Post-Game Talk (GBU): Two games in and we're already giving up on GBU's?

[Wisent42]

G: First period. Larsson. Kane. D-Lo taking numbers and scoring a goal.

B: Offense. Defense.

U: Franson's skating. Came gliding through the neutral zone on a PP, saw and opening and you could really see how he tried to accelarate and take advantage of it, and... nothing. Like a car stuck in the wrong gear. Just no torque.
And then there's the other guy, but we can't critique him. We only gave a king's ransom for him and awarded a huge contract for seven years, but to say that so far we're not getting our money's worth is appearently blasphemy.
The lines. Before this season started some of us were under impression that this forwards unit could be combined a lot of ways and still work. Bylsma still found ways to make it not work. That's pretty impressive.

Yes, this is a work in progress. I'm not worried. I'm really not. I just enjoy whining.

Click to read more...

 

[Heraldic]

Time to bump up the 2016 draft thread and make it sticky.

A lot of things to say, but I think in overall the pace of the game was a bit too fast for Sabres, and for some reason they didn't really try to slow it down at all. And because of that our grinders were most impressive while our more skilled guys not so much. We we're trapped in our zone too much and couldn't execute controlled d-zone-exits. And even when we got a bit pressure and control on o-zone down low and around the corners, we really couldn't generate any real scoring chances.

The defense needs Bogo a lot. Not least to bump time the icetime down from Weber and Franson.

But in overall, we faced a Cup finalist who have been able to have basically the same group from last year. I think we managed a lot better considering everything than was to expect.

 

[gallagt01]

-Not worried in the slightest.

-Criticizing ROR's play after two games isn't blasphemy, but bringing up his contract after two is pretty lame and pointless.

-Kane is a bull and a workhorse -- especially on the forecheck -- but you can definitely see the player WPG fans warned us about in his play. He'll opt for a low-percentage, soft shot vs. a simple pass to a wide-open teammate in better position to score more often than not. I like the get-it-on-net mentality, but he needs to play smarter in the o-zone. Either way, he's a fantastic talent...

-...SPLIT EICHEL AND KANE UP.

-I don't think Foligno's played poorly, but he's not a top-six talent. I'd like him off the PP, too.

-Risto has been very good.

-Johnson was strong for two periods.

-Reinhart was good.

Not much else. Decent performance for two periods against a great team. I thought everyone looked better than they did against OTT.

 

[mikemcburn]

Thanks to the OP for starting the thread!

Good:

- Reinhart & Eichel both on pace for 41pts
- spread of ice time (nice to see Larsson & Girgensons gettin' love, and Moulson closer to the 3rd line mark)
- Kane, really likin' the kid's drive

Bad:

- net score result, but it's only game 2 so just as long as loosing too much doesn't demoralize the youth movement...
- the possibility that this team actually really does need aged Gionta to drive a win?

Ugly:

- only two games in and already only two forwards aren't holding a negative plus/minus (where is Hodgson when a good target is needed? )
- Legwand somehow managing to be a -2 in only 6mins of ES (and it's Reinhart on the bubble for being scratched when Gionta returns?)

 

[Chainshot]

I didn't have a chance to put one up since I didn't watch the game.

 

[Wisent42]

Thanks to the OP for starting the thread!

Good:

- Reinhart & Eichel both on pace for 41pts
- spread of ice time (nice to see Larsson & Girgensons gettin' love, and Moulson closer to the 3rd line mark)
- Kane, really likin' the kid's drive

Bad:

- net score result, but it's only game 2 so just as long as loosing too much doesn't demoralize the youth movement...
- the possibility that this team actually really does need aged Gionta to drive a win?

Ugly:

- only two games in and already only two forwards aren't holding a negative plus/minus (where is Hodgson when a good target is needed? )
- Legwand somehow managing to be a -2 in only 6mins of ES (and it's Reinhart on the bubble for being scratched when Gionta returns?)

Yes, but before this game Eichel was on pace for 82 goals!

I too like the spread in ice time. Glad you brought it up.

G: We're already four points ahead of Arizona in the Matthews sweepstakes.

 

[Corto]

Well, been off work for 4 days, saw two Sabres games in a row (live) for the first time in forever.

Right now, it all seems a bit bland, but there's something there and I'm sure they'll start clicking at some point within the next 10-15 games.

I am not expecting playoffs, but I'm expecting fun hockey, exciting games.
They may lose, but not in this... Hm... Boring fashion.
Right now, they never look like scoring.

Ennis has been a bit Afinogenov again, but he'll come into his own.
I don't really have any major complaints, they simply don't look like they've gotten going yet.

 

[jBuds]

Kane, through two games, has been our best forward by a wide margin.

 

[Freezerburn]

Kane, through two games, has been our best forward by a wide margin.

Agreed, he doesn't seem to ever let of the gas either. I was at the game and kept noticing him on the bench, he was almost always leaning over the boards to watch the play. He looked like he was totally invested in the game.

I don't really get the complaints about how he takes low percentage shots or has tunnel vision. If that's what he has been displaying, I'll take if I get a guy who is all in and constantly in pursuit.

 

[joshjull]

Add to the Bad

Bylsma talked in the post game presser about wanting to build the lines around pairs (wing/center) and changing the other wing to find chemistry. Thats not the bad even though he hasn't really stuck to it.. He also mentioned wanting to keep Kane/Eichel together. Not a fan of that but its early so thats not really a bad yet either.

The bad was Kane/Eichel had 5 different RWs yesterday. And Bylsma actual said he's looking to find a winger that gels with them. Apparently he left our first game after the first two periods.


I know some keep saying its early and they need time to gel. I agree with that 100% percent but the ability to gel as a team doesn't just magically happen. Some structure to the team and lines needs to emerge first. So when something actually does gel and work (Kane/Eichel/Girgs). A coach needs to let it stay together and see if it can't build on that while then trying to work on the other lines. For whatever reason, Bylsma decided to not keep those three together. Then made that head scratching comment about how he's trying to find a RW for that line but no one has clicked yet.

The reality is Eichel's had one great period of hockey and it was with Girgs as his RW. Maybe the "pair" Bylsma should be working off is those two or at minimum get Girgs back on that line.


EDIT: With Gionta practicing today I would imagine he will be the RW for Kane/Eichel

 

[joshjull]

The Good

I like that Byslma came out in a passive 1-2-2 to start the game. Tampa seemed thrown off by it a bit. I think they were expecting us to attack right off the bat. Then about midway through the period we throw some 2-1-2 aggressive forecheck at them and kept them further off balance. Nice to see smart tactics like that.

 

[Wisent42]

Add to the Bad

Bylsma talked in the post game presser about wanting to build the lines around pairs (wing/center) and changing the other wing to find chemistry. Thats not the bad even though he hasn't really stuck to it.. He also mentioned wanting to keep Kane/Eichel together. Not a fan of that but its early so thats not really a bad yet either.

The bad was Kane/Eichel had 5 different RWs yesterday. And Bylsma actual said he's looking to find a winger that gels with them. Apparently he left our first game after the first two periods.


I know some keep saying its early and they need time to gel. I agree with that 100% percent but the ability to gel as a team doesn't just magically happen. Some structure to the team and lines needs to emerge first. So when something actually does gel and work (Kane/Eichel/Girgs). A coach needs to let it stay together and see if it can't build on that while then trying to work on the other lines. For whatever reason, Bylsma decided to not keep those three together. Then made that head scratching comment about how he's trying to find a RW for that line but no one has clicked yet.

The reality is Eichel's had one great period of hockey and it was with Girgs as his RW. Maybe the "pair" Bylsma should be working off is those two or at minimum get Girgs back on that line.


EDIT: With Gionta practicing today I would imagine he will be the RW for Kane/Eichel

I agree with all of this. Again, it's early, but I'm worried that Bylsma is too stubborn. I hope he's not but it does feel like he's gotten an idea into his head (Eichel/Kane) and won't let go of it. On the other hand, there's a reason or two while he's a coach and not me, so I'm curious to know what he sees in those two that I don't.

 

[Wisent42]

The Good

I like that Byslma came out in a passive 1-2-2 to start the game. Tampa seemed thrown off by it a bit. I think they were expecting us to attack right off the bat. Then about midway through the period we throw some 2-1-2 aggressive forecheck at them and kept them further off balance. Nice to see smart tactics like that.

Bah, tactics! Tactics are for nancies! Compete! That's all you need.

 

[Team Cozens]

Kane, through two games, has been our best forward by a wide margin.

I have been very impressed with Reinhart through the first 2 games.
Especially given his ice time. In one shift in particular he won the draw in our zone and worked it up for a quick shot.... it was an easy save but you could tell Reinhart was only trying to get an offensive zone draw. Of course the lines were changed and his 10 second shift was over.
We need Bogo back asap.
Push #46 way down in order
Push #25 to the 300 level.

G: Kane's hustle
Reinharts brain
Pysk's puck movement
First period

B: #25
Third period

U: #46
Second period

 

[joshjull]

I agree with all of this. Again, it's early, but I'm worried that Bylsma is too stubborn. I hope he's not but it does feel like he's gotten an idea into his head (Eichel/Kane) and won't let go of it. On the other hand, there's a reason or two while he's a coach and not me, so I'm curious to know what he sees in those two that I don't.

He sees two very big, strong powerful skaters that he hopes can gel. If they gel they can do some serious damage. The issue with them together is they both like the puck, like to be the driving force of their line and have similar offense instincts. They seem to be each others shadow sometimes because of those instincts.

 

[joshjull]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Bylsma was killing time with the RWs on that line until Gionta got back. He has talked quite a bit about how he likes what Gionta brings to that line before his injury.

 

[Kyndig]

-Not worried in the slightest.

-Criticizing ROR's play after two games isn't blasphemy, but bringing up his contract after two is pretty lame and pointless.

-Kane is a bull and a workhorse -- especially on the forecheck -- but you can definitely see the player WPG fans warned us about in his play. He'll opt for a low-percentage, soft shot vs. a simple pass to a wide-open teammate in better position to score more often than not. I like the get-it-on-net mentality, but he needs to play smarter in the o-zone. Either way, he's a fantastic talent...

-...SPLIT EICHEL AND KANE UP.

-I don't think Foligno's played poorly, but he's not a top-six talent. I'd like him off the PP, too.

-Risto has been very good.

-Johnson was strong for two periods.

-Reinhart was good.

Not much else. Decent performance for two periods against a great team. I thought everyone looked better than they did against OTT.

Kane refuses to cycle or pass the puck in any scenario, its so frustrating and makes him look selfish. When I watch the games, it seems like Eichel rarely ever gets to touch the puck, even when hes in good position.

 

[kirby11]

Kane refuses to cycle or pass the puck in any scenario, its so frustrating and makes him look selfish. When I watch the games, it seems like Eichel rarely ever gets to touch the puck, even when hes in good position.

Kane has tunnel vision and would work well playing with lesser linemates, IMO. I remember a couple of 'Peg fans talked about how some of their 3rd liners had career years playing with him because they either got the puck to Kane and let him do his thing or scored on rebound chances after he shot the puck. Eichel needs to be the focal point of his own line.

Unfortunately, according to some Pens fans here and a few of my college buddies who are from Pittsburgh, Bylsma routinely trots out lines that go against common sense and is stubborn as a mule when it comes to sticking with what he likes, even if it isn't working. I don't wanna judge or critique him too harshly already, but it sounds like this is the norm, and Bylsma's skill guys succeed more in spite of him, rather than because he puts them in advantageous situations

 

[Team Cozens]

Kane refuses to cycle or pass the puck in any scenario, its so frustrating and makes him look selfish. When I watch the games, it seems like Eichel rarely ever gets to touch the puck, even when hes in good position.

Eichel has been in a prime spot in the O zone when Kane had the puck a couple of times. Even the defense haven't been passing the puck to Eichel when he was wide open on the break out. Bet he is getting a little frustrated at times.

 

[haseoke39]

Kane is showing up so far as exactly what Peg fans advertised. Obviously you love his compete and his board play, you see how he can put up points on his own, but when they told us he minimizes his linemates by playing an individual game, and that's how he ended up playing the third line, well....so far, I can see where that observation came from. Man, there was one play yesterday when Eichel finally had the puck and was carrying it in and Kane, instead of getting open, literally almost beelined straight into him, drawing the extra defender with him, and I was like, yikes.

 

[joshjull]

Kane is showing up so far as exactly what Peg fans advertised. Obviously you love his compete and his board play, you see how he can put up points on his own, but when they told us he minimizes his linemates by playing an individual game, and that's how he ended up playing the third line, well....so far, I can see where that observation came from. Man, there was one play yesterday when Eichel finally had the puck and was carrying it in and Kane, instead of getting open, literally almost beelined straight into him, drawing the extra defender with him, and I was like, yikes.

I knew what we were getting with Kane, unfortunately our coach doesn't seem to get it yet.


At the end of the day its the coach's job to find players that fit together. There are center options that would work with Kane's style (ROR, Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart). There are wingers as well (Girgs, Moulson, Gionta, Reinhart, Des, Foligno). Guys that know how to play off the puck and don't have to have it all the time. I mean Moulson would be in heaven on a line with Kane. He goes to the net while Kane does his thing. Moulson would have a ton of scoring chances with Kane and the amount of shots he generates at the net. You would be maximizing the strengths of those two players putting them together.


They guy that makes the least sense with Kane is Eichel.

 

[tsujimoto74]

^^ Agree about Kane and Moulson being a logical fit. Kane gets the puck to the net, and Moulson hangs around there ready to pounce on the rebounds. Put anyone but Eichel in the middle, and you've got a line.

 

[kirby11]

^^ Agree about Kane and Moulson being a logical fit. Kane gets the puck to the net, and Moulson hangs around there ready to pounce on the rebounds. Put anyone but Eichel in the middle, and you've got a line.

Based on this idea...

Ennis-Eichel-ROR
Kane-Larsson-Moulson
Girgs-Reinhart-Foligno
Des-Legwand-McGinn

Good mix of scoring, size, and defensive ability...though if Girgs is comfortable at center I'd think about swapping him with Larsson to give Reinhart a more defense first linemate

 

[joshjull]

Based on this idea...

Ennis-Eichel-ROR
Kane-Larsson-Moulson
Girgs-Reinhart-Foligno
Des-Legwand-McGinn

Good mix of scoring, size, and defensive ability...though if Girgs is comfortable at center I'd think about swapping him with Larsson to give Reinhart a more defense first linemate

You forgot Gionta. he will definitely be in the lineup when healthy.

 

[TheStorm]

Dis agree on Kane being the best forward. Seems lost out there half of the time.