Trading the Sabres 2024 1st for help now

[Chainshot]

Why not just wait for Torts to wear out his welcome in Philly? My guess is that it happens in the first half of next season at this rate.

One of the Toronto-based daily hockey shows was speculating last week that he might not be back behind the bench next season, instead moving up into a front office role there.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Yup, because what people on a messageboard say is gospel. Nobody ever gets traded, never try. You should do PR for Adams.

Ok, who do you think is available for a 1st?

 

[old kummelweck]

Bakes is correct, we are beyond time for this.

The problem is, having Adams and Co do this is akin to sending someone to the car dealer with a blank check who doesn't know how to drive. He'll be coming home with a 95k camry with a paint protection plan and an extended warranty.

I don't disagree. I also am having a hard to evaluating Bakes opinion about the GM and whether he's in any position to say it's time for a new GM, considering they throw him work from time to time. That said, he's been on the "WHL" flavor thing lately, and he is claiming that the Sabres (and Adam's) seem to moving the roster to that player type. Cozens, Joker, Krebs. He's traded for Byram and drafted Benson and Sovie, and moving away from USA hockey players. I'm kinda feelin that, so it gives me pause in my criticism a bit.

But as long as he thinks he's got the right coach, that is pretty much a vote of no confidence in the GM. So I'm with you that I am really concerned about the damage he can do by moving that pick.

 

[dortt]

I've been saying we should even trade 1 OA for a package that we really need.

I did say a hypothetical of a Peca, Warrener, and Varada-like package.

Seeing how the D is improved with the more up tempo style, maybe a physical puck mover is more what we need in the package (think a Zhitnik who actually can hit the side of a barn)

 

[5 Minute Major]

With Thompson and Cozens locked up long term, I doubt that Adams is looking to add a "legit top C" to this roster.

Plus, what "legit top C" is likely to be on the trade block this offseason?

I think that an upgrade over Krebs at 3C (Adams is rumored to have been interested in Boone Jenner and Noah Cates at the TDL) is much more likely to be a move that Adams is looking to make than someone that replaces Thompson or Cozens as the top 2 centers on this team.

Not a problem.

Trade out our #1 and a prospect in an effort to get a center that will push Cozens down to the 3rd line.

That is, of course, if one is available.

 

[Gras]

Not a problem.

Trade out our #1 and a prospect in an effort to get a center that will push Cozens down to the 3rd line.

That is, of course, if one is available.

Trade our 1st for Mitts.

 

[Tatanka]

Not a problem.

Trade out our #1 and a prospect in an effort to get a center that will push Cozens down to the 3rd line.

That is, of course, if one is available.

Cut to the chase trade Thompson for a real C. Cozens will stick somewhere

 

[Ace]

We have 2 good offensive centers.

What Dylan Cozens tape are you watching?

 

[Fjordy]

Easy trade

 

[Jim Bob]

Not a problem.

Trade out our #1 and a prospect in an effort to get a center that will push Cozens down to the 3rd line.

That is, of course, if one is available.

And there is the problem IF Adams views that as a path forward.

My guess is that Adams is way more focused on the bottom 6 centers than he is in trading for a center that pushes Cozens down the lineup.

 

[HolyGhost]

Unless you are getting a proven star or a younger player who is already getting 25 goals a year..You do not trade a top 10 pick. But as with anything, it will come down to the return you are getting. You are wanting either a top a legit 6 FW or top 4 Dman in return.

Unless you are getting a proven star or a younger player who is already getting 25 goals a year..You do not trade a top 10 pick. But as with anything, it will come down to the return you are getting. You are wanting either a top a legit 6 FW or top 4 Dman in return.

 

[old kummelweck]

Cut to the chase trade Thompson for a real C.

How is he not a real C? He's been producing at that position. Now, you can argue he's not your number 1, sure, or you could even argue to move him for a number 1. But $7m is a nice cap number for his skill set.

Am I frustrated with him this year? Yes. But the WHOLE GROUP is frustrating, and considering they all had very nice season the year before, I am inclined to point a finger at the coaching for where Thompson is production wise (and that goes for Cozens too).

This is maybe why you do not want to move on from the long-term contracts you started to hand out before you get a real coach.

Let's not forget 2022-23. I think you allow a redemption season in 24-25 or you will live to regret it. If he has another year like 23-24, it will not be hard to move him.

 

[Tatanka]

How is he not a real C? He's been producing at that position. Now, you can argue he's not your number 1, sure, or you could even argue to move him for a number 1. But $7m is a nice cap number for his skill set.

Am I frustrated with him this year? Yes. But the WHOLE GROUP is frustrating, and considering they all had very nice season the year before, I am inclined to point a finger at the coaching for where Thompson is production wise (and that goes for Cozens too).

This is maybe why you do not want to move on from the long-term contracts you started to hand out before you get a real coach.

Let's not forget 2022-23. I think you allow a redemption season in 24-25 or you will live to regret it. If he has another year like 23-24, it will not be hard to move him.

He was moved to C from the wing because he was ineffective in tight space. Granato said that. He doesn’t think like a center and provide the support a center needs to due to a lack of vision. He instinctively looks for his play first and not the play. He doesn’t make his linemates better. He is historically a 1/1 g to a player. Those are winger numbers. As long as he is here or Granato is coach, he will continue to be the focal point of a pp that doesn’t work and hasn’t since December 2022. He needs a map to find his own zone. He has tools but not the toolbox to play a top/2nd line C role. As far as value on the contract, I don’t look at it that way. If a 1 C costs 9m it is irrelevant that you have a guy at 7 that cannot give you what you need. Jmho.

 

[Chainshot]

Tage needs his Hecht to be the F3 to cover for him defensively. Right now that is sometimes Tuch and sometimes Greenway. He needs a Hecht.

 

[Jim Bob]

He was moved to C from the wing because he was ineffective in tight space. Granato said that. He doesn’t think like a center and provide the support a center needs to due to a lack of vision. He instinctively looks for his play first and not the play. He doesn’t make his linemates better. He is historically a 1/1 g to a player. Those are winger numbers. As long as he is here or Granato is coach, he will continue to be the focal point of a pp that doesn’t work and hasn’t since December 2022. He needs a map to find his own zone. He has tools but not the toolbox to play a top/2nd line C role. As far as value on the contract, I don’t look at it that way. If a 1 C costs 9m it is irrelevant that you have a guy at 7 that cannot give you what you need. Jmho.

Center A: 1.29:1 Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career
Center B: 1.07:1 Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career
Center C: 0.92:1 Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career

My guess is that if the Sabres traded for one of the two centers not named Tage Thompson in the above group of three, you would not want them moved to the wing because they are not elite playmakers by the measure of looking at the Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career.

The key is having the right wingers on a line with a center like Thompson and not playing Thompson on the wing, IMO.

Spoiler

A is Auston Matthews, B is Tage Thompson, and C is Brayden Point

 

[Tatanka]

Center A: 1.29:1 Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career
Center B: 1.07:1 Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career
Center C: 0.92:1 Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career

My guess is that if the Sabres traded for one of the two centers not named Tage Thompson in the above group of three, you would not want them moved to the wing because they are not elite playmakers by the measure of looking at the Goal to Assist ratio in his NHL career.

The key is having the right wingers on a line with a center like Thompson and not playing Thompson on the wing, IMO.

Spoiler

A is Auston Matthews, B is Tage Thompson, and C is Brayden Point

We can play the cherry pick game all day. He is not a top line center regardless of his wingers, because he only looks to use them after his solo efforts fail.

 

[old kummelweck]

He was moved to C from the wing because he was ineffective in tight space. Granato said that. He doesn’t think like a center and provide the support a center needs to due to a lack of vision. He instinctively looks for his play first and not the play. He doesn’t make his linemates better. He is historically a 1/1 g to a player. Those are winger numbers. As long as he is here or Granato is coach, he will continue to be the focal point of a pp that doesn’t work and hasn’t since December 2022. He needs a map to find his own zone. He has tools but not the toolbox to play a top/2nd line C role. As far as value on the contract, I don’t look at it that way. If a 1 C costs 9m it is irrelevant that you have a guy at 7 that cannot give you what you need. Jmho.

Granato has no clue and the fact he's still putting these evaluations into the players heads is a problem. Granato hit on something for a brief window, but the league adjusted and the coaching did not.

If it was one player that hit the skids, you could convince me it was Thompson. But what we are seeing is just a symptom of a larger issue, which is coaching and system first. Bring in a competent NHL coach and assistants, then you start to evaluate the roster composition and trade away assets.

Again, KB bringing up trading this pick? I would not do it unless there is a no-brainer move that immediately address the roster. They have room to do it without trading away what they have committed to: tage, cozense, etc. It's kind of like Baker/Fairburn is like "well, we are stuck with the coach, now what do we do?" mentality.

 

[Tatanka]

Granato has no clue and the fact he's still putting these evaluations into the players heads is a problem. Granato hit on something for a brief window, but the league adjusted and the coaching did not.

If it was one player that hit the skids, you could convince me it was Thompson. But what we are seeing is just a symptom of a larger issue, which is coaching and system first. Bring in a competent NHL coach and assistants, then you start to evaluate the roster composition and trade away assets.

Again, KB bringing up trading this pick? I would not do it unless there is a no-brainer move that immediately address the roster. They have room to do it without trading away what they have committed to: tage, cozense, etc. It's kind of like Baker/Fairburn is like "well, we are stuck with the coach, now what do we do?" mentality.

I agree Granato is lost on how to fix the pp. And I did not say Thompson was the only reason. But he is the crutch they still lean on. The structure and puck movement is still designed to feed the one timer. As long as that option is available to a coach with no other answer, he will continue to lean on it.

 

[Jim Bob]

Granato has no clue and the fact he's still putting these evaluations into the players heads is a problem. Granato hit on something for a brief window, but the league adjusted and the coaching did not.

If it was one player that hit the skids, you could convince me it was Thompson. But what we are seeing is just a symptom of a larger issue, which is coaching and system first. Bring in a competent NHL coach and assistants, then you start to evaluate the roster composition and trade away assets.

Again, KB bringing up trading this pick? I would not do it unless there is a no-brainer move that immediately address the roster. They have room to do it without trading away what they have committed to: tage, cozense, etc. It's kind of like Baker/Fairburn is like "well, we are stuck with the coach, now what do we do?" mentality.

That is not at all what I got when listening to their podcast the other day.

It was more like "we already have a prospect pipeline that is overflowing with players, so how about using some of those assets to make a trade to improve the NHL roster for next season rather than adding one more guy to the draft and develop pipeline who might help in 4 or 5 years?"

We can play the cherry pick game all day. He is not a top line center regardless of his wingers, because he only looks to use them after his solo efforts fail.

If you only want a pass-first type at center, then you have a very limited view on how to potentially put together lines and a roster that can be successful in the NHL. There are plenty of ways to build successful lines. Having a playmaking center is one way. But, it is not the only way, IMO.

 

[Tatanka]

That is not at all what I got when listening to their podcast the other day.

It was more like "we already have a prospect pipeline that is overflowing with players, so how about using some of those assets to make a trade to improve the NHL roster for next season rather than adding one more guy to the draft and develop pipeline who might help in 4 or 5 years?"


If you only want a pass-first type at center, then you have a very limited view on how to potentially put together lines and a roster that can be successful in the NHL. There are plenty of ways to build successful lines. Having a playmaking center is one way. But, it is not the only way, IMO.

I didn’t say anything about pass first or any other type of player. You did. I pointed out he lacks the IQ to support a top line through all 3 zones against the top competition. Granato doesn’t match him up against top Cs. He uses Cozens. Tage doesn’t win those match ups.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Has to happen. We held onto our cards last year and we got an absolute diamond in Benson. The now crown jewel of what was already supposedly the best prospect pool in the NHL.

No more prospects. Get help. Now.

 

[Jim Bob]

I didn’t say anything about pass first or any other type of player. You did. I pointed out he lacks the IQ to support a top line through all 3 zones against the top competition. Granato doesn’t match him up against top Cs. He uses Cozens. Tage doesn’t win those match ups.

Data shows that Granato does not really match forward lines at all.

Thompson and Cozens get pretty similar usage and Thompson has gotten the slightly tougher defensive assignments this season.

 

[Tatanka]

Data shows that Granato does not really match forward lines at all.

View attachment 843097

Thompson and Cozens get pretty similar usage and Thompson has gotten the slightly tougher defensive assignments this season.

McDavid, who was held without a point for just the ninth time this season. Power and Henri Jokiharju each skated 10-plus minutes against McDavid at 5-on-5 while Cozens was McDavid’s primary matchup at forward.

Seems Granato picks and chooses.

 

[dire wolf]

I'm all in favor of trading our 1st for some immediate help in theory. I'd even trade Celebrini as part of a package for an established star coming back. The problem is that I have no idea whether we could actually find worthy return in either scenario. Who do people see as being available for a realistic package? I don't think there are any legit top-6 centers available. Maybe a stud winger. More likely, we'd be looking at a Lawson Crouse-level player - which we could definitely use. I just don't think we're getting Kaprizov or Brady Tkachuk.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I'm all in favor of trading our 1st for some immediate help in theory. I'd even trade Celebrini as part of a package for an established star coming back. The problem is that I have no idea whether we could actually find worthy return in either scenario. Who do people see as being available for a realistic package? I don't think there are any legit top-6 centers available. Maybe a stud winger. More likely, we'd be looking at a Lawson Crouse-level player - which we could definitely use. I just don't think we're getting Kaprizov or Brady Tkachuk.

I’d be doing backflips if we got Crouse