Trevor Timmins Part II

[Mrb1p]

Timmins said in 2006 and 2007 that the reason why he went hard on d-men was for organizational needs. Strangely, we never had any forward needs? He should have done more in that regard. And that's a problem that we are paying the price as we speak. And not only that but right now, we are also playing the price of the lack of findings since 2008.

2007 was not the norm for him. It was the exception. So he STILL made an incredible draft. But people have to stop going back to the stone age to try to demonstrate how great he is. Aside from the stupid McDo trade, this great 2007 draft is STILL not good enough to make us a real top contending team.

Its not about how great he is, its about how hes not better or worse than any HS out there.

 

[Whitesnake]

Its not about how great he is, its about how hes not better or worse than any HS out there.

I have no problem with "not better or worse". Now remains to be seen if it wouldn't be time to get a new pair of fresh eyes IF we can be sure that we could find another "not better or worse but different" than him. Or if we stay put.....but make sure that we get the very freakin best scouts for the entire planet. And not friends of the family or fake scouts like the ones we have in the Q.....

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Off topic question but you gotta wonder how long TT remains a scout anyway. He has a good education background, experience, a track record of some success, has an 'athletic' past.

He's said he wants to be a GM one day, wonder when he's going to jump ship for an assistant GM job.

 

[scrubadam]

Well my overall criticism is 2 things. I think TT was lights out in goalies. Very good in d-men. But awful in forwards. And he's been mediocre since 2008 until proven otherwise. And I,m including 2012.

agree

 

[Mrb1p]

Off topic question but you gotta wonder how long TT remains a scout anyway. He has a good education background, experience, a track record of some success, has an 'athletic' past.

He's said he wants to be a GM one day, wonder when he's going to jump ship for an assistant GM job.

Hes gonna have to do it sooner or later. Probably was hoping to get a chance with the Habs, but it might not be coming.

 

[deandebean]

Let him leave. Clean house and get someone who understands this market.

 

[DAChampion]

Just warning you...you are NOT going to get a reply for that post.

Of course not, he's refuting a point that was unlikely to be true in the first place.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I have no problem with "not better or worse". Now remains to be seen if it wouldn't be time to get a new pair of fresh eyes IF we can be sure that we could find another "not better or worse but different" than him. Or if we stay put.....but make sure that we get the very freakin best scouts for the entire planet. And not friends of the family or fake scouts like the ones we have in the Q.....

It might be a while because Timmins got extended last summer.

 

[deandebean]

I have no problem with "not better or worse". Now remains to be seen if it wouldn't be time to get a new pair of fresh eyes IF we can be sure that we could find another "not better or worse but different" than him. Or if we stay put.....but make sure that we get the very freakin best scouts for the entire planet. And not friends of the family or fake scouts like the ones we have in the Q.....

YESSS 100%. Q scouts are a joke because Timmins is not a very big Q fan.

It might be a while because Timmins got extended last summer.

And that is sad. But that didn't stop Molson errrr Bergevin from firing his friend. You never know.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ryan Sutter, Shea Weber, Kevin Klein, Cody Franson, Roman Josi, Mattias Ekholm, Ryan Ellis, Seth Jones, Dante Fabbro, Samuel Girard...

Well, you got one.

I have a gripe with this though, three top 10 picks in these.

Would you trade Chucky, Price and Sergachev for them ? Assuming we "know" Serg makes the nhl, for the exercise. I think its pretty much a wash.

Then its pretty much Josi vs Subban and Emelin vs Ekholm and a bunch of depth guys, and young prospect that mostly go Nashvilles way.

Its also evident the Habs are favoured in the goalie department compared to them and in the forwards.


The other big problem is that Kealty has been Headscout since 2007.

That removes Weber, Suter, Klein and Franson.


So then really, its Jones, a 4th pick overall, Ellis, a 11th pick overall, Josi, Ekholm and the younglings

 

[WeThreeKings]

Let him leave. Clean house and get someone who understands this market.

....No, the last thing I want is another aspect of this team handcuffed to pander to a very select audience.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Alright, so I decided over the last week or so to do the exercise I mentioned earlier: going with BPA based off CSS/Bob McKenzie's list. The results are interesting to say the least and bring a different perspective (at least that's what I'll tell myself so I don't regret the 6 hours I spent doing this *starts crying*). PS: I have now realized that for the most part, CSS rankings are terrible.


So here we go:

DRAFTING OR DEVELOPMENT?

2004 DRAFT

KYLE CHIPCHURA – 18TH OVERALL (RANKED 19th ON BMs LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM LIST: TRAVIS ZAJAC (RANKED 14th)

Although Chipchura put up a respectable career in the NHL (almost 500 NHL games), Zajac would have a much better pick. Loss for Timmins.


ALEXEI EMELIN – 84TH OVERALL (RANKED 28th ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: WES O’NEILL (RANKED 23RD)

Emelin is an NHLer, O’Neill isn’t, as simple as that. Win for Timmins.


JT WYMAN – 100TH OVERALL (RANKED 86TH OVERALL ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: AKI SEITSONEN (RANKED 30TH)

Although Wyman was nothing to write home about and didn’t even play 50 games (44), it’s more that can be said than Seitsonen who was not even an AHLer. Win for Timmins.


MIKHAIL GRABOVSKI – 150TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: PETER TSIMIKALIS (RANKED 34TH)

Grabovski was one of the best picks of the draft, Tsimakilis was not even an AHLer. Win for Timmins.


LOIC LACASSE – 181ST OVERALL (RANKED 24TH OVERALL)
HIGHEST GOALIE AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: JULIEN ELLIS (RANKED 10TH)

Nobody wins on this one. Draw for Timmins.


JON GLEED – 212TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: CRAIG VOAKES (RANKED 38TH)

Nobody wins on this one. Draw for Timmins.


GREG STEWART – 246TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BRIAN IHNACAK (RANKED 44TH)

Similarly to Wyman, Stewart at least played in the NHL. Ihnacak was not even productive in the ECHL. Win for Timmins.


MARK STREIT – 262ND OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BLAIR YAWORSKI (RANKED 47TH)

Terrific pick this late in the draft. Win for Timmins.


ALEXANDRE DULAC-LEMELIN – 278TH OVERALL (RANKED 231ST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: STEVE BIRNSTILL (RANKED 61ST OVERALL)

Both nobodies, draw for Timmins.

Timmins drafted four players in the top 50 in scoring: Streit (6th), Grabovski (16th), Chipchura (37th) & Emelin (45TH).

MISSES: RYAN CALLAHAN (RANKED 77TH), KRIS VERSTEEG (NOT RANKED BY CSS), TROY BROUWER (RANKED 103RD) & JANNIK HANSEN (RANKED 41ST).

AFTER ONE DRAFT, TIMMINS RECORD IS: 5 – 1 – 3


2005 DRAFT

CAREY PRICE – 5TH OVERALL (RANKED 7TH ON BMs LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM LIST: ANZE KOPITAR (RANKED 5TH)

Impossible question to answer, some will prefer Price, others will prefer Kopitar. Draw for Timmins.

GUILLAUME LATENDRESSE – 45TH OVERALL (RANKED 21ST ON BMs LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM LIST: DAN BERTRAM (RANKED 30TH)

No contest, although Latendresse wasn’t a favorite on HF and his career didn’t last very long, he proved in Minnesota that he was a top six forward. Win for Timmins.


JURAJ MIKUS – 121ST OVERALL (RANKED 24TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: NICK DRAZENOVIC (RANKED 29TH)

If I consider a Wyman a win for Timmins, gotta apply the same logic here. Drazenovic had a cup of coffee (12 games) in the NHL but was a productive AHLer for a time. Loss for Timmins.


MATHIEU AUBIN – 130TH OVERALL (RANKED 54TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: PAUL KURCEBA (RANKED 37TH)

Both became nothing players. Draw for Timmins.


MATT D’AGOSTINI – 190TH OVERALL (RANKED 64TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: JEAN-PHILIPPE PAQUET (RANKED 42ND)

D’Agostini flamed out of the league pretty quickly but he still had a 21 goal season with the Blues, which is excellent for a sixth round pick. Win for Timmins.


SERGEI KOSTITSYN – 200TH OVERALL (RANKED 18TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: RICHARD LELKES (RANKED 15TH)

Kostitsyn had attitude issues but he was still a top six forward. Win for Timmins.


PHILIPPE PAQUET – 229TH (RANKED 83RD OVERALL)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: CHRISTIAN HANSON (RANKED 66TH)

Hanson played 41 games with the Leafs, Paquet was a ECHLer. Loss for Timmins.


Timmins drafted the goalie with the most wins (Price). He also drafted three players in the top 50 for scoring: Kostitsyn (23rd), Latendresse (26th) and D’Agostini (30th)

MISSES: KEITH YANDLE (RANKED 55TH) * DON’T HAVE THE RANKINGS FOR EUROS BEYOND TOP 30

Timmins’ record after two drafts: 8 – 3 – 5


2006 DRAFT

DAVID FISCHER - 20TH OVERALL (NOT IN BM’s TOP 30/29TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BMs LIST: BOBBY SANGUINETTI (RANKED 13TH)

Fischer is not even an AHLer, Sanguinetti is a star defenseman in the AHL and played a few games in the NHL (45). Loss for Timmins.

BEN MAXWELL – 49TH OVERALL (RANKED 28TH ON BMs LIST/44TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BMs LIST: ALEXANDER VASYUNOV (23RD in BMs LIST)

Both players were given a shot in the NHL and both amounted to nothing. Draw for Timmins.


MATHIEU CARLE – 53RD OVERALL (RANKED 52ND ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BEN SHUTRON (RANKED 16TH)

Carle is making a living playing hockey (KHL, DEL & AHL) and has played a cup of coffee but at the end of the day, you expect more from a second round pick. Draw for Timmins.


RYAN WHITE – 66TH OVERALL (RANKED 27TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: RYAN HILLIER (RANKED 23RD)

White is a NHL regular, and ultimately our only good pick from this draft. Win for Timmins.


PAVEL VALENTENKO – 139TH OVERALL (RANKED 138th)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: GRAHAM POTUER (RANKED 43RD)

Potuer never played pro hockey but you can hardly consider this a win for Timmins. Draw for Timmins.


CAMERON CEPEK – 199TH OVERALL (RANKED 83RD)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BENJAMIN BREAULT (RANKED 57TH)

Both players amounted to nothing. Draw for Timmins.


Timmins drafted one player in the top 50 for scoring in the draft: White (35th)

MISSES: MILAN LUCIC (RANKED 58TH), BRAD MARCHAND (RANKED 80TH), MATHIEU PERREAULT (RANKED 202ND) & ARTEM ANISIMOV (RANKED 6TH)

Timmins’ record after three drafts: 9 – 4 – 9


2007 DRAFT

RYAN MCDONAGH – 12TH OVERALL (RANKED 11TH ON BMs LIST/11TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER OFF BMs LIST: ALEXEI CHEREPANOV (RANKED 5TH) OR ANGELO ESPOSITO (RANKED 8TH)\

I included the two top players since we all know the tragic story of Cherepanov. McDonagh is a number one defenseman, hard to top that. Win for Timmins.


MAX PACIORETTY – 22ND OVERALL (RANKED 24TH ON BMs LIST/ 16TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BMs LIST: NICK PETRECKI (RANKED 14TH)

Petrecki only played one game in the NHL, Pacioretty is an elite scorer. Win for Timmins.


PK SUBBAN – 43RD OVERALL (RANKED 102ND on CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: DANA TYRELL (RANKED 15TH)

Tyrell played over a hundred games in the NHL but this one is fairly one sided. Win for Timmins.


OLIVIER FORTIER – 65TH OVERALL (RANKED 44TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: DRAYSON BOWMAN (RANKED 36TH)

Bowman played 179 games in the NHL which is more than decent. Fortier was not even an AHLer. Loss for Timmins.


YANNICK WEBER – 73RD OVERALL (RANKED 53RD ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BEN RYAN (RANKED 37TH)

Weber is an NHL regular while Ryan isn’t; no brainer for this one. Win for Timmins.


JOE STEJSKAL – 133RD OVERALL (RANKED 95TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: DAVID SKOKAN (RANKED 40TH)

Both players didn’t amount to anything. Draw for Timmins.


ANDREW CONBOY – 142ND (RANKED 149TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: MATT FILLIER (RANKED 49TH)

Both players didn’t do anything at the pro level. Draw for Timmins.


NICHLAS TORP – 163RD OVERALL (RANKED 7TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: ZACH TORQUATO (RANKED 61ST)

Torp became a regular in the SHL but that’s not what I would consider a win. Draw for Timmins.


SCOTT KISHEL – 192ND OVERALL (NOT RANKED ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: PAUL POSTMA (RANKED 67TH)

Postma is nothing special but anytime you can get a guy with almost 200 NHL games under his belt this late into the draft, that’s a win. Loss for Timmins.

Timmins drafted four players in the top 50 scoring for the draft: Pacioretty (4th), Subban (10th), McDonagh (15th) and Weber (33rd).

MISSES: JAMIE BENN (RANKED 107TH), NICK BONINO (RANKED 173RD), CARL HAGELIN (NOT RANKED) & ALEX KILLORN (RANKED 55TH)

TIMMINS’ RECORD AFTER FOUR DRAFTS: 13 – 6 – 12


2008 DRAFT

DANNY KRISTO - 56TH OVERALL (RANKED 37TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: JAMIE ARNIEL (RANKED 20TH)

Kristo is a better player than Stefanovich, but similarly to Carle, you expect your second round pick (and highest pick) to be more than an AHLer. Draw for Timmins.


STEVE QUAILER – 86TH OVERALL (RANKED 131ST ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST MATT CALVERT (RANKED 24TH)

Calvert has over 300 NHL games, Quailer has 0. Loss for Timmins.


JASON MISSIAEN – 116TH OVERALL (RANKED 23RD ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: KEVIN POULIN (RANKED 7TH)

Poulin was nothing special but he played a bunch of games in the NHL (50). Loss for Timmins.


MAXIM TRUNEV – 138TH OVERALL (RANKED 55TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: PHILIP LARSEN (RANKED 11TH)

Larsen played in the NHL, Trunev didn’t. Loss for Timmins.


PATRICK JOHNSON – 206TH OVERALL (WAS NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: KRUISE REDDICK (RANKED 30TH)

Reddick didn’t amount to much like Johnson. Draw for Timmins.


MISSES: ADAM HENRIQUE (RANKED 47TH), CAM ATKINSON (NOT RANKED), GUSTAV NYQUIST (RANKED 149TH) & T.J. BRODIE (RANKED 164TH).

TIMMINS RECORD AFTER FIVE DRAFTS: 13 – 9 – 14


2009 DRAFT

LOUIS LEBLANC – 18TH OVERALL (RANKED 17TH ON BM’s LIST/13TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BMs LIST: JOHN MOORE (RANKED 13TH)

Moore is an NHL regular, Leblanc isn’t. Loss for Timmins.


JOONAS NATTINEN – 65TH OVERALL (RANKED 10TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: RYAN BUTTON (RANKED 23RD)

Button didn’t amount to much, neither did Nattinen. Draw for Timmins.


MAC BENNETT – 79TH OVERALL (RANKED 40TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: CODY EAKIN (RANKED 29TH)

Eakin is a top nine forward in the NHL, Bennett is barely an AHLer. Loss for Timmins.


ALEX AVTSIN – 109TH OVERALL (RANKED 18TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: SETH HELGESON (RANKED 41ST)

Same logic as with Wyman, Helgeson is nothing special but he’s played 50 games in the NHL. Loss for Timmins.


GABRIEL DUMONT – 139TH OVERALL (RANKED 153RD ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: GABRIEL LEMIEUX (RANKED 46TH)

Ditto. Dumont is playing for TB right now while Lemieux is in the LNAH. Win for Timmins.


DUSTIN WALSH – 169TH OVERALL (RANKED 146TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: DANNY MATTSON (RANKED 53RD)

Both players didn’t amount to anything. Draw for Timmins.


MIKE CICHY – 199TH OVERALL (RANKED 166TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BRENNAN YADLOWSKI (RANKED 70TH)

Ditto. Draw for Timmins.


PETTERI SIMILA – 211TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: JURAJ HOLLY (RANKED 3RD)

Ditto. Draw for Timmins.

MISSES: RYAN O’REILLY (RANKED 39TH), CHRIS KREIDER (RANKED 14TH), TYSON BARRIE (RANKED 52ND) & MIKE HOFFMAN (NOT RANKED).

TIMMINS’ RECORD AFTER SIX DRAFTS: 14 – 12 – 18


2010 DRAFT

JARRED TINORDI – 22ND OVERALL (RANKED 23RD ON BMs LIST/RANKED 38TH ON CSS LIST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BMs LIST: EMERSON ETEM (RANKED 17TH ON BMs LIST)

Some will prefer Etem, personally I consider both of them to be busts. Draw for Timmins.


MARK MACMILLAN – 113RD (RANKED 135TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: PATRICK MCNALLY (RANKED 40TH)

Both players didn’t do anything. Draw for Timmins.


MORGAN ELLIS – 117TH OVERALL (RANKED 97TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: TROY RUTKOWSKI (RANKED 44TH)

Ellis played three games at the NHL level, but at the end of the day, shouldn’t mean much. Draw for Timmins.


BRENDAN GALLAGHER – 147TH OVERALL (RANKED 174TH ON CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: BRANDON DAVIDSON (RANKED 48TH)

Davidson has some potential to become an NHLer but Gallagher is an homerun this late into the draft. Win for Timmins.


JOHN WESTIN – 207TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: JACOB FALLON (RANKED 68TH)

Both players didn’t do anything. Draw for Timmins.

Timmins drafted one scorer in the top 50 for scoring in the draft: Gallagher (11th).

MISSES: JUSTIN FAULK (RANKED 56TH), MARK STONE (RANKED 119TH), TYLER TOFFOLI (RANKED 16TH) & CHARLIE COYLE (RANKED 24TH).

TIMMINS’ RECORD AFTER SEVEN DRAFTS: 15 – 12 – 23

2011 DRAFT

NATHAN BEAULIEU – 17TH OVERALL (RANKED 11TH ON BMs LIST/RANKED 5TH BY CSS)* (Beaulieu was the highest guy available off BM’s list)
NEXT HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BMs LIST: TYLER BIGGS (RANKED 15TH)

Biggs is a bust while Beaulieu is a regular. Win for Timmins.


JOSIAH DIDIER – 97TH OVERALL (RANKED 108TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: SETH ABROMZ (RANKED 31ST)

Although Didier is an AHLer, which can’t be said in Abromz’ case, this is a not win. Draw for Timmins.


OLIVIER ARCHAMBAULT – 108TH OVERALL (RANKED 65TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: MYLES BELL (RANKED 39TH)

Both players didn’t amount to anything. Draw for Timmins.


MAGNUS NYGREN – 113TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: SCOTT OKE (RANKED 44TH)

Nygren might have been a NHL regular but it’s becoming more and more likely that we will never find that out. Could have been a win for Timmins but alas things don’t always work out. Draw for Timmins.


DARREN DIETZ – 138TH OVERALL (RANKED 138TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: RYAN TESINK (RANKED 47TH)

Dietz had a cup of coffee for us last year but hard to consider this a win. Draw for Timmins.


DANIEL PRIBYL – 168TH OVERALL (RANKED 46TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: MAXIMILIEN LE SIEUR (RANKED 62ND)

Both didn’t do anything. Draw for Timmins.


COLIN SULLIVAN – 198TH OVERALL (RANKED 75TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: LUKE LOCKHART (RANKED 68TH)

Ditto. Draw for Timmins.

Timmins drafted one player in the top 50 for scoring: Beaulieu (29TH).

MISSES: ONDREJ PALAT (NOT RANKED), JOHNNY GAUDREAU (RANKED 193RD), ANDREW SHAW (NOT RANKED) & TOBIAS RIEDER (RANKED 73RD).

TIMMINS’ RECORD AFTER EIGHT DRAFTS: 16 – 12 – 29


2012 DRAFT

ALEX GALCHENYUK – 3RD OVERALL (RANKED 5TH ON BMs LIST/4TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM’s LIST: FILIP FORSBERG (RANKED 3RD)

Some will prefer Chucky, others will prefer FF. Draw for Timmins.


SEBASTIAN COLLBERG – 33RD OVERALL (RANKED 27TH ON BMs LIST/3RD BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM’s LIST: MATTHEW FINN (RANKED 21ST)

Both players busted massively. Draw for Timmins.


DALTON THROWER – 51ST OVERALL (RANKED 26TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: MIKE WINTHER (RANKED 21ST)

Both players are not even AHLers. Draw for Timmins.


TIM BOZON – 64TH OVERALL (RANKED 42ND BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: SCOTT KOSMACHUK (RANKED 24TH)

Bozon is nothing special while Kosmachuk did well in his cup of coffee with the Jets last year. Jury is still out but him not getting called up despite injuries for the Jets doesn’t bode well. Draw for Timmins * (Could turn into a loss)


BRADY VAIL – 94TH OVERALL (RANKED 38TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: GEMEL SMITH (RANKED 37TH)

Same scenario here, but the sake of being impartial: Loss for Timmins.


CHARLES HUDON – 122ND OVERALL (RANKED 95TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: TOMAS HYKA (RANKED 45TH)

Hudon will be in the NHL next year for sure, worst case scenario, he’s a star in the AHL which can’t be said for Hyka. Win for Timmins.


ERIK NYSTROM – 154TH OVERALL (RANKED 85TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: DANE FOX (RANKED 46TH)

Neither of these players turned into anything. Draw for Timmins.

TIMMINS DRAFTED THE PLAYER WITH THE MOST POINTS IN HIS DRAFT YEAR: GALCHENYUK.

MISSES: SHAYNE GOSTISBEHERE (RANKED 148TH), DAMON SEVERSON (RANKED 48TH), COLTON PARAYKO (NOT RANKED) & CHRIS TIERNEY (RANKED 118TH).

TIMMINS’ RECORD AFTER NINE DRAFTS: 17 – 13 – 34


2013 DRAFT

MICHAEL MCCARRON – 25TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY BM/RANKED 35TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM’s LIST: ZACH FUCALE (RANKED 19TH)

I believe McCarron will be an NHLer, plus we ended up drafting Fucale 11 picks later. Win for Timmins.


JACOB DE LA ROSE – 34TH OVERALL (RANKED 29TH BY BM/RANKED 7TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM’s LIST: VALENTIN ZYKOV (RANKED 25TH)

Some are down on DLR but fact remains he has 64 games played at the NHL level. Zykov was a crowd favorite on HF in his draft year but 30 points in 54 GP at the AHL level doesn’t scream future top six forward to me either. Draw for Timmins. (could become a win for TT)


ZACHARY FUCALE – 36TH OVERALL (RANKED 19TH BY BM/RANKED 1ST BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF BM’s LIST: ROBERT HAGG (RANKED 27TH)

Hagg will most likely be in the NHL next year due to waiver eligibility, if you ask me today, I would prefer having Hagg than Fucale. Loss for Timmins.


ARTTURI LEHKONEN – 55TH OVERALL (RANKED 9TH BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: WILLIAM CARRIER (RANKED 18TH)

Lehkonen has shown more NHL upside this year than Carrier has. Win for Timmins.


CONNOR CRISP – 71ST OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: JIMMY LODGE (RANKED 21ST)

Both players are barely AHLers. Draw for Timmins.


SVEN ANDRIGHETTO – 86TH OVERALL (NOT RANKED BY CSS)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: OLIVER BJORKSTRAND

Andrighetto was a good pick at where we picked him but I’d rather have Bjork. Loss for Timmins.


MARTIN REWAY – 116TH OVERALL (RANKED 91ST)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: ERIC ROY (RANKED 41ST)

This one is frustrating to do. If it hadn’t been for Reway’s health problems, I think this would be an obvious win for Timmins but alas I can’t say so. Draw for Timmins.


JEREMY GREGOIRE – 176TH OVERALL (RANKED 79TH)
HIGHEST PLAYER AVAILABLE OFF CSS LIST: TYLER LEWINGTON (RANKED 66TH)

I like Gregoire but both players haven’t done anything. Draw for Timmins.

TIMMINS HAS DRAFTED TWO PLAYERS IN THE TOP 30 FOR SCORING: ANDRIGHETTO (18TH) & LEHKONEN (29TH).

MISSES: ANTHONY DUCLAIR (RANKED 57TH), BRETT PESCE (RANKED 40TH), JAKE GUENTZEL (RANKED 80TH) & PAVEL BUCHNEVICH (RANKED 10TH).

TIMMINS’ RECORD AFTEN TEN DRAFTS: 18 – 15 – 38

TIMMINS’ RECORD POST 2007: 5 – 9 - 26


For someone who is supposed to be the best in the business, it is worrisome that after 2007, he has more losses than wins. Obviously this method is far from perfect but (not all wins or losses count the same) but it brings the question, if picking the BPA off CSS's list (as flawed as their rankings may be) is more successful than letting Timmins and co pick, is it time for a change?

 

[Habs Icing]

Timmins said in 2006 and 2007 that the reason why he went hard on d-men was for organizational needs. Strangely, we never had any forward needs? He should have done more in that regard. And that's a problem that we are paying the price as we speak. And not only that but right now, we are also playing the price of the lack of findings since 2008.

2007 was not the norm for him. It was the exception. So he STILL made an incredible draft. But people have to stop going back to the stone age to try to demonstrate how great he is. Aside from the stupid McDo trade, this great 2007 draft is STILL not good enough to make us a real top contending team.

2007 isn't the norm for any HS. But let's look at the other years:

2003 - 4 NHLers
2004 - 4 NHLers
2005 - 4 NHLers
2006 - 1 NHLer
2007 - 4 NHLers - 3 exceptional
2008 - butkiss
2009 - butkiss the sequel
2010 - 1 NHLer
2011 - 1 NHLer
2012 - 1 NHLer (maybe another on the way)

The jury is still out on the remaining drafts but 2013 looks like 3-5 NHLers could emerge. Not great NHLers but NHlers all the same.

I agree with you that the first drafts were great but something happened in 08 or after the 07 draft. I can't recall if Gauthier became assistant GM in 08 or if scouts were released around then.

 

[Mathletic]

Timmins said in 2006 and 2007 that the reason why he went hard on d-men was for organizational needs. Strangely, we never had any forward needs? He should have done more in that regard. And that's a problem that we are paying the price as we speak. And not only that but right now, we are also playing the price of the lack of findings since 2008.

2007 was not the norm for him. It was the exception. So he STILL made an incredible draft. But people have to stop going back to the stone age to try to demonstrate how great he is. Aside from the stupid McDo trade, this great 2007 draft is STILL not good enough to make us a real top contending team.

I'm not a big Timmins fan but any good or great draft will be an exception for any scout. Nobody picks core players with any consistency. When evaluating drafting, I think you have to take all a scout's drafts into account.

 

[Habs Icing]

Alright, so I decided over the last week or so to do the exercise I mentioned earlier: going with BPA based off CSS/Bob McKenzie's list. The results are interesting to say the least and bring a different perspective (at least that's what I'll tell myself so I don't regret the 6 hours I spent doing this *starts crying*). PS: I have now realized that for the most part, CSS rankings are terrible.

Why did you leave out the 2003 draft?

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

Great post, Chris Cutter

You have to put Price over Kopitar though. Price is arguably the best player in the world, which Kopitar isn't. The only argument for Kopitar is that we could have kept Halak as our starter on top of having a franchise center in Kopitar (which we desperately needed), though it is still up for debate if we would actually been better. But this is a picky argument which is only valid with insight, no one predicted Halak would have become a 1G at the NHL level. Timmins had balls to draft a goalie with a top5 pick, he managed to draft the best goalie in the world and you have to give him credit for that.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Why did you leave out the 2003 draft?

Two particular reasons: 1) Bob McKenzie's list doesn't go that far (which I considered a lot more representative and ressourcefull than CSS's list. 2) I can't find it right now on Google but wasn't Timmins hired fairly late in the 2002-03 season?

Great post, Chris Cutter

You have to put Price over Kopitar though. Price is arguably the best player in the world, which Kopitar isn't. The only argument for Kopitar is that we could have kept Halak as our starter on top of having a franchise center in Kopitar (which we desperately needed), though it is still up for debate if we would actually been better. But this is a picky argument which is only valid with insight, no one predicted Halak would have become a 1G at the NHL level. Timmins had balls to draft a goalie with a top5 pick, he managed to draft the best goalie in the world and you have to give him credit for that.

Thank you, I'd be inclined to agree with you on Price vs Kopitar but I tried to remain impartial as most as possible since this exercise can get pretty subjective at times

 

[DAChampion]

Two particular reasons: 1) Bob McKenzie's list doesn't go that far (which I considered a lot more representative and ressourcefull than CSS's list. 2) I can't find it right now on Google but wasn't Timmins hired fairly late in the 2002-03 season?

I think Timmins was hired just before the 2003 draft, so it's not completely clear how responsible he was.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I think Timmins was hired just before the 2003 draft, so it's not completely clear how responsible he was.

Yeah that's what I remembered, thanks for confirming to me that I'm not going crazy. I mean I can probably do it later in the afternoon if people are curious to see the results.

 

[Mathletic]

I think Timmins was hired just before the 2003 draft, so it's not completely clear how responsible he was.

Based on what André Savard said, Timmins had the final word right form the '03 draft. Savard said he liked Carter but the team sided with Timmins and went with AK.

 

[bleuetbio]

Blackhawks have agreed to terms with forward John Hayden on a two-year contract that runs through the 2017-18 season.

As an Hawks fan, we got luck, as an habs fan, WTF! Several draft junkies here will tell you that we should have some consideration for Hayden over a guy like McCarron. Montrealers took multiples shots at searching big guys in the draft and never took a chance on Hayden, a 6'3 220 pound power foward and waslin the lineup Thursday against Ottawa and it was a hell of a game right away. He looked good, not the best skating seen but it was a pretty tough context for a kid and he answered realy well right away.

I have problem to consider what our scout didnt see when all DJ's here would take a shot at him

 

[DAChampion]

Based on what André Savard said, Timmins had the final word right form the '03 draft. Savard said he liked Carter but the team sided with Timmins and went with AK.

Kostitsyn is seen as a bust around here but I don't agree.

It's not just the intermediate career, it's the fact he was genuinely progressing and did emerge as a legitimate impact forward in 2008. Nobody in this community was calling him a bust then.

However, he had significant injuries in 2009-2012, and that's what correlated with his decline. I can't tell you that they caused his decline, but it's plausible.

 

[Mathletic]

Kostitsyn is seen as a bust around here but I don't agree.

It's not just the intermediate career, it's the fact he was genuinely progressing and did emerge as a legitimate impact forward in 2008. Nobody in this community was calling him a bust then.

However, he had significant injuries in 2009-2012, and that's what correlated with his decline. I can't tell you that they caused his decline, but it's plausible.

I don't think AK was a bust either. Busts don't play 400 games in the NHL. That being said, when you see so many superstars drafted after him, including the player selected right after him, you're left wanting more. After all, 9 of the next 18 players selected after him have gone on to become all-star players.

 

[scrubadam]

I'm not a big Timmins fan but any good or great draft will be an exception for any scout. Nobody picks core players with any consistency. When evaluating drafting, I think you have to take all a scout's drafts into account.

Only thing is TT has been here for 14 years. The longer he goes the more likely a player will fall into his lap. Look at Gallagher. Good pick but lets be real its not like TT knew Galley would turn into the player he is. He took a flyer on a 5th rounder. With 3 USHL players taken after Galley lets count our lucky stars TT didn't go back to that well.

How many scouts have been there for 14 years?

 

[Uncle Gary]

This team has nothing in the AHL that is even close to being a decent player in the NHL, apart from maybe Hudon. Meanwhile teams like the Pens are able to call up a guy like Guentzel and have him put up 22 points in 33 games. Whether it is drafting or development, there is a serious lack of production of home grown players.