TSP: St. Louis Blues Prospect Rankings and Scouting Reports

[LastWordArmy]

A deep dive into the Blues Prospect pool.

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/08/15/tsp-st-louis-blues-prospects/

Click to read more...

 

[Dbrownss]

Enjoyed it. Either we have phenomenal prospects or your generous with praise.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

The only problem I see is that we somehow ended up with one of the Bruins top prospects in Robert Thomas.

 

[Jordeau]

Good article

 

[LastWordArmy]

Enjoyed it. Either we have phenomenal prospects or your generous with praise.

The Blues have one of the deeper groups in the league right now, IMO. Even without a true Elite level player, they will be ranked relativel high in my organizational rankings. That said i look at players upside and generally stay pretty positive with them.

The only problem I see is that we somehow ended up with one of the Bruins top prospects in Robert Thomas.

fixed

Good article

thanks.

 

[Spektre]

Good article but I can't see Kyrou several more years away from the NHL.

That would be 1 more year in the minors then 2 more with the AHL.

It's really a shame he can't play in the AHL this year. I don't expect his game to mature that much spending another year in the junior's.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Good article but I can't see Kyrou several more years away from the NHL.

That would be 1 more year in the minors then 2 more with the AHL.

It's really a shame he can't play in the AHL this year. I don't expect his game to mature that much spending another year in the junior's.

I see him at least 1 OHL and 1 AHL, but of course that can change.

 

[Klank Loves You]

I see him at least 1 OHL and 1 AHL, but of course that can change.

I see a 9 game try-out, starts in the AHL next year, and then never goes back after an injury call-up.

 

[Dbrownss]

The Blues have one of the deeper groups in the league right now, IMO. Even without a true Elite level player, they will be ranked relativel high in my organizational rankings. That said i look at players upside and generally stay pretty positive with them.



fixed



thanks.

Yea, we're pretty high on them ourselves. We're glad an outside opinion shares it.

 

[PitchDoug]

Terrific stuff Last Word on Hockey. Thank you.

Anyone an "ESPN Insider"? They had an write-up recently ranking organization's prospect pools. Just curious where they ranked St. Louis. (Should I be curious given ESPN's hockey involvement, probably not - but perhaps this is a good sports journalist).

 

[Shwabeal]

Terrific stuff Last Word on Hockey. Thank you.

Anyone an "ESPN Insider"? They had an write-up recently ranking organization's prospect pools. Just curious where they ranked St. Louis. (Should I be curious given ESPN's hockey involvement, probably not - but perhaps this is a good sports journalist).

The Blues are 8th.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

I actually think Pronman's being pretty generous with the Blues pool. I don't think of the Blues as having a top 10 pool because of the lack of a top tier prospect. I understand that Kostin and Kyrou are both top 30 prospects, but I wouldn't think of them as being absolute gamebreakers or elite talent.

I'd say Tampa Bay, Philly, Minnesota, Vancouver, Carolina, New Jersey, Arizona, Colorado, Ottawa, the New York Islanders, and Las Vegas are better in terms of talent and depth. Granted, a few are arguable and for the others, it's hard to compete against them because they've had top picks.

 

[PitchDoug]

I actually think Pronman's being pretty generous with the Blues pool. I don't think of the Blues as having a top 10 pool because of the lack of a top tier prospect. I understand that Kostin and Kyrou are both top 30 prospects, but I wouldn't think of them as being absolute gamebreakers or elite talent.

I'd say Tampa Bay, Philly, Minnesota, Vancouver, Carolina, New Jersey, Arizona, Colorado, Ottawa, the New York Islanders, and Las Vegas are better in terms of talent and depth. Granted, a few are arguable and for the others, it's hard to compete against them because they've had top picks.

My GUESS (I know our prospects in relation to one another, but don't pretend to study other teams prospects in relation to Blues) was that the Blues would be ranked 11-15. My general thinking was despite lower picks in the first round, the seemingly terrific 2nd round (and later) picks would place the Blues in the top half of the league.

 

[BlueDream]

The write-up by Pronman is odd. If anything, our pool is strong because of the depth. I mean, we have Schmaltz 9th and Sanford 10th on our board if I recall correctly. That's VERY good. Those guys are more like 5th-best prospect quality, IMO for a decent pool. So to have them be where they are is impressive and shows that the system definitely doesn't fall off a cliff anywhere before #15 (which it obviously would for any team).

But, I'm happy to see him have 6 of our prospects ranked in the top 100 so he's high on them. Not going to argue about that.

 

[Oberyn]

Pronman isn't bad but I don't value his opinion enough to pay for an ESPN Insider subscription.

 

[Shwabeal]

As for the paying for espn insider, I get it so that I get the magazines and mainly for Fantasy Football, an area where ESPN has a ton of content because that's their moneymaker. I honestly didn't even know the team rankings and individual prospect rankings were out until someone else mentioned it on here. I don't even bother going to the ESPN NHL page because it's a joke with 2 paragraph articles about a player that signed or a trade, virtually useless.

Also, as long as it's not against forum rules, I can start pasting hockey/Blues related articles from insider if someone on here sees an article that they want to read but don't wanna pay for insider. Would have to hear from Easton on if there would be any problems with it but I'd have no problem doing that to spread the "wealth" to users on this forum.

 

[Brian39]

Good article but I can't see Kyrou several more years away from the NHL.

That would be 1 more year in the minors then 2 more with the AHL.

It's really a shame he can't play in the AHL this year. I don't expect his game to mature that much spending another year in the junior's.

I agree completely that he probably won't gain much in junior this year. I'm hoping we drag out a 9 game NHL tryout past the 15-20 game mark by scratching him every other game. Even if he is in the pressbox a lot over 2 months, I think practicing and working out at the NHL level will be better for his development than playing every night in junior. Combine a couple months of NHL time with a trip to the World Junior Tournament and you should hopefully see pretty good developmental results, even if the AHL would be ideal.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Also, as long as it's not against forum rules, I can start pasting hockey/Blues related articles from insider if someone on here sees an article that they want to read but don't wanna pay for insider. Would have to hear from Easton on if there would be any problems with it but I'd have no problem doing that to spread the "wealth" to users on this forum.

Selfishly, I wish that HF could allow that.

Unfortunately, we generally can't post content that's behind a pay wall for legal reasons. We used to allow posting a blurb of what was behind the wall, but now the directive is that we are only supposed to post the link.

Every now and then content behind a pay wall on one site will get posted legally on other sites (I seem to recall ESPN Insider for hockey occasionally being posted elsewhere, for example.). We can quote and discuss those specifics in full, if we are lucky enough to find it.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I actually think Pronman's being pretty generous with the Blues pool. I don't think of the Blues as having a top 10 pool because of the lack of a top tier prospect. I understand that Kostin and Kyrou are both top 30 prospects, but I wouldn't think of them as being absolute gamebreakers or elite talent.

I'd say Tampa Bay, Philly, Minnesota, Vancouver, Carolina, New Jersey, Arizona, Colorado, Ottawa, the New York Islanders, and Las Vegas are better in terms of talent and depth. Granted, a few are arguable and for the others, it's hard to compete against them because they've had top picks.

Colorado's prospect pool doesn't impress me at all. Jost is good, but I don't see him as a franchise-caliber guy. Makar is a mystery box; could be generational, could fizzle out against stronger competition. With that d-corps, there will be a lot of pressure, expectations, and responsibility thrown his way early in his career, and I think it will ultimately wear on him. Beyond those two, Timmins and Henry were good picks this year but I don't think they'll be more than support. Same goes for Greer and Meloche. Bigras and Martin are two players I like a lot, and Martin especially had an impressive year last year. But that's only 8 players even worth mentioning, and a whole lot of uncertainty. I easily put our pool above theirs without thinking twice about it.

I also think Tampa's pool is overrated. Not sure I think ours is better, but I'm not as impressed with it as a lot of other folks seem to. Adding Foote and Sergachev in the same offseason is huge, and Lipanov is a huge add too. Guttman is a sleeper I like a lot. But I'm not convinced about Howden or Raddysh. Idk, I guess I just don't see it.

Ottawa remains top-heavy, with some real good quality at the top, but beyond Chabot (best defensive prospect in the game, hands down), Brown, and Chlapik, I don't see a whole lot to get all worked up about.

I'm also not sure what to think about Vegas. Obviously, they had a great draft, picking 7 times in the top 100, and three times in the first round alone. Glass, Suzuki, Brannstrom, and Hague are all great gets any team would be lucky to have. But where's the depth? Can't really fault them for being a new team, but they just simply don't have years of drafting under their belts that the other teams do, so I really don't like the idea of putting them in the top-10 based off of one draft. I watched the Thrashers develop when I lived in Atlanta, maybe that colors my worldview a little bit, but I just don't trust it yet I guess.

Vancouver had a huge season in terms of prospects. Adding Dahlen, Goldobin, Pettersson, and Lind to a pool that already has Juolevi, Demko and Boeser in it, not to mention Horvat, Stecher, Granlund, Baertschi, and Hutton, makes losing Tryamkin to the KHL and Virtanen busting acceptable losses.

Philly is unquestionably the top of the pile right now. They have a player of major significance at every position, and in most positions they have more than one (sometimes several). Carolina is the only other team that is even close, imo, although they are unquestionably the most underrated.

Arizona still is up there too, GM Chayka is still brilliant. The Islanders had a slightly disappointing draft, IMO, but they've still got insane depth. Minny managed to have a great draft despite not starting until the 3rd round, and their depth is right up there with the best in the league. Nashville is slightly overrated, imo, but their depth is quietly impressive too. Jersey kinda has a Vegas thing going on; they've had two great drafts in a row, but before that they were bad, so I don't believe in them quite as much as I do these other guys.

I really think 7-8 is probably the best spot for us. Philly, Carolina, Vancouver, Minny, NYI, Tampa, Arizona, STL, Nashville, Jersey, Ottawa, Vegas... yada yada yada

 

[David Dennison]

Pronman isn't bad but I don't value his opinion enough to pay for an ESPN Insider subscription.

There are regularly ESPN the mag subscription deals for like $4-5/year (they dont auto-renew at full price either), and you get insider with it.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Colorado's prospect pool doesn't impress me at all. Jost is good, but I don't see him as a franchise-caliber guy. Makar is a mystery box; could be generational, could fizzle out against stronger competition. With that d-corps, there will be a lot of pressure, expectations, and responsibility thrown his way early in his career, and I think it will ultimately wear on him. Beyond those two, Timmins and Henry were good picks this year but I don't think they'll be more than support. Same goes for Greer and Meloche. Bigras and Martin are two players I like a lot, and Martin especially had an impressive year last year. But that's only 8 players even worth mentioning, and a whole lot of uncertainty. I easily put our pool above theirs without thinking twice about it.

I also think Tampa's pool is overrated. Not sure I think ours is better, but I'm not as impressed with it as a lot of other folks seem to. Adding Foote and Sergachev in the same offseason is huge, and Lipanov is a huge add too. Guttman is a sleeper I like a lot. But I'm not convinced about Howden or Raddysh. Idk, I guess I just don't see it.

Ottawa remains top-heavy, with some real good quality at the top, but beyond Chabot (best defensive prospect in the game, hands down), Brown, and Chlapik, I don't see a whole lot to get all worked up about.

I'm also not sure what to think about Vegas. Obviously, they had a great draft, picking 7 times in the top 100, and three times in the first round alone. Glass, Suzuki, Brannstrom, and Hague are all great gets any team would be lucky to have. But where's the depth? Can't really fault them for being a new team, but they just simply don't have years of drafting under their belts that the other teams do, so I really don't like the idea of putting them in the top-10 based off of one draft. I watched the Thrashers develop when I lived in Atlanta, maybe that colors my worldview a little bit, but I just don't trust it yet I guess.

Vancouver had a huge season in terms of prospects. Adding Dahlen, Goldobin, Pettersson, and Lind to a pool that already has Juolevi, Demko and Boeser in it, not to mention Horvat, Stecher, Granlund, Baertschi, and Hutton, makes losing Tryamkin to the KHL and Virtanen busting acceptable losses.

Philly is unquestionably the top of the pile right now. They have a player of major significance at every position, and in most positions they have more than one (sometimes several). Carolina is the only other team that is even close, imo, although they are unquestionably the most underrated.

Arizona still is up there too, GM Chayka is still brilliant. The Islanders had a slightly disappointing draft, IMO, but they've still got insane depth. Minny managed to have a great draft despite not starting until the 3rd round, and their depth is right up there with the best in the league. Nashville is slightly overrated, imo, but their depth is quietly impressive too. Jersey kinda has a Vegas thing going on; they've had two great drafts in a row, but before that they were bad, so I don't believe in them quite as much as I do these other guys.

I really think 7-8 is probably the best spot for us. Philly, Carolina, Vancouver, Minny, NYI, Tampa, Arizona, STL, Nashville, Jersey, Ottawa, Vegas... yada yada yada

1) It really shouldn't matter that Jost can be a franchise guy or not because that's not what is going to define him for his career. He has the potential to be a top line center, regardless of if he is the face of the team or not. And from everything he's proven thus far, like getting top minutes in NODAK or being one of the prominent Canadian players for the WJC, I think he's a safe bet to play on that first line for Colorado. In relation to Makar, yes, he has a bunch of question marks, but none about his skill and play. All questions stem from him playing in a lower tier league that hasn't historically produced talent, him translating his creativity to professional ice, and if his defensive game will progress like its supposed to. I don't think there is any prospect we have that are at, or can be at the same tier as those two, outside of MAYBE Kostin. However using the question mark argument for Makar needs to be used for him as well. So with both a potential first line center and a top pairing defenceman, coupled with players that should be NHLers some time in the future like Meloche, Henry, Timmins, etc, I put them above us because of the difference makers and depth they have. Now saying that, I don't think they are miles ahead of us because we have very good quality depth down to guys like Mikkola and Blais, but one player can make a huge difference in the landscape of a team, as we've seen with Parayko. And with our current crop of prospects, I don't see anyone making the same impact to our team that either Jost or Makar will make.

2) Ottawa is a good example of Minnesota like drafting. I actually argue that Minnesota doesn't have much depth, but the quality pieces they have make up for that in spades. Ottawa is similar in that they have Chabot, Brown, and White as their top guys, all of whom I can easily see being within the top 40 NHL of prospects. But then they have depth in players like Chlapik, Formenton (I feel like this guy is going to be something special), Bowers, and Englund. I think they are going to miss Dahlen, but the skill of their top guys are where their strength is going to lie. So honestly, just having the depth they do is a bonus to an already incredible pool. And while I'm not going to use this point in reason as to why I view them highly, Ottawa has a steady track record of finding good prospects out of the blue (Mike Hoffman and Mark Stone ring a bell?).

3) The reason I put Las Vegas ahead of us is in part due to getting Brannstrom, Suzuki, and Glass, but I put them ahead because they also have Tuch, Theodore, Kolesar, and Gusev. Not only did Vegas draft well, but they acquired established talent from other teams to add to their pool. Had it not been for this, i don't think I would have put Vegas ahead of us, but with it, I don't really think it's a question they have a better pool than us, and will be for the next few years when they load up at even more drafts.

As with any opinion, it's subjective. I don't view the Blues as being a top-10 pool, but if you noticed, I only put 11 teams ahead of us. I view us between 11 - 16 because our pool is incredibly deep, but just lacks the top-end guy (as in we only need one) to put us up in the top-10. We probably won't get that, to no fault of our own, because we are a good team that competes regularly. In fact, losing to pools that have been in a rebuild, or are currently rebuilding, is nothing to be ashamed of. But then again, as you've stated, you view it differently, and Pronman seems to agree.

 

[Dbrownss]

Ive only seen a small sample of Jost but I havnt been blown away by what I've seen.

Ive only seen the summer trials of makar, but i liked what I saw. With that said, I'd take Dunn & Walman over him value wise. Dunn has situational top pairing upside imo, but ive watched him extensively for a couple years now so im confortable with that.

 

[Brian39]

1) It really shouldn't matter that Jost can be a franchise guy or not because that's not what is going to define him for his career. He has the potential to be a top line center, regardless of if he is the face of the team or not. And from everything he's proven thus far, like getting top minutes in NODAK or being one of the prominent Canadian players for the WJC, I think he's a safe bet to play on that first line for Colorado. In relation to Makar, yes, he has a bunch of question marks, but none about his skill and play. All questions stem from him playing in a lower tier league that hasn't historically produced talent, him translating his creativity to professional ice, and if his defensive game will progress like its supposed to. I don't think there is any prospect we have that are at, or can be at the same tier as those two, outside of MAYBE Kostin. However using the question mark argument for Makar needs to be used for him as well. So with both a potential first line center and a top pairing defenceman, coupled with players that should be NHLers some time in the future like Meloche, Henry, Timmins, etc, I put them above us because of the difference makers and depth they have. Now saying that, I don't think they are miles ahead of us because we have very good quality depth down to guys like Mikkola and Blais, but one player can make a huge difference in the landscape of a team, as we've seen with Parayko. And with our current crop of prospects, I don't see anyone making the same impact to our team that either Jost or Makar will make.

2) Ottawa is a good example of Minnesota like drafting. I actually argue that Minnesota doesn't have much depth, but the quality pieces they have make up for that in spades. Ottawa is similar in that they have Chabot, Brown, and White as their top guys, all of whom I can easily see being within the top 40 NHL of prospects. But then they have depth in players like Chlapik, Formenton (I feel like this guy is going to be something special), Bowers, and Englund. I think they are going to miss Dahlen, but the skill of their top guys are where their strength is going to lie. So honestly, just having the depth they do is a bonus to an already incredible pool. And while I'm not going to use this point in reason as to why I view them highly, Ottawa has a steady track record of finding good prospects out of the blue (Mike Hoffman and Mark Stone ring a bell?).

3) The reason I put Las Vegas ahead of us is in part due to getting Brannstrom, Suzuki, and Glass, but I put them ahead because they also have Tuch, Theodore, Kolesar, and Gusev. Not only did Vegas draft well, but they acquired established talent from other teams to add to their pool. Had it not been for this, i don't think I would have put Vegas ahead of us, but with it, I don't really think it's a question they have a better pool than us, and will be for the next few years when they load up at even more drafts.

As with any opinion, it's subjective. I don't view the Blues as being a top-10 pool, but if you noticed, I only put 11 teams ahead of us. I view us between 11 - 16 because our pool is incredibly deep, but just lacks the top-end guy (as in we only need one) to put us up in the top-10. We probably won't get that, to no fault of our own, because we are a good team that competes regularly. In fact, losing to pools that have been in a rebuild, or are currently rebuilding, is nothing to be ashamed of. But then again, as you've stated, you view it differently, and Pronman seems to agree.

All good points, but I'd like to add one thing that seems to get lost when rating prospect pools: Our roster is less in need of an elite prospect pool than most the teams ahead of us. Any team can always use more elite talent. But Petro/Parayko/Tarasenko are all top end talents that should remain top end for the next 5-8 years. We can win a Cup without obtaining another elite talent in a way that Colorado can't. Our need is good to very good players that will be cheap for the next 3-5 years. We have that in spades and are in better shape overall than many of the teams ahead of us on this list IMO.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Yeah, I just disagree with Jost and Makar being safe bets for impact roles. When I see Jost, I think Schwartz, which isn't a bad thing at all, but it's not 70 plus point, true 1C player. Makar could be the next Karlsson, or he could be Justin Schultz, or he could be nothing. So, even the generous assessment where we assume that they've got two pocket aces in their hand, there is a steep, steep drop off between those two and Meloche, Henry, Timmins, and Greer. I'd put Spencer Martin ahead of all 4 of them anyways. Our depth just totally blows that out of the water, even if I concede that Jost/Makar is better than Kostin/Dunn/Walman.

I get your point that you value the presence of high-ceiling guys the most, and it's a valid opinion to be sure. I just value depth more I think. Like, say that Makar busts, who's next? Bigras, Timmins, Meloche, maybe not in that order. Now, say that Dunn busts, who's next for the Blues: Walman, Schmaltz, Mikkola. I just like that depth more. I think if our top guys bust out, we're still in a good position. If Kostin busts, we've still got Thompson. If Kyrou busts, we've still got Thomas. If Husso busts, we've still got Fitzpatrick and Opilka. If Musil busts, we've still got Kaspick. We're on solid ground. I don't see the same out of organizations like Ottawa and Colorado. Yes, their top guys are probably better than ours, but they're more precariously balanced than us. If Jost and Makar graduate this year, next year Colorado's pool is back to having no depth. Same with Ottawa, to a lesser extent.

That, to me, is what separates the true top teams (Philly, Carolina) from the rest of the pack. They've got the top talent at every position, but they also have insane depth. IMO, we've got outstanding depth, and a few big pieces too. Especially considering what we've had to work with, I just think we're ahead of those guys. Just my opinion though.

 

[Dbrownss]

Id even expand on Kostin/Dunn/Walman. Kyrou/Thompson/Thomas have top 6 upside. At this point 1st line talent can be laden with intangibles, something it seems Thomas has. Kyrou really made an impression in the WJC. He was always one of the best players on the ice.