Two Ottawa Senators prospects among best players in QMJHL

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

So yes? I asked if their projected NHL success plays a part in the selection over current CHL production and you answered by giving their future NHL production.

So you're answer is yes? They do value NHL potential sometimes over current play? Do they take the 2nd overall guy, or the 103rd overall, if the 103rd overall is significantly outproducing the 2nd overall guy?

I think you're looking at it backwards. They are picked because they are better, all around players. They then make the NHL because they are the better, all around players.

World Junior level is probably just as close to NHL level as it is the QMJHL level. Every year, there are a handful of guys who could play in the NHL right at that moment, and that number is larger than the number of NHL ready players in the CHL, despite the pool being a much larger one.

There's a reason why guys who get picked in the Juniors are more likely to have NHL success, and thats because they are players who can excel in that structure, and who can play in various roles - something that is just not asked of very many CHL players. It's the same reason why Rick Nash got a spot on Team Canada over David Deharnais, despite the latter scoring more points. One guy, they felt, could excel in any role they placed him - from line 1 to 4. Desharnais, on the other hand, likely wouldn't have excelled anywhere - despite outscoring Nash in the NHL.

To relate back to World Juniors, I think they care about zero percent about NHL ability, other than the fact that a player who will translate to the NHL will be much more likely to excel in a WJC role than a guy who is merely a star on his Jr. team. I'm not knocking Perron, and its surprising he wasn't at camp, but I would not have put him on the team and that is fine. Just like many players who play WJC make the NHL, many who don't will make the NHL as well.

 

[jbeck5]

I think you're looking at it backwards. They are picked because they are better, all around players. They then make the NHL because they are the better, all around players.

World Junior level is probably just as close to NHL level as it is the QMJHL level. Every year, there are a handful of guys who could play in the NHL right at that moment, and that number is larger than the number of NHL ready players in the CHL, despite the pool being a much larger one.

There's a reason why guys who get picked in the Juniors are more likely to have NHL success, and thats because they are players who can excel in that structure, and who can play in various roles - something that is just not asked of very many CHL players. It's the same reason why Rick Nash got a spot on Team Canada over David Deharnais, despite the latter scoring more points. One guy, they felt, could excel in any role they placed him - from line 1 to 4. Desharnais, on the other hand, likely wouldn't have excelled anywhere - despite outscoring Nash in the NHL.

To relate back to World Juniors, I think they care about zero percent about NHL ability, other than the fact that a player who will translate to the NHL will be much more likely to excel in a WJC role than a guy who is merely a star on his Jr. team. I'm not knocking Perron, and its surprising he wasn't at camp, but I would not have put him on the team and that is fine. Just like many players who play WJC make the NHL, many who don't will make the NHL as well.

When you say better all around, do you mean defensively? Because most weren't coming close to touching his offensive numbers.

Is it the case of wanting more bergeron/toews style guys over spezza style?

I agree those guys were projected to be better, and were better defensively, but you also need scoring lines and some guys on the scoring lines had like 40 less points in the CHL.

I agree that the talent and competition goes up big time but I don't necessarily think its more structured. I often notice more skill, but more chaos with international tournaments at all levels. Players are sometimes playing off wing, they don't have set plays, haven't practiced together as much. But that makes it that much more entertaining.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

When you say better all around, do you mean defensively? Because most weren't coming close to touching his offensive numbers.

Is it the case of wanting more bergeron/toews style guys over spezza style?

I agree those guys were projected to be better, and were better defensively, but you also need scoring lines and some guys on the scoring lines had like 40 less points in the CHL.

I agree that the talent and competition goes up big time but I don't necessarily think its more structured. I often notice more skill, but more chaos with international tournaments at all levels. Players are sometimes playing off wing, they don't have set plays, haven't practiced together as much. But that makes it that much more entertaining.

I guess more structured isnt true, youre right, but for that very reason they need guys who have more structure in their game. Just like the Bergeron vs Spezza example, or why Marc Methot was considered for Team Canada (different positions, I know).

You need scoring lines, but you also need guys who can play in all zones, and who can score against top defensive players - since most teams do bring at least a few shutdown type guys. Instead of going up against one guy like that every two games, you're going up against two or three of them every time youre on the ice. That's why things like speed, size, one-touch goal scoring ability, on ice IQ and things like that are so important. It's for that exact reason that Stone, a playmaker, was able to be one of the most productive goal scorers in Canadian WJC history. Because he's big, strong, smart, and knows how to make quick plays.

 

[Back in Black]

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Haha, quite a back and forth we're having. Hope it's not bothering anyone, but I love discussion like this. I'm looking forward to the next response. Feel free to hope in yourself

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Haha, quite a back and forth we're having. Hope it's not bothering anyone, but I love discussion like this. I'm looking forward to the next response. Feel free to hope in yourself

Discussion is the name of the game.

 

[aragorn]

IMO having watched White during the development camp he reminds a little of Lazar in that he seems to do everything well during camp anyway but didn't excel in any one area. I also think he is probably a little more advanced, at least it looked that way defensively, getting back on the rush as a centre all the way to his own goalie & helping the defence out as Lazar does. He has a good shot & is a good skater but my overall assessment of him was that I thought he would be a real good 3rd line defensive player. Given what he is doing now in college though hopefully, he becomes much more of a good goal scorer along with being good defensively. I also think he has a high hockey IQ. I think he will be a real good leader for team US, will help them on the PP or PK & will help them at both ends of the ice. He's not flashy but he is very effective.

Chabot on the other hand & I got to see a lot more of him during the rookie tournament too & I thought he was very good offensively, very smooth skater, excellent vision & good passer. Defensively however although he had a good stick I thought he lacked the size & strength to move big forwards from in front of the net. He will probably be another guy that uses his stick a lot & smarts to take pucks away rather than being overly physical which he really is not & that's okay. He does jump up a lot & does take the odd risk & it's probably an area where they will work with him on the decision making process as to when to jump up & when not to. He will also have to work on getting physically bigger on stronger & I think he has the frame to be bigger. I think Chabot has some real good instincts & hockey sense too & I think he will help team Canada produce offensively.

 

[pm88]

Chances are Locke would have still produced at the world junior level. Just probably wouldn't have brought as much as other sure fire NHL prospects.(pretty much nobody thought Locke was going to be a huge success at the NHL level)

Oh man I remember watching that Locke-Foy-Sheppard line when I was a young kid. I'm surprised all of them turned out to be huge busts. If I remember they were the talk of the town for how prolific they were