Post-Game Talk: Trash tier team effort

[Oilhawks]

Why are you only counting drafted players with Lowe?

Because it fits his narrative, of course

 

[Soundwave]

Why are you only counting drafted players with Lowe?

Because I laid out the criteria of impactful players drafted (non top 10).

If Chia or Holland have a Hemsky or Stoll level player they have drafted please do share. I’m sure Woodcroft would like to know lol.

 

[MessierII]

Because I laid out the criteria of impactful players drafted (non top 10).

If Chia or Holland have a Hemsky or Stoll level player they have drafted please do share. I’m sure Woodcroft would like to know lol.

I mean you’re counting Tom Gilbert who was never more than a passable top 6 D on god awful teams as an impact player than skinner for sure counts. Same with bear, Marino and Yamamoto.

 

[Stoneman89]

Fortunately, I couldn't watch this game thanks to NHL.TV screwing up the feed for the overseas countries (they've screwed it up 5 times in 15 games so far).

Anyway, from the highlights, it appears to have been a 4-2 game which Carolina then pushed up to 7-2 in garbage time. (Embarrassing for Campbell, nevertheless. I do not understand why Woody didn't go with Skinny for this one.)

What's irritating is that 2 goals were scored in the final seconds of periods. That is awful.

Oh well, at least Detroit had an ever worse night, and on home ice.

Anyway, just beat Florida and all is forgiven.

And we do we care about Detroit or what happens to them?
Doesn't make me feel any better.

 

[Soundwave]

I mean you’re counting Tom Gilbert who was never more than a passable top 6 D on god awful teams as an impact player than skinner for sure counts. Same with bear, Marino and Yamamoto.

Marino never did anything for the Oilers, if we are going to include Ethan Bear and Yamamoto then players like MAB and Cogliano get added in Lowe’s favor.

Gilbert legit had a couple of really good seasons for the Oilers and then regressed.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Nobody wants Evander Kane?

I don't give excuses for managers a lot but the team spend a long time drafting players and getting not much out of the draft. To that degree there could be some pressure from the org or even sensed from the fanbase that you have to hold onto something, somebody, from all those years to show something for top picks other than McDrai and Nuge. A lot of teams do those kind of contracts and may sense that the fanbase wants them to. Or that the STH want them to. For similar reason we retained Nuge instead of say going for a Danault or some other such player.

So that resigning established players is not necesarrily the worst evils of managers. I would say disposing of clear talent and getting very little if anything for it is far worse. Holland isn't the one that screwed the team. He's made mistakes, overpays, most managers do. The trouble for Holland is the capspace nightmare he was left with leaves for very little mistakes, and the slightest mistakes can end up looking severe.

I left Kane out because of his long term injury but he's on the list I mentioned. Nurse I'm on the fence about. I like him but I just don't think he's a bona fide 1D.

 

[MessierII]

Marino never did anything for the Oilers, if we are going to include Ethan Bear and Yamamoto then players like MAB and Cogliano get added in Lowe’s favor.

Gilbert legit had a couple of really good seasons for the Oilers and then regressed.

I mean your counting Glencross and his 13 career points as an oilers so yeah.

 

[Soundwave]

I mean your counting Glencross and his 13 career points as an oilers so yeah.

That trade almost pushed the Oilers into the playoffs though as he gave the team a big boost.

I’d trade all of Pulju, Foegele, and Yamamoto for that version of Glencross. It was a great find.

 

[MessierII]

That trade almost pushed the Oilers into the playoffs though as he gave the team a big boost.

I’d trade all of Pulju, Foegele, and Yamamoto for that version of Glencross. It was a great find.

Except it didn’t and in over a decade of Lowe’s tenure they made it how many times? What was the highest they finished in the standings?

 

[Soundwave]

Except it didn’t and in over a decade of Lowe’s tenure they made it how many times?

Lowe’s best player was Hemsky, Chia and Holland have McDavid and Draisaitl, I think Lowe does a better job if you give him the two best players in the world.

Like lets say Lowe on top of his own moves was gifted Crosby and Malkin also circa 2006 … more than likely he builds a team better than what Chia and Holland have.

 

[Stoneman89]

I mean when you compare GMs, excluding top 10 picks where they bombed a season (because no real mangerial skill is required to do that):

Impact Players Added

Lowe:

Pronger
Peca
Glencross
Torres
Hemsky (via draft)
Stoll (via draft)
Eberle (via draft)
Greene (via draft)
Souray
Penner
Visnovsky
Pitkanen
Samsonov
Gilbert
Staois
Roloson


Chiarelli:

Larsson
Letestu
Maroon
Sekera
Talbot

Holland:

Hyman
Kane
Ceci
Barrie
Smith

Certainly Lowe made a lot of mistakes too, but he was a far more active GM at bringing in players and a fair bit of talent even. If anything too the Oilers drafting post-Lowe is overrated too. Chiarelli and Holland are slow moving GMs that take way too long to bring in good players that make a nightly difference and don't draft well enough either. Where's a Stoll or Hemsky or Eberle tier find any of these guys can claim with a non top 10 pick?

A huge amount of those guys Lowe acquired were only here for a year (acquired due to that once in a lifetime cap dump), and it was a "magical year" propped up by a once in a lifetime goaltending performance by Roli.

As mentioned, Souray, Pitkanen and Vis were injured most of the time, Penner turned out to be an overpaid bust, other than part of one year, Staois was an average to mediocre dman playing way up the lineup due to nothing else at hand. Gilbert was mediocre at best.

For all of Hemsky's brilliance, he never scored more than 23 goals or 77 points as the best and most talented player on the team. For me, he will be most remembered for his exhillerating skates around the perimeter of the offensive zone 4-5 times per game, ultimately resulting either in losing the puck or failing to finish.

It doesn't look great right now, but Holland's story is yet to be finished.

 

[MessierII]

Lowe’s best player was Hemsky, Chia and Holland have McDavid and Draisaitl, I think Lowe does a better job if you give him the two best players in the world.

Like lets say Lowe on top of his own moves was gifted Crosby and Malkin also circa 2006 … more than likely he builds a team better than what Chia and Holland have.

Lowe’s best player was Hemsky because he had no idea how to draft or identify talent. Smyth was way better than Hemsky and helped mentor guys like Kopitar into champions. Lowe traded Smyth for what amounted to nothing.

 

[Soundwave]

A huge amount of those guys Lowe acquired were only here for a year, and it was a "magical year" propped up by a once in a lifetime goaltending performance by Roli.

As mentioned, Souray, Pitkanen and Vis were injured most of the time, Penner turned out to be an overpaid bust, other than part of one year, Staois was an average to mediocre dman playing way up the lineup due to nothing else at hand. Gilbert was mediocre at best.

For all of Hemsky's brilliance, he never scored more than 23 goals or 77 points as the best and most talented player on the team. For me, he will be most remembered for his exhillerating skates around the perimeter of the offensive zone 4-5 times per game, ultimately resulting either in losing the puck or failing to finish.

I don’t think Penner was a bust … he had some good seasons here and would look great on the current Oilers. The problem Lowe had was he was he didn’t have franchise superstars.

 

[bobbythebrain]

We could have made a game of it but Woody doesn't know how to pull a goaltender.

Don't you have to pull the goalie to get a Woody?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I mean when you compare GMs, excluding top 10 picks where they bombed a season (because no real mangerial skill is required to do that):

Impact Players Added

Lowe:

Pronger
Peca
Glencross
Torres
Hemsky (via draft)
Stoll (via draft)
Eberle (via draft)
Greene (via draft)
Souray
Penner
Visnovsky
Pitkanen
Samsonov
Gilbert
Staois
Roloson


Chiarelli:

Larsson
Letestu
Maroon
Sekera
Talbot

Holland:

Hyman
Kane
Ceci
Barrie
Smith

Certainly Lowe made a lot of mistakes too, but he was a far more active GM at bringing in players and a fair bit of talent even. If anything too the Oilers drafting post-Lowe is overrated too. Chiarelli and Holland are slow moving GMs that take way too long to bring in good players that make a nightly difference and don't draft well enough either. Where's a Stoll or Hemsky or Eberle tier find any of these guys can claim with a non top 10 pick?

Lowe sucked

took a perennial playoff team built by Sather and made the team worse each year
traded Pronger and Smyth for magic beans that started the decade of darkness
hired Tambo

 

[Stoneman89]

I don’t think Penner was a bust … he had some good seasons here and would look great on the current Oilers. The problem Lowe had was he was he didn’t have franchise superstars.

Not saying Holland has been aces here, but I'll give him a bit more time. And yes, Lowe didn't have the franchise superstars, but the Oilers round 1 drafting was not very good, even though it wasn't top 3 every year. Hemsky was the best of a bad to mediocre bunch.

Penner played well at times, but the Oilers really paid him (overpaid him) for his nice little run during the playoffs against them in their miracle year. And Lowes stubborness and selfish insistance to "get back" at Brian Burke.

 

[Soundwave]

Lowe sucked

took a perennial playoff team built by Sather and made the team worse each year
traded Pronger and Smyth for magic beans that started the decade of darkness
hired Tambo

They still made playoffs even after we had to sell off Weight, Lowe wasn’t the greatest but he’s better than Chia or Holland who make too few good moves way too slowly and draft poorly on top of that.

Not saying Holland has been aces here, but I'll give him a bit more time. And yes, Lowe didn't have the franchise superstars, but the Oilers round 1 drafting was not very good, even though it wasn't top 3 every year. Hemsky was the best of a bad to mediocre bunch.

Penner played well at times, but the Oilers really paid him (overpaid him) for his nice little run during the playoffs against them in their miracle year. And Lowes stubborness and selfish insistance to "get back" at Brian Burke.

Hemsky, Stoll, Eberle, Greene, Cogliano all drafted outside of the top 12. Who have Chiarelli or Holland found by comparison?

 

[MessierII]

Hemsky, Stoll, Eberle, Greene, Cogliano all drafted outside of the top 12. Who have Chiarelli or Holland found by comparison?

How many drafts did Lowe have? How many picks in that range?

 

[McShogun99]

On the bright side at least this year's big trade deadline acquisition will be Kane, just not the one from Chicago.

 

[Oilhawks]

The merits of Kevin Lowe as GM?

 

[Duke74]

Not sure why Woody insists on keeping them together. It was obvious RNH - McD - Hyman was working. Breaking them up was a head scratcher.

Maybe his reasoning was to give McD and Leon each one functional winger. Otherwise, Draisaitl is left with two broken wings and we all know how that goes.

Fair. I'm frustrated. I defended Leon from any and all criticism here for the last two years at least. But its at the point where I see some of it being warranted. Great player, but all great players have some flaws. for instance I don't think OV ever would have really known what he had to do to be a champion without Trotz around. I saw OV reborn with that. I don't think theres anybody strong enough in the org to confront Leon or shape him to be the 200ft player he can be. That aspect has really dropped off in his play. His usual ownzone play now is standing watching plays. Rather than so often him being a cycle stopper against opposition he's more content just to wait for somebody on the team to get puck now, or a GA. Which is happening a shitload.

Do you think his own zone commitment this season is just the same?

And that's always an uphill battle around these parts. You're right that something is off with Leon this year, but I don't think it's attitudinal. More a case of a lingering injury and/or a lack of proper offseason training. Hopefully, he's experiencing his December now and he'll start to heat up.

 

[LemmyUlanov55]

Only got to watch the highlights now, that was some rough shit, wow.
As much as I want Campbell to succeed in Edmonton, tonight the Oilers drowned in soup.

 

[frag2]

Maybe his reasoning was to give McD and Leon each one functional winger. Otherwise, Draisaitl is left with two broken wings and we all know how that goes.


And that's always an uphill battle around these parts. You're right that something is off with Leon this year, but I don't think it's attitudinal. More a case of a lingering injury and/or a lack of proper offseason training. Hopefully, he's experiencing his December now and he'll start to heat up.

I think its Leon being Leon. He seems so temperamental. You watch him play the last little bit and it's like he just doesn't care. No idea what's going on with the guy but he doesn't even bother stick checking players that are literally in front of him. That's not injury or training-his mind just isn't there it seems.

 

[Duke74]

I think it’s Leon being Leon. He seems so temperamental. You watch him play the last little bit and it's like he just doesn't care. No idea what's going on with the guy but he doesn't even bother stick checking players that are literally in front of him. That's not injury or training-his mind just isn't there it seems.

He seems to get into these annual funks, so maybe it’s come early this year, especially with the shit weather coming so quickly. Maybe he thought that after getting into the final four last year, everything would be easy and he’s realizing that teams are playing them harder. Or maybe he and Connor feel frustrated that as usual, they’re the only ones doing anything and he’s stopped trying to work hard. Regardless, I’m definitely getting 2017-18 vibes.

 

[RegDunlop]

Bob to Rob - name the defensemen that are playing up to their ability on the back end.

Rob - Tyson Barrie. That’s it. Bouchard isn’t even close. The puck is like a grenade on his stick in his own end. He’s also watching a lot. How many goals have gone in this year while Bouchard is standing there watching? You can’t do that.

Wish I could 'like' this more