Proposal: Trading Ehlers

[Mortimer Snerd]

Mort, I love Ehlers as much as the next guy... and I even bought his jersey this season, but I think you're way over-valuing him.

Not saying that I would swap him for Hanifin, but saying that Lindholm for Eherls isn't close in value is false.

Did I say it wasn't close? That might be putting it the wrong way. How about I reject it in a heartbeat?

Lindholm scored 20 pts last season, missing 16 games. He scored 28 the year before in a full season. Of course that is far from the full picture. I think they both affect the outcomes beyond their own scoring. I see Niko creating space for his teammates. I see him forcing opposing coaches to try to compensate for him which has a domino effect.

If last year turns out to be Niko's peak, or close to it then I would rate the value pretty close. I'm looking at his trajectory and assuming he still has a fair bit of improvement to come. I don't expect much more from Lindholm.

I think of the Jets with Lindholm and without Niko and they are just so much less entertaining that I don't even want to go there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

A player who can play on the 1st pairing, absolutely.
But none of Jones, Werenski, Provorov, Ristolainen, Rielly, Lindholm, Ekblad, Parayoko, would become available. Players that are in the Trouba range or share a similar ceiling.
Or Josi, Subban, Hedman, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Doughty, OEL from an older group.

Again the best hope is that Chevy manages to re-sign Trouba longterm this summer. But if he can't I wouldn't be looking at a forward return for Trouba. I'd look for the best D-man possible, even if it means NHL ready D-prospect. It's so damm difficult to win with a bad defense in the playoffs.

Also Hanifin is just 20 and looked a lot better when he got rid of the 3rd pair role. He would not be a + on a trade. He has elite #1D ceiling.

I think the bold is the real point.

Winning in the play-offs with a bad D? I'm not so sure that is correct. I guess a bad one yes. A mediocre one seems to be OK though. As has been mentioned quite a few times, Pens D is not great.

Yes, Hanifin is just 20 and still has a lot of potential. Maybe usage has depressed his performance. We've seen it affect Trouba. We've heard from Canes fans that he was better late in the season on the 2nd pair. I don't know if it was a lot better or not.

Whatever mitigation there might be the fact is that his offense has been good, not great and his defence has been terrible. His potential may still be very high but the probability of hitting it is not looking great. There is a reason that his is the only name mentioned by Canes fans as trade bait.

I'd love to get Hanifin but I wouldn't pay the same price as I would have a year or two ago. I wouldn't pay what it would probably take. I certainly wouldn't pay the kind of prices I see being floated around HF. Just my opinion but I think he is going to disappoint.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Refreshingly fair proposal, which would benefit both teams.
The general consensus depends on who you are asking.
Jets fans will understandably balk at trading a young star and one of their favourite players.
Ducks fans would say no, or ask for a significant add.
My guess is that objective experts would think it would favour Wpg because young #1D are such rare commodities.
Do I think Ehlers is great? Yup, a true budding star.
Would I do it anyway? Probably, and sadly, though I just can't imagine Ana ever parting with Lindholm.

But to even imagine getting a player like Lindholm, you have to imagine giving up one of your very best players in return.

Yeah, I have to agree with the bold. Just don't think it should be Ehlers though.

I don't think we have the need to part with him.

 

[SoCalJetsFan]

Refreshingly fair proposal, which would benefit both teams.
The general consensus depends on who you are asking.
Jets fans will understandably balk at trading a young star and one of their favourite players.
Ducks fans would say no, or ask for a significant add.
My guess is that objective experts would think it would favour Wpg because young #1D are such rare commodities.
Do I think Ehlers is great? Yup, a true budding star.
Would I do it anyway? Probably, and sadly, though I just can't imagine Ana ever parting with Lindholm.

But to even imagine getting a player like Lindholm, you have to imagine giving up one of your very best players in return.

IMO Lindholm might be the most untouchable player on the Ducks much like I believe Schife is on the Jets so i don't really think this is possible. Also would really hate to see Ehlers being Ehlers on some other team. I think he is going to be a sparkplug for the Jets for many years.

I really don't think the Jets need another #1 D-man unless it is absolutely clear Trouba wants out. A 3-4 LHD can hopefully be found at slightly lesser cost than Ehlers. I know they would not be cheap but think Ehlers is just too high price.

 

[ps241]

So then we have yet another D requiring protection. We are forced to sell low on Myers or lose him to VGK.

Even allowing for the value difference between a LW and a top 4 D I don't believe Lindholm is equal to Ehlers. Ehlers just scored 64 pts as a 20 YO. He is still on a steeply improving trajectory. IMO Ehlers will have far more impact on wins than Lindholm will.

I've been saying that Ehlers is untouchable and i really mean that. It would take a silly offer to get me to part with Ehlers. No one would pay what it would take.

Maybe that changes in another year or two but I want to see how good he can get before letting him go.

Good post and good debate, I love your passion for Nik and absolutely love Ehlers as well. I am looking forward to watching him for the next 10 years.

That being said I would trade him for Lindholm if it was 1 for 1 and I have a few reasons for that.

First and foremost we are only losing one player to the XD no matter what so even though Hampus adds to our list of protected players we are still exposing 1 player.

Secondly, it is an assumption we are selling low on Myers and for all we know his value will be maximum this off season.

Thirdly, if we land Lindholm it opens up all options with Jacob Trouba. Assuming we can sign JT we have our 1-2 punch for the next 6 seasons and we have a top pair you can win cups with. If we can't extend Trouba then we no longer have to trade him for his replacement because Hampus accomplishes that which opens up all sorts of options while solving our #1 young D man long term. Myers has two seasons left, Enstrom has one season left, Buff is aging. I have no issues with rebuilding our D core around Lindholm.

We could REALLY use an elite shot suppressor to play along side Dustin its your Birthday or anyone else on our D core.

 

[BB88]

I think the bold is the real point.

Winning in the play-offs with a bad D? I'm not so sure that is correct. I guess a bad one yes. A mediocre one seems to be OK though. As has been mentioned quite a few times, Pens D is not great.

Yes, Hanifin is just 20 and still has a lot of potential. Maybe usage has depressed his performance. We've seen it affect Trouba. We've heard from Canes fans that he was better late in the season on the 2nd pair. I don't know if it was a lot better or not.

Whatever mitigation there might be the fact is that his offense has been good, not great and his defence has been terrible. His potential may still be very high but the probability of hitting it is not looking great. There is a reason that his is the only name mentioned by Canes fans as trade bait.

I'd love to get Hanifin but I wouldn't pay the same price as I would have a year or two ago. I wouldn't pay what it would probably take. I certainly wouldn't pay the kind of prices I see being floated around HF. Just my opinion but I think he is going to disappoint.

Pens have prime Crosby, Malkin& Kessell to cover for that, with Murray, and they've been struggling without Letang.

Last year Pens had elite #1D, Chicago had elite top4, Nashville has the best top4 in the league, Anaheim has one of the deepest D-groups in the league, Ottawa has the best D-man in the league, Boston had prime Chara with TT in net, LA had Doughty.
Have to go 11 years back to see a team win without a killer D-man.

I'm not a fan of building Dallas star style from few years ago.

 

[DashingDane]

Pens have prime Crosby, Malkin& Kessell to cover for that, with Murray, and they've been struggling without Letang.

Last year Pens had elite #1D, Chicago had elite top4, Nashville has the best top4 in the league, Anaheim has one of the deepest D-groups in the league, Ottawa has the best D-man in the league, Boston had prime Chara with TT in net, LA had Doughty.
Have to go 11 years back to see a team win without a killer D-man.

I'm not a fan of building Dallas star style from few years ago.

I think there is a real possibility both Trouba and JoMo can become Elite D's which should be enough.

 

[MoreMorrissey]

I think there is a real possibility both Trouba and JoMo can become Elite D's which should be enough.

This. These 2 can become a very good complimentary pairing with an exceptional transition game. If Pittsburgh can get by with bums like Hainsey just blasting it out of the zone then a starting point of Jmo and Trouba isn't bad.

 

[SLAYER]

Did I say it wasn't close? That might be putting it the wrong way. How about I reject it in a heartbeat?

Lindholm scored 20 pts last season, missing 16 games. He scored 28 the year before in a full season. Of course that is far from the full picture. I think they both affect the outcomes beyond their own scoring. I see Niko creating space for his teammates. I see him forcing opposing coaches to try to compensate for him which has a domino effect.

If last year turns out to be Niko's peak, or close to it then I would rate the value pretty close. I'm looking at his trajectory and assuming he still has a fair bit of improvement to come. I don't expect much more from Lindholm.

I think of the Jets with Lindholm and without Niko and they are just so much less entertaining that I don't even want to go there.

Agreed, it's been a treat to watch our forward group, especially the kids. I was at the game last year vs ARZ for Ehler's hat trick. Was amazing.

 

[MoreMorrissey]

Agreed, it's been a treat to watch our forward group, especially the kids. I was at the game last year vs ARZ for Ehler's hat trick. Was amazing.

Same, that was one of the best games since relocation, Buff scored from half... Niki's first hatty... so great

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Good post and good debate, I love your passion for Nik and absolutely love Ehlers as well. I am looking forward to watching him for the next 10 years.

That being said I would trade him for Lindholm if it was 1 for 1 and I have a few reasons for that.

First and foremost we are only losing one player to the XD no matter what so even though Hampus adds to our list of protected players we are still exposing 1 player.

Secondly, it is an assumption we are selling low on Myers and for all we know his value will be maximum this off season.

Thirdly, if we land Lindholm it opens up all options with Jacob Trouba. Assuming we can sign JT we have our 1-2 punch for the next 6 seasons and we have a top pair you can win cups with. If we can't extend Trouba then we no longer have to trade him for his replacement because Hampus accomplishes that which opens up all sorts of options while solving our #1 young D man long term. Myers has two seasons left, Enstrom has one season left, Buff is aging. I have no issues with rebuilding our D core around Lindholm.

We could REALLY use an elite shot suppressor to play along side Dustin its your Birthday or anyone else on our D core.

Good points. You almost convince me. If Lindholm was available, even if it was only on condition that we overpay I would start offering pieces that would add up to a ****load before I would put Ehlers on the table.

There is no doubt that he would solve a lot of issues. But I'm still cautiously optimistic we can sign Trouba. JoMo - Trouba is a 1st pair we can win cups with. The rest needs some tinkering but nothing like trading Ehlers.

If Trouba won't stay then we need to trade him for D. Again, there would be some work left to be done but it shouldn't require Ehlers.

Pens have prime Crosby, Malkin& Kessell to cover for that, with Murray, and they've been struggling without Letang.

Last year Pens had elite #1D, Chicago had elite top4, Nashville has the best top4 in the league, Anaheim has one of the deepest D-groups in the league, Ottawa has the best D-man in the league, Boston had prime Chara with TT in net, LA had Doughty.
Have to go 11 years back to see a team win without a killer D-man.

I'm not a fan of building Dallas star style from few years ago.

I'm not following you. We don't have Letang, Keith, Chara, doughty, etc. We have Trouba - plus. Pens won last year with Letang and pretty mediocre behind him. We have a very strong forward corps. The only thing we are missing that those contenders have is goaltending and play-off experience.

We don't know how well our roster will perform in the play-offs but I like the look. Our roster is pretty well balanced and has elite talent at the top.

 

[10Ducky10]

Three young D men like Trouba, Lindholm and Morrissey makes the Jets stronger than Ehlers, Trouba and Morrissey.
Any GM in the league trades Ehlers for Lindholm.

 

[puck stoppa]

Three young D men like Trouba, Lindholm and Morrissey makes the Jets stronger than Ehlers, Trouba and Morrissey.
Any GM in the league trades Ehlers for Lindholm.

But the question is, would you rather have Werenski or Provorov for Ehlers? I think that trade would be even.

 

[ffh]

Three young D men like Trouba, Lindholm and Morrissey makes the Jets stronger than Ehlers, Trouba and Morrissey.
Any GM in the league trades Ehlers for Lindholm.

Any gm that doesn't have to worry about upsetting laine would think long and hard about it. Chevy's decision is easy.

 

[10Ducky10]

But the question is, would you rather have Werenski or Provorov for Ehlers? I think that trade would be even.

Lindholm
Provorov
Werenski

 

[SLAYER]

Same, that was one of the best games since relocation, Buff scored from half... Niki's first hatty... so great

Buff had a 2 goal game, and one of them was short-handed 5 on 3.

 

[EhlersPLDConnor]

I'd rather keep Ehlers. Him, Scheifele and Laine will be here for many years to come, and the Jets will be a UFA destination in a few years with those three leading the team. No need to trade for a young defenseman, but we do need to sign Trouba long term.

 

[Board Bard]

Three young D men like Trouba, Lindholm and Morrissey makes the Jets stronger than Ehlers, Trouba and Morrissey.

I disagree. Trouba and Morrissey potentially give the Jets #1 and #2 defenceman. They don't need Lindholm in that case. They need above-average #3-#6 d-men, two or three of which they already have, at least for the next couple of years.

Losing Ehlers loses a top-line player who creates a ton of dynamic offense and acres of space for himself and his teammates, and who doesn't seem to mind playing in Winnipeg (I doubt Lindholm would be as happy about that after his years in warm, sunny, always-in-the-playoffs Anaheim). Ehlers has a few things to work on (mainly simplifying some of the overly fancy stuff) but he's worth more to Winnipeg than Lindholm would be.

But whatever, it still comes down to goaltending. Without good goaltending the Jets are going nowhere (with coaching being next on that list of things to fix).

 

[puck stoppa]

Lindholm
Provorov
Werenski

For now.
Btw, keep ehlers. He's too good.

 

[BB88]

I think there is a real possibility both Trouba and JoMo can become Elite D's which should be enough.

Absolutely, with Morrissey I'm looking at a great #2D.

I'm not following you. We don't have Letang, Keith, Chara, doughty, etc. We have Trouba - plus. Pens won last year with Letang and pretty mediocre behind him. We have a very strong forward corps. The only thing we are missing that those contenders have is goaltending and play-off experience.

We don't know how well our roster will perform in the play-offs but I like the look. Our roster is pretty well balanced and has elite talent at the top.

Yes, Trouba is there now and as long as he is there I like the group and duo of Morrissey- Trouba. But lot of my talk has been what needs to happen if Chevy has to trade Trouba.
I'm still hoping they draft a D-prospect with the 13th to add quality depth.

 

[DashingDane]

Absolutely, with Morrissey I'm looking at a great #2D.



Yes, Trouba is there now and as long as he is there I like the group and duo of Morrissey- Trouba. But lot of my talk has been what needs to happen if Chevy has to trade Trouba.
I'm still hoping they draft a D-prospect with the 13th to add quality depth.

There is no question in my mind that if Trouba leaves something has to happen to fill that gap. Lindholm would be a great replacement without question. But I would question people that want to move out some of our best players on a hunch that Trouba wants out. He is still RFA and everything that allegedly caused him to want a trade (Right side and more minutes) was taken care of last season. I think the safer bet is to wait it out and if he still wants to leave you trade Trouba for a young promising defender+. I realize you won't get a player as good as Lindholm but I think you do everything in your power to keep the young Jets core together for as long as possible.

I totally get the people who would make a Lindholm/Ehlers trade though. I do think the Jets would have to throw in a slight add based off the Larsson/Hall trade...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Absolutely, with Morrissey I'm looking at a great #2D.



Yes, Trouba is there now and as long as he is there I like the group and duo of Morrissey- Trouba. But lot of my talk has been what needs to happen if Chevy has to trade Trouba.
I'm still hoping they draft a D-prospect with the 13th to add quality depth.

Sorry, didn't get that from that post.

If Trouba has to be traded then the return has to be D - one way or another. Not much chance of a 100% replacement but that can't be helped.

 

[Boreal]

As a general rule, I would keep Scheifele, Ehlers and Laine as untouchables (as untouchable as it gets in pro sports, I guess). That is our core of youth - it is proven, and they like to play together and here in Winnipeg.

If we're looking for D, I'd be more comfortable moving Connor + for whatever that nets.

 

[DashingDane]

As a general rule, I would keep Scheifele, Ehlers and Laine as untouchables (as untouchable as it gets in pro sports, I guess). That is our core of youth - it is proven, and they like to play together and here in Winnipeg.

If we're looking for D, I'd be more comfortable moving Connor + for whatever that nets.

I wholeheartedly believe this is the correct approach! I would add that moving Connor is premature IMO. I don't think you move high end talents before you know what you have. If we need D I would package up some of our depth forwards (Petan, Dano, Copp) and get a 2/3 pairing defender.

 

[Asiantuntija]

If we give Ehlers and Connor for Ristolainen?