Two Years Later: The Jones/Johansen trade

[JT Kreider]

Biggest loser is Tampa picking Drouin over Jones.

Could you imagine a Hedman-Jones pairing.

Biggest loser is Montreal who got suckered into trading Sergachev for Drouin

 

[Prairie Habs]

So the Predators might have had Jones while giving up a goalie, plus two players, plus the draft pick that became Tolvanen, plus a high pick next year, or they could have had a center who has already taken them to the brink of a Stanley Cup while possibly keeping a scoring winger. You’re not being very persuasive that there was an opportunity cost.

No. You don't understand how the draft worked.

A team could choose to protect 7f and 3d or 8 skaters. The press picked the second option and went with 4d and 4f. They could have just as easily went with 5d and 3f.

The isles did do this, protecting 5d and 3f. Because they left so many forwards exposed they decided to make a deal with Vegas to send a pick so they would only lose a depth goalie and a cap dump.

The preds could have easily protected all their d had they not traded Jones.

 

[StreetHawk]

Biggest loser is Montreal who got suckered into trading Sergachev for Drouin

True. But given where jones and seegavchev are in the development and where TB is now, Jones would make them a more serious contender.

 

[Buffalo Preds]

No. You don't understand how the draft worked.

A team could choose to protect 7f and 3d or 8 skaters. The press picked the second option and went with 4d and 4f. They could have just as easily went with 5d and 3f.

The isles did do this, protecting 5d and 3f. Because they left so many forwards exposed they decided to make a deal with Vegas to send a pick so they would only lose a depth goalie and a cap dump.

The preds could have easily protected all their d had they not traded Jones.

The Isles sent two picks, one of which was the #15 first round 2017 pick (the other was a future second round pick). Had Nashville been given the opportunity for a similar deal, at the very least they would have had to give up the pick that became Eeli Tolvanen. So at best they would have lost mystery goalie, a Grabovski equivalent (Colin Wilson, perhaps), a negligible defensive prospect, Tolvanen, and a mystery future 2nd round pick, which would have allowed them to keep one more defenseman than they need to win the Stanley Cup, plus Neal (whose goals they more than replaced). The Preds dealt a great surplus player for a pretty good player who perfectly fit a critical need. Only on this website is the winner/loser of a trade considered not to be the team that actually improved the most as a result, but an abstracted future value of the players involved.

 

[Mrb1p]

TIL Matthews, Tavares, Seguin, Getzlaf, Toews, Kopitar, etc. aren't true #1C.

TIL Johansen is similar to Matthews, Tavares, Seguin, Getzlaf, Toews, Kopitar, etc.

 

[Mrb1p]

In the last 2 seasons:

Johansen has 115 points in 161 games (18:42 minutes per game)

Kadri has 116 points in 162 games (16:40 minutes per game)

Exactly. Both are great 2Cs.

Ffs, in the last two years, if I remember correctlt, Danault has a better ES producrion than RyJo. Or in 2017, dont remember exactly.

 

[KidLine93]

Columbus won this trade IMO.

Nashville could have traded a different non Norris level D (at age 23) for a guy who isn't a 8M 2C.

 

[PAZ]

[mod]

Johansen is at best a low end #1C, but there are a million other ways to prove that point.

 

[Mrb1p]

[mod]

Johansen is at best a low end #1C, but there are a million other ways to prove that point.

Not disputing that, but theres also a million other way to do this. By bringing that point up, you basically just lumped in Johansen with these guys.

 

[PAZ]

Not disputing that, but theres also a million other way to do this. By bringing that point up, you basically just lumped in Johansen with these guys.

How did I lump Johansen in with those guys, I never even mentioned his name.

Poster: "no true 1C gets outscored by a dman unless that dman is Erik Karlsson."
Me: Lists 1C that got outscored by Brent Burns + others.

... yet somehow I lumped Johansen in there?

 

[Prairie Habs]

The Isles sent two picks, one of which was the #15 first round 2017 pick (the other was a future second round pick). Had Nashville been given the opportunity for a similar deal, at the very least they would have had to give up the pick that became Eeli Tolvanen. So at best they would have lost mystery goalie, a Grabovski equivalent (Colin Wilson, perhaps), a negligible defensive prospect, Tolvanen, and a mystery future 2nd round pick, which would have allowed them to keep one more defenseman than they need to win the Stanley Cup, plus Neal (whose goals they more than replaced). The Preds dealt a great surplus player for a pretty good player who perfectly fit a critical need. Only on this website is the winner/loser of a trade considered not to be the team that actually improved the most as a result, but an abstracted future value of the players involved.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the point or are unable to comprehend it.

My argument is NOT about whether or not it was a good trade. The point I'm making is that, had the trade not happneed, the preds could have still protected all their d and lost the same guy to the expansion draft.

 

[Buffalo Preds]

I'm not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the point or are unable to comprehend it.

My argument is NOT about whether or not it was a good trade. The point I'm making is that, had the trade not happneed, the preds could have still protected all their d and lost the same guy to the expansion draft.

Yeah, I got your point when you first made it, but really, it’s a stupid point. Literally it’s true, but they wouldn’t have addressed their needs and they would have set themselves up to sacrifice more players to hold onto one surplus defenseman.

Look at it this way: would it make sense to trade Ryan Johansen, Eeli Tolvanen, Colin Wilson, a couple weak prospects, and a future second round pick for Seth Jones and James Neal? Maybe to a team with no defense and poor team scoring, but not to Nashville.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Yeah, I got your point when you first made it, but really, it’s a stupid point. Literally it’s true, but they wouldn’t have addressed their needs and they would have set themselves up to sacrifice more players to hold onto one surplus defenseman.

Look at it this way: would it make sense to trade Ryan Johansen, Eeli Tolvanen, Colin Wilson, a couple weak prospects, and a future second round pick for Seth Jones and James Neal? Maybe to a team with no defense and poor team scoring, but not to Nashville.

The preds wouldn't have lost anyone but Neal. They wouldn't have had to make a trade. The fact you can't understand this is concerning...

 

[Buffalo Preds]

The preds wouldn't have lost anyone but Neal. They wouldn't have had to make a trade. The fact you can't understand this is concerning...

They needed a first line center. Which they got in that trade. He’s not in the top tier, but he suits them just fine, as proven by their run to the finals last year and Presidents Trophy this year.

Had they not made that trade, they wouldn’t have that center. Maybe they would have traded another, worse player for a far better center, but that’s hypothetical and very unlikely. And then to make an Islanders-type trade, they would have given up even more.

 

[triggrman]

In 2 years Girard might be better than Turris, it was still a good trade for us for now.

 

[Magic Man]

Jones is the champ. It's an ugly trade for Nashville.

 

[BigEezyE22]

Both teams did well with the trade, but in 20/20 hindsight, Nashville should've gotten at least an additional throw in pick.

 

[triggrman]

Jones is the champ. It's an ugly trade for Nashville.

Stanley cup final, Western Conference Champs, President's Trophy, ugly?

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Jones is a better player than Johansen, no doubt. But Nashville had to make a trade for a #1 center at the time and we couldn't afford to keep Jones as a third pairing D man.

In fact, I would argue keeping Jones in Nashville would've hampered his development. Him getting more ice time and being the go to guy has really let him grow into his role. Good for him.

Johansen is a frustrating player in that he has an unbelievable shot, but never uses it. I have no doubt he could be a 70pts+ player if he shot the puck more.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

While Jones has become the better player It equals a win/win for both teams when you look at Nashville’s current D. They had no need for SJ, but they had a huge need for a top six center. In the end both teams got exactly what they wanted.

 

[PerdFan]

No. You don't understand how the draft worked.

A team could choose to protect 7f and 3d or 8 skaters. The press picked the second option and went with 4d and 4f. They could have just as easily went with 5d and 3f.

The isles did do this, protecting 5d and 3f. Because they left so many forwards exposed they decided to make a deal with Vegas to send a pick so they would only lose a depth goalie and a cap dump.

The preds could have easily protected all their d had they not traded Jones.

No this is not true. Vegas didn't have to accept picks to protect players. NSH tried to protect Neal with picks but McPhee jacked the price up so high that Poile couldn't afford the cost to protect Neal. Do you honestly think NSH could have protected the big 4 plus Jones and not lost even more important forwards? No they couldn't.

 

[LCPreds]

Why does someone always have to be the winner?

The Preds would much rather have Joey than Jones right now and at least for the next few years.

 

[Critical13]

It's obvious Columbus won the deal, but I don't think Nashville is too worried about it. Johansen is pretty good too.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

Jones is the better player for sure but Johansen is the piston that drives the Preds' top scoring line. 2a last night, he always brings it in the playoffs. The Preds had to make a move. #1 C's don't get traded or pop up in free agency with any frequency. You have to give something to get something. Jones was a #5 D-man at the time in Nashville. All about balancing the roster.

 

[Voight]

Its still an even trade in my opinion.

People need to realize that the Preds did not have a #1C their entire existence. Whether you consider Johansen one or not is up to you but IMO he is. I think we all know by now those types of players are extremely hard to find, look at the top 30 scoring centers this year.

Every one of them were drafted by their current team except for Seguin (horrible GMing resulted in his trade), Staal (free agent but was considered past his prime when he was signed), Marchessault & Karlsson (expansion draft) and Brayden Schenn (trade; was not considered a #1 C when he was traded).

Jones was never going to develop like this had he remained in Nashville. There at least two superior defenseman ahead of him at the time and they had plenty in the pipeline to share the minutes. They certainly knew he was capable of reaching this level - don't forget he was ranked #1 all year leading to the 2013 draft, MackInnon only jumped ahead after the Mem Cup.