TSN says McDavid is potentially better than Gretzky

[hamzarocks]

The name Jagr doesn't matter. It's just he is #2 on the list to compare the sheer statistical dominance Gretzky has over everyone who has ever played the game.

I still don't think people truly grasp the numbers.

Nothing in professional sports compares.

The gap is 3 pts per 82 games

Mario Lemieux 154 pts per 82 pace for his career

Wayne Gretzky 157 pts per 82 pace for his career

Lemieux if you discount down to even 145 if you assume he plays out his whole career healthy and sees a ppg drop as a result only ends 12 pts back a year vs Gretzky

This versus comparing to Jagr

Who is a 90ish pt player per 82 games with a lot of extra games included past his prime into his 40s vs Gretzky being a 157 pt player per 82 games

The more assists than pts thing only exists b/c of injury/health

Gretzky wasnt that much ahead of the Lemieux is what I am getting at

 

[powerbomb]

At the end of the day, if we could teleport McDavid back to when Gretzky was playing, for one season, he would probably put up like 15-20 points per game and thats not being sarcastic. It’s simply that much better now. People just have to accept this

So people “just have to accept” that, if McDavid played one season in Gretzky’s era, he would average anywhere from 15 to 20 points per game. This is your sincere take? In an 80-game season, you genuinely believe he scores a minimum of 1,200 points, with a ceiling of 1,600 points, in one year? Assuming he stays healthy, of course.

Just because I want to unpack the sheer insanity of your thought process here, is McDavid importing stick and skate technology from the future in this fever dream of yours, or is this all on the back of his incomparable natural ability?

 

[x Tame Impala]

So people “just have to accept” that, if McDavid played one season in Gretzky’s era, he would average anywhere from 15 to 20 points per game. This is your sincere take? In an 80-game season, you genuinely believe he scores a minimum of 1,200 points, with a ceiling of 1,600 points, in one year? Assuming he stays healthy, of course.

Just because I want to unpack the sheer insanity of your thought process here, is McDavid importing stick and skate technology from the future in this fever dream of yours, or is this all on the back of his incomparable natural ability?

With heavier skates and a wood stick.

It never works in reverse though right? Where give a hockey mind like Gretzky today's modern equipment and training, he'd be a worse player than McDavid. Just absurd.

 

[avsfan9]

He doesn’t have a 50+ point lead on his peers so no….

 

[Kranix]

have you seen wayne play recently? he's brutal

 

[Rebels57]

McDavid at his peak is not dominating his peers at the level Gretzky was at his peak...so i'm giving the nod to Gretzky.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Gretzky is one of the most statistically dominate athletes ever, in any sport. He might be a top 10 athlete ever, in the convo with Ali, Woods, Messi, Jordan, and so on. He's on that level.

Next is Richard Petty…

Sports are being played outside of the US too.


I am a big hockey & Gretzky fan but lots of people have never heard of Gretzky, let alone a mole spotter like Woods. I always hear that ****. Ice hockey and Golf are not big mondial sports.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Pathetic.

I think they're playing the long game. If they can establish a McDavid > Gretzky narrative then they will start pushing the Matthews>Gretzky narrative next. I see it

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

a) Why is this in the polls section?

b) He's not.

Yes, in a vacuum McDavid is likely the most talented hockey player to ever live, but there needs to be some context and relativism when comparing athletes across eras.

Gretzky is one of the most statistically dominate athletes ever, in any sport. He might be a top 10 athlete ever, in the convo with Ali, Woods, Messi, Jordan, and so on. He's on that level.

Dominant *****

 

[Spirits]

McDavid is a great player but no one compares to Gretzky, and no one likely ever will.

Homers already are.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I’ve been around long enough to have seen Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros, and Crosby…the later two mentioned because they were the “next ones”.

Mcdavid belongs in that conversation and that’s the best compliment you can pay a player. He’s beyond Lindros and Crosby. He’s already one of the best ever. I don’t think you’ll ever have an answer to who’s specifically better. Statistically it’s Gretzky, I’m a Lemieux guy….Mcdavid isn’t better than those two to me. Not yet. They had a next level for big games in the playoffs that we’ve seen a glimpse of with 97, but not to the same extent. He’s done it time and again in the regular season. To me it’s not about the hardware, it’s just seeing those big plays in the really big moments.

That’s the difference between him and the top four or five.

was that a written or video article, probably best to post it, if starting a thread about it.

 

[Spirits]

If McDavid doesn't find himself hoisting a cup or having a gold medal draped around his neck, does anyone actually see his legacy to the game as higher than Crosby?

If he doesn't match Crosby's cups he won't even stack up vs Sid.

 

[sabremike]

These type of debates are pointless and absurd. You can only compare guys within the era they played, the idea of a greatest of all time is something that does not exist.

 

[Spirits]

He'd have to drag a 200lb man behind him all the way down the ice. What McDavid would think is a penalty, certainly wasn't then. Hooking, holding, cross-checking, interference were all just considered "good defense" then.

He'd also amost certainly struggle with the physicality of the game. The game they played then only vaguely resembles todays game.

Plus McDavid would have to learn how to play defense.

 

[BB79]

These type of debates are pointless and absurd. You can only compare guys within the era they played, the idea of a greatest of all time is something that does not exist.

+1000

So tired of these comparing eras type deals.

 

[Video Nasty]

The gap is 3 pts per 82 games

Mario Lemieux 154 pts per 82 pace for his career

Wayne Gretzky 157 pts per 82 pace for his career

Lemieux if you discount down to even 145 if you assume he plays out his whole career healthy and sees a ppg drop as a result only ends 12 pts back a year vs Gretzky

This versus comparing to Jagr

Who is a 90ish pt player per 82 games with a lot of extra games included past his prime into his 40s vs Gretzky being a 157 pt player per 82 games

The more assists than pts thing only exists b/c of injury/health

Gretzky wasnt that much ahead of the Lemieux is what I am getting at

He was until he played nearly double the career Lemieux did.

Gretzky’s 1,773 points in 745 games (number of games Lemieux played upon first retirement): 2.38 PPG or 195 points per 82 games played versus 1,494 points for Lemieux: 2.01 PPG or 164 points per 82 games played.

Or 2,128 points in 915 games for Gretzky versus the 1,723 points in 915 games Lemieux retired with: 2.33 PPG vs. 1.88.

But sure, let’s pretend it was close.

*Cue excuses related Mario’s poor eating habits, smoking, not stretching to avoid injuries and help when he did, cancer etc while ignoring Gretzky’s own injuries and his career almost ending in 1993*

 

[hamzarocks]

He was until he played nearly double the career Lemieux did.

Gretzky’s 1,773 points in 745 games (number of games Lemieux played upon first retirement): 2.38 PPG or 195 points per 82 games played versus 1,494 points for Lemieux: 2.01 PPG or 164 points per 82 games played.

Or 2,128 points in 915 games for Gretzky versus the 1,723 points in 915 games Lemieux retired with: 2.33 PPG vs. 1.88.

But sure, let’s pretend it was close.

*Cue excuses related Mario’s poor eating habits, smoking, not stretching to avoid injuries and help when he did, cancer etc while ignoring Gretzky’s own injuries and his career almost ending in 1993*

Gretzlys first 745 and first 915 games both dont include past prime tail/end years for Lemieux in DPE 1.0 era while Gretzky played his first 745 and 915 in incredibly high scoring 80s injury free.

Lemieux career is weird b/c he missed so much time and when he did get some games it was DPE 1.0 with him being injured for portions of that as well.

You look at peak vs peak Gretzky has 215 in 80 vs 199 in 76. Here Gretzky is about 5-6 pts better if both play 80 games

Prime wise Lemiex has 6 rosses in 11 healthyish years (1985 to 1990, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2003) or ~54%

Gretzky has 9 rosses in 14 years (1981 to 1993) or 64%

Career wise their dominance like I mentioned comes out to roughly equal on per game basis with Lemieux benefiting ppg wise but being hurt ross/hart/lindsay wise as he would have 3-4 more of each had he been healthy to the extent of Gretzky

My guesstimate of 145 pts per 82 vs say 160 pts per 82 for their career I'd say is pretty fair

~10% difference expected, with Lemieux being ahead in goals and Gretzky in pts

This is much closer a comparison (Crosby vs OV type with Crosby better by a clear margin but same tier)

Gretzky getting compared to a Crosby/Jagr/OV etc is just dumb.

Only Lemieix compares career to career. Mcdavid is half-way there and very well could be another comparison when his career ends but not yet.

 

[Midnight Judges]

McDavid at his peak is not dominating his peers at the level Gretzky was at his peak...so i'm giving the nod to Gretzky.

Gretzky would likely not dominate McDavid's peer group to the extent that Gretzky dominated Gretzky's peer group.

 

[Rebels57]

Gretzky would likely not dominate McDavid's peer group to the extent that Gretzky dominated Gretzky's peer group.

Doesnt matter. You can only be properly judged against your peers. He dominated his more than anyone in NA sports history aside from arguably Wilt Chamberlain.

 

[Video Nasty]

Gretzlys first 745 and first 915 games both dont include past prime tail/end years for Lemieux in DPE 1.0 era while Gretzky played his first 745 and 915 in incredibly high scoring 80s injury free.

Lemieux career is weird b/c he missed so much time and when he did get some games it was DPE 1.0 with him being injured for portions of that as well.

You look at peak vs peak Gretzky has 215 in 80 vs 199 in 76. Here Gretzky is about 5-6 pts better if both play 80 games

Prime wise Lemiex has 6 rosses in 11 healthyish years (1985 to 1990, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2003) or ~54%

Gretzky has 9 rosses in 14 years (1981 to 1993) or 64%

Career wise their dominance like I mentioned comes out to roughly equal on per game basis with Lemieux benefiting ppg wise but being hurt ross/hart/lindsay wise as he would have 3-4 more of each had he been healthy to the extent of Gretzky

My guesstimate of 145 pts per 82 vs say 160 pts per 82 for their career I'd say is pretty fair

~10% difference expected, with Lemieux being ahead in goals and Gretzky in pts

This is much closer a comparison (Crosby vs OV type with Crosby better by a clear margin but same tier)

Gretzky getting compared to a Crosby/Jagr/OV etc is just dumb.

Only Lemieix compares career to career. Mcdavid is half-way there and very well could be another comparison when his career ends but not yet.

We could go around in circles picking different parameters.

Fact is, Gretzky dusted him and Lemieux admitted he didn’t unlock his own next level until he was mentored by Gretzky.

 

[Three On Zero]

If McDavid doesn't find himself hoisting a cup or having a gold medal draped around his neck, does anyone actually see his legacy to the game as higher than Crosby?

Obviously absurdly talented. But greatness, is a different level of fame.

If he does one of the above, preferable both, and multiple times.....the sky is the limit on where he slots on the all-time greatness list.

I think the TSN intern accidentally used Gretzky instead of Crosby for the original article. McDavid is good, but he’s nowhere near a Gretzky level player

 

[PensandCaps]

I could believe that if we were to talk about 100 years ago when pro hockey was a novelty and even then 15-20 points would be an exaggeration though something like 5 points per game on average and a hattrick every other game would in my opinion be possible.

What I don't get is why would you think Gretzky's generation was somehow so bad? The guy is still alive and not even that old, it's not like he played in the 19th century... You realize that when Gretzky was a child virtually every kid in Canada played hockey? Or that every kid over the age of 6 could swim, climb and skate?

I've already posted this before but it's valid to post this again:


The guy references a study which compared the strength of the average guy today vs 30 years ago. The differences are astounding. People today are much weaker. The worldwide talent pool is also smaller. Fewer kids play the sport.

Is it that players in Gretzky's era look less impressive? That's the skate and stick technology. I'd say that since at least the late 80s the game looks quite modern. When I watch the highlights of the 90s stars I am actually very impressed. How was 43-44 year old grandpa Jagr on the level of Barkov and Huberdeau (young stars of today) while 20 years post prime and never even reaching the levels of Lemieux/Gretzky?

Is it that it is hard to believe there hasn't been a player of such a caliber for 30 years while in the late 80s early 90s there were two at the same time? Well that is down to randomness. Before Orr there hadn't been a player like that since the beginning of hockey. It is what it is.

lol. "downfall of men" lmaoo.

 

[North Cole]

If McDavid doesn't find himself hoisting a cup or having a gold medal draped around his neck, does anyone actually see his legacy to the game as higher than Crosby?

Obviously absurdly talented. But greatness, is a different level of fame.

If he does one of the above, preferable both, and multiple times.....the sky is the limit on where he slots on the all-time greatness list.

One cup should do it. Gold medal is irrelevant for this generation until we actually see them go to the Olympics.

 

[Despote]

It's hard to imagine what Gretzky could've done more in his time.

 

[devo09]

McDavid at his peak is not dominating his peers at the level Gretzky was at his peak...so i'm giving the nod to Gretzky.

I disagree. I think you need to remember the extreme parity among NHL players nowadays vs 30-40 years ago. Winning a scoring title by 25 points today is like winning it by 70 in Gretzkys era.