TSN says McDavid is potentially better than Gretzky
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The Crypto Guy
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LeonDraisaitl
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HFpapi
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a) Why is this in the polls section?
b) He's not.
Yes, in a vacuum McDavid is likely the most talented hockey player to ever live, but there needs to be some context and relativism when comparing athletes across eras.
Gretzky is one of the most statistically dominate athletes ever, in any sport. He might be a top 10 athlete ever, in the convo with Ali, Woods, Messi, Jordan, and so on. He's on that level.
b) He's not.
Yes, in a vacuum McDavid is likely the most talented hockey player to ever live, but there needs to be some context and relativism when comparing athletes across eras.
Gretzky is one of the most statistically dominate athletes ever, in any sport. He might be a top 10 athlete ever, in the convo with Ali, Woods, Messi, Jordan, and so on. He's on that level.
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Best player since Lemieux but no , not better than Gretzky , let's settle down here please TSN
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
I agree.
Nuts that he has a shot at winning the art Ross. Last 5 games no 1 or 0 point games just grinding points.
Is -1 last 3 games but I know he has made a huge effort to play more two way. Just what a player.
No.
Gretzky had 1963 career assists.
Jagr is 2nd all time in points at 1921. So Gretzky has more assists than 2nd place has points.
Gretzky also played about 250 less games.
McDavid is a great player but no one compares to Gretzky, and no one likely ever will.
Gretzky had 1963 career assists.
Jagr is 2nd all time in points at 1921. So Gretzky has more assists than 2nd place has points.
Gretzky also played about 250 less games.
McDavid is a great player but no one compares to Gretzky, and no one likely ever will.
WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHO IS BETTER IF PLAYING AT THE SAME TIME! IMPOSSIBLE!
However, it is not even close.
Gretzky is light years ahead of McDavid in terms of the history of the game.
McDavid is insanely talented. Hope he gets a Cup one day, otherwise it will go down as one of the most disappointing careers in the history of the game.
However, it is not even close.
Gretzky is light years ahead of McDavid in terms of the history of the game.
McDavid is insanely talented. Hope he gets a Cup one day, otherwise it will go down as one of the most disappointing careers in the history of the game.
HolyHagelin
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Your argument that McLennen is wrong is that he’s likely right?
Gretzky will almost certainly be the greatest player relative to his peers for the rest of time, but with an ever expanding player pool, there will be better hockey players than Gretzky that can never dominate to that extent…so what would it take for a player to be better than Gretzky in your eyes?
Video Nasty
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No, I don’t believe he is a better player than Gretzky or even Lemieux, but this is an early sign of what I’ve been talking about for a few years now: on his path to remaking the Big Four into a legitimate Big Five, we’re going to hear this kind of belief pop up more and more and it’s going to get traction.
if things continue as they have, McDavid is going to be frequently cited as the second best player ever and in some circles, the best ever.
These uncomfortable takes are only going to increase as the years go on. Time to get comfortable, even if we may not agree with it.
if things continue as they have, McDavid is going to be frequently cited as the second best player ever and in some circles, the best ever.
These uncomfortable takes are only going to increase as the years go on. Time to get comfortable, even if we may not agree with it.
LudwigVonKarlsson
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BTP
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He's the most talented player ever, he will have worse stats but he is a better player. gretzky was playing against guys 100x worse than todays NHL talent. this is obvious, he is decades younger - players today are just better.
faster. stronger. smarter. better shots. more skilled. better equipment.
use your brain and its not hard to understand.
faster. stronger. smarter. better shots. more skilled. better equipment.
use your brain and its not hard to understand.
I mean who else are you going to compere to Gretzky? Barzal or Barkov?
McDavid will certainly end up a top 10 player all-time, and probably top 5, and is putting forth a spectacular peak/prime. It's normal that fans/media is going to compare him to the very best all-time, and ask who is better, and try to suggest the current guy might be better.
No question in my mind that Gretzky (and Lemieux, and Orr) are much better than McDavid. But it's still a fun comparison to make.
McDavid will certainly end up a top 10 player all-time, and probably top 5, and is putting forth a spectacular peak/prime. It's normal that fans/media is going to compare him to the very best all-time, and ask who is better, and try to suggest the current guy might be better.
No question in my mind that Gretzky (and Lemieux, and Orr) are much better than McDavid. But it's still a fun comparison to make.
Frankie Blueberries
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I mean we will never know but they could be right.
The quality of competition (ie the skill and work ethic of the average NHL player) is significantly higher than when Gretzky played. Goalies are also better in terms of technique and equipment. Coaching and system structures are improved. Basically, everything is improved so it it is harder for a player to separate themselves from the pack as much as when Gretzky played.
This message board hates having all time greats compared to modern NHL players and is often blinded by nostalgia or is mystified by the legends. The reality is that athletes continue to get better over time and the NHL is no exception. There’s a reason why Olympic records are routinely broken in sports that are more objective in measuring success (track and field, swimming, etc).
The quality of competition (ie the skill and work ethic of the average NHL player) is significantly higher than when Gretzky played. Goalies are also better in terms of technique and equipment. Coaching and system structures are improved. Basically, everything is improved so it it is harder for a player to separate themselves from the pack as much as when Gretzky played.
This message board hates having all time greats compared to modern NHL players and is often blinded by nostalgia or is mystified by the legends. The reality is that athletes continue to get better over time and the NHL is no exception. There’s a reason why Olympic records are routinely broken in sports that are more objective in measuring success (track and field, swimming, etc).
There were two other super prodigies who reached Gretzky's level at their absolute peak. They just didn't have his longevity.
I don't understand why would it be significantly higher though. Like hockey as a sport (and most sports really) is getting less popular among kids. A lot of can't afford it even in Canada. In Eastern Europe which used to be the second region for hockey the game is half dead now...
Might be an unpopular opinion here but hockey players were better 30 years ago.
If McDavid doesn't find himself hoisting a cup or having a gold medal draped around his neck, does anyone actually see his legacy to the game as higher than Crosby?
Obviously absurdly talented. But greatness, is a different level of fame.
If he does one of the above, preferable both, and multiple times.....the sky is the limit on where he slots on the all-time greatness list.
Obviously absurdly talented. But greatness, is a different level of fame.
If he does one of the above, preferable both, and multiple times.....the sky is the limit on where he slots on the all-time greatness list.
HolyHagelin
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This argument ignores the dilution of the talent pool inherent in expansion. Every time the league expands, 25 more guys who weren’t good enough for the previous pool of teams get full-time gigs.
Is your argument that it is harder for mcdavid to put up points when he plays against guys who wouldn’t get out of the ECHL in gretzky’s era?
Edit - others are making the same talent argument. Erroneous. We have better training and PEDs now, sure, but we don’t have a better hockey mind than Gretzky.
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
I think if he keeps filling up the trophy case with art rosses and MVP's its gonna be hard to deny him even without a cup
Ace Card Bedard
Back in Black, Red, and White
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No doubt he's the best of this generation.
But there's no way I'm picking McDavid ahead of Gretzky or Lemieux.
But there's no way I'm picking McDavid ahead of Gretzky or Lemieux.
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Greatness comes down to more than sports science and evolution of the game , many players are faster stronger more skilled and use better equipment than gretzky did , hell I bet if you put Kucherov or Ovi in a time machine they destroy the league , that's not the argument
To me the "big 4" is such because you can argue any of them as #1. Some have a stronger case, but they all have a case to be ranked above one/another depending on what you like.
Gretzky his case is obvious
Lemieux - probably the most talented
Orr - Insane peak/prime till injuries
Howe - insane career/prime
To me - there are 4 separate levels McDavid could reach, realistically:
1. One of many players who can be argued as #5. He'd reach the same tier as guys like Crosby, Hasek, Roy, Jagr, Beliveau, Hull...etc. Probably a good ~8-10 players in this tier. McDavid will 100% reach that tier by the time he retires (he's already close, if he retired today).
2. Most popular pick at #5. I think this is where Crosby is/ends up. If you have 100 people make a top 10 list, I think Crosby is the most popular name for #5. I'm sure some will disagree - but I like his case because he checks all the boxes with very few weaknesses (prime, peak, playoffs, career, longevity, leadership, goals, playmaking, etc). McDavid will....let's say at ~80-90%+ likelihood reach this tier and surpass Crosby. He's not there yet if he retires tomorrow (you might argue his regular season resume is already worthy) - the thing he lacks most of all is playoffs. Ideally a cup or two and maybe a smythe, but even without any cups, if he has a lot of playoff runs like 22 or 23, he could still reach there.
3. Unanimous #5. This would basically mean that everyone (or just about) agrees that McDavid is definitely the best of that tier I listed in option 1. So he's #5 above all of Crosby/Jagr/Roy/Hasek/Beliveau etc unanimously. This is a very high bar. I think to achieve this - McDavid definitely needs to add more. 100 assists would be a nice touch this year - more trophies like Ross/Hart in future also helps. And most of all -playoffs. Cups and smythes. He's young, and is definitely well positioned to achieve this, but he needs more. How likely is this to happen? I don't know....25-50%?
4. Big 5. To me - this would imply that by the time he retires, you can make a legitimate case for McDavid > Orr, or McDavid > Lemieux or even McDavid > Gretzky. To me this seems very unlikely. It's not impossible (which is impressive on its own), but unlikely. Gretzky has 10 art ross trophies. If McDavid could match that, or come close with 8 or 9 (2nd best ever has 6), along with adding a lot of playoff success (multiple cups/smythes) in what will be seen as a more competitive era than Gretzky - maybe he can reach this tier? I'd say below 5% odds he reaches that high, but not impossible.
My best guess is McDavid flirts between #2 and #3.
Its the moments that do it for me. Those bring the memories that transcend statistics. One of the below images feels a bit different!
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