's just not true. I consider Eiserman at 5 but he's not my pick, I wouldn't be mad if they picked him, but I wouldn't be super happy. Iginla is probably the second best goalscorer in this draft and he's a much better player to me than Eiserman, yet I would never say "He can do what Eiserman can". He just can't. He's not as good a goalscorer.

I wouldn't be mad if we picked him either. I don't hate him. He's just not who I want at #5. In which case, Eiserman doesn't really matter. I think majority agree we aren't taking him at #5, and we currently don't have a high enough 2nd 1st round draft pick to take him at all. He probably gets taken between 8 and 13.

He's a volume shooter, and at the junior level, shooters/shots are generally more developed than goaltenders. He needs to bring more than that to be taken #5.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

you win with Karakter and by drafting guys like Kotkaniemi sir, never go with offens

Why take the risk when you’re drafting 5-7? You have two forwards in Lindstrom and Iginla that also have great finishing ability and bring a lot more to the table than Eiserman. You don’t have to wait around and hope they figure out how to contribute to the game otherwise.

I haven’t seen Eiserman yet and if he’s as good as people say I wouldn’t be opposed to it but like you said, Lindstrom has an evil shot and Iginla scores plenty and both are all around great.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I haven’t seen Eiserman yet and if he’s as good as people say I wouldn’t be opposed to it but like you said, Lindstrom has an evil shot and Iginla scores plenty and both are all around great.

Eiserman has holes in his game. He’s an elite finisher. He’s nowhere near as complete as others in the draft. It makes sense why so many are down on him.

But the results are fantastic. He knows how to score.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Why wouldn’t you?

At some point you can’t ignore the results.

I remember talking with some Calgary fans back when they traded Brett Hull. I asked about the goals and they blew it off. He wasn’t as good as Joe Mullen, didn’t do as much as other players… and I can understand why they said it. Hull was uni dimensional.

But he was also turned out to be one of the best players ever and I’m sure in retrospect they wished they had traded away some other player instead.

Goals for and against are what determine wins and losses. At some point you have to stop looking at ways to criticize the way a guy scores and just accept the results.

The whole point of forcing a play and hitting and anything else…. Is so that your team can score. This guy has a hack that seems to be working tremendously well.

I get it, he’s not our kind of player, we won’t draft him…. Okay. But don’t forget he’s a 17 year old kid and you could probably teach him a lot of that other stuff. You can’t teach his shot.

Because it's a vastly different game then when Hull played. You need absolute elite speed (MacKinnon, McDavid), or size (Matthews, Ovechkin), to even compete at the highest level in the NHL.

Eiserman is probably going to break Caufield's all time goal record for the program by the end of this tournament, but think about how Caufield has struggled to score at times. It's a whole lot harder to score in the NHL then against junior goalies/D.

Eiserman doesn't have elite speed. He's average size. He's actually a decent playmaker, but doesn't identify passing plays instead electing to shoot if he doesn't know what to do with the puck. He's one dimensional, and the NHL kills one dimensional players. They'll just sit on him & take away shooting lanes & his stick.

At the NHL level, you have to be strong on the boards & fight to get inside. They'll leave you to circle the perimeter all night long. Everything is about motion, moving pucks north - south then east - west to open up passing or shooting lanes.

Right now, I can't see Eiserman playing that type of game, while Iginla, Lindstrom & Helenius already do. They understand the pro game. Eiserman plays a junior game. He's talented and I believe he's competitive, so he can certainly grow his game. But, Iginla, Lindstrom & Helenius can grow their games too. They'll bring the type of games that'll help you win in the playoffs. The all out, attack the net, attack the corners, defend the middle of the ice game, while also still scoring and setting up goals.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Because it's a vastly different game then when Hull played. You need absolute elite speed (MacKinnon, McDavid), or size (Matthews, Ovechkin), to even compete at the highest level in the NHL.

Eiserman is probably going to break Caufield's all time goal record for the program by the end of this tournament, but think about how Caufield has struggled to score at times. It's a whole lot harder to score in the NHL then against junior goalies/D.

Eiserman doesn't have elite speed. He's average size. He's actually a decent playmaker, but doesn't identify passing plays instead electing to shoot if he doesn't know what to do with the puck. He's one dimensional, and the NHL kills one dimensional players. They'll just sit on him & take away shooting lanes & his stick.

At the NHL level, you have to be strong on the boards & fight to get inside. They'll leave you to circle the perimeter all night long. Everything is about motion, moving pucks north - south then east - west to open up passing or shooting lanes.

Right now, I can't see Eiserman playing that type of game, while Iginla, Lindstrom & Helenius already do. They understand the pro game. Eiserman plays a junior game. He's talented and I believe he's competitive, so he can certainly grow his game. But, Iginla, Lindstrom & Helenius can grow their games too. They'll bring the type of games that'll help you win in the playoffs. The all out, attack the net, attack the corners, defend the middle of the ice game, while also still scoring and setting up goals.

Eiserman has a lot more going for him now than Hull did. He’s bigger, stronger, better skater. It’s not like he’s slow. But shooting can take you a long way.

I don’t buy the CC argument. Caufield has been remarkably consistent up until this year after his surgery. His underlying numbers for an elite season were there. Apply last year’s percentage and he’d have scored 51 goals this year. I’m not worried about him in the slightest. If I knew Eiserman would be another CC, I’d be screaming for us to take him.

What I will agree on though is that we don’t know how much of Eiserman’s game will translate. Unlike CC who has a lot of jam and is really only limited by his size, Eiserman doesn’t seem to have that same drive. His critics are right - he doesn’t have a complete game.

I just think his potential is sky high. Develop him properly and he could be a legit superstar. Does any other forward in the draft have superstar potential? I don’t know.

 

[Mrb1p]

Because it's a vastly different game then when Hull played. You need absolute elite speed (MacKinnon, McDavid), or size (Matthews, Ovechkin), to even compete at the highest level in the NHL.

Eiserman is probably going to break Caufield's all time goal record for the program by the end of this tournament, but think about how Caufield has struggled to score at times. It's a whole lot harder to score in the NHL then against junior goalies/D.

Eiserman doesn't have elite speed. He's average size. He's actually a decent playmaker, but doesn't identify passing plays instead electing to shoot if he doesn't know what to do with the puck. He's one dimensional, and the NHL kills one dimensional players. They'll just sit on him & take away shooting lanes & his stick.

At the NHL level, you have to be strong on the boards & fight to get inside. They'll leave you to circle the perimeter all night long. Everything is about motion, moving pucks north - south then east - west to open up passing or shooting lanes.

Right now, I can't see Eiserman playing that type of game, while Iginla, Lindstrom & Helenius already do. They understand the pro game. Eiserman plays a junior game. He's talented and I believe he's competitive, so he can certainly grow his game. But, Iginla, Lindstrom & Helenius can grow their games too. They'll bring the type of games that'll help you win in the playoffs. The all out, attack the net, attack the corners, defend the middle of the ice game, while also still scoring and setting up goals.

Eiserman will play a Kyle Connor type of game if he hits.

 

[26Mats]

Eiserman will play a Kyle Connor type of game if he hits.

Jets fans aren't too happy with Kyle Connor's overall game this year. I always see them complaining about it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Jets fans aren't too happy with Kyle Connor's overall game this year. I always see them complaining about it.

Yeah well, i'll be happy to complain about my 100 points player instead of my 50 points one.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Ooh saw those Eiserman highlights. He’s pretty nuts. I think he could grow his game.
I’d definitely take him over Catton. Sheerly from highlight watching though.

I still like Iginla, Lindstrom and Demidov enough though to still put him below them I think. Lindstrom was near a goal a game even if his season was cut short and Iginla had 50 which is pretty bonkers.

Any of these 4 would be a good pick really

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

you win with Karakter and by drafting guys like Kotkaniemi sir, never go with offense

Ironically, KK had the skill but not the character

 

[26Mats]

Yeah well, i'll be happy to complain about my 100 points player instead of my 50 points one.

I'm not anti-Eiserman, if for no other reason than I don't know that he can't grow his game.

Out of curiosity, how do you like our 60 point dman versus our sub 30 point dmen? Are you happy to complain about his lapses?

 

[Mrb1p]

Ironically, KK had the skill but not the character

I don't know if it's character or not, he's a pretty hard worker on the ice and he seems to be a good teammate and knows his role. I really don't know what went wrong with KK. He has the size, the skill, the processing speed and he doesn't seem to be a cancer as he hangs out with all the Canes boys and all. He's also pretty selfless on the ice and somewhat of a pest. On paper he has it all, lol.

The only thing I can say is the self-entitlement he seems to have, he really seems to have trouble accepting criticism and he really seems to have trouble not butting heads with coaches. I'm like 99.99% that comes at least in part from being rushed in the NHL but it may also have always been there, and it just got worse by being put in that position. He's also plateaud pretty hard skills wise after his first season, he more or less always remained the same player. Is that from not working hard enough ? Is that from being in the NHL too soon and never actually developping anything ? I have no idea.

I'm not anti-Eiserman, if for no other reason than I don't know that he can't grow his game.

Out of curiosity, how do you like our 60 point dman versus our sub 30 point dmen? Are you happy to complain about his lapses?

He's one of the youngest player in the draft, he has all the skills in the world and compared to Matheson, whom you've alluded to, he's actually a forward and a high-offensive one. Matheson is neither and is merely a hockeyDB darling. He's also not playing ahead of the best defender on the team, which is probably the main reason why I hate him. And he's not as stupid, which is the second reason.

He's not even my pick, it's just that the criticism is ridiculous IMO.

 

[le_sean]

Ironically, KK had the skill but not the character

Don’t think he had the skill honestly. It takes too long for him to try and pull stuff off. He’s just a big body with a slow release. That’s why he’s getting exposed.

 

[Tyson]

Ooh saw those Eiserman highlights. He’s pretty nuts. I think he could grow his game.
I’d definitely take him over Catton. Sheerly from highlight watching though.

I still like Iginla, Lindstrom and Demidov enough though to still put him below them I think. Lindstrom was near a goal a game even if his season was cut short and Iginla had 50 which is pretty bonkers.

Any of these 4 would be a good pick really

Skill wise Eiserman has it in spades. It will depend how his interviews go...

 

[Sagikev]

Yep. Sadly that protection was well thought out and it really looks like we will get a very late pick. Still a nice win for the overall Monahan trades.

Idk man like half of FLA's team is a FA at the end of the season, they have like 31k in cap space at the moment, Lundell is due for a raise, and I doubt they can keep both Montour and Reinhart. I don't expect them to be as good next season.