Trades with unsuspected consequences

[De Montreal]

Had the Oilers kept David Perron back then, instead of getting a 1st round pick off the hands of the Penguins, would the Pens have drafted Mathew Barzal, which was later selected by the Islanders after being traded again by the Oilers? Knowing the Pens were/are kind of still looking for a 3rd line centre, it's not unrealistic to believe they would have selected Barzal. How good would they have been with him?

Had the Canucks traded Kesler to Chicago, instead of Anaheim - because Kesler gave a very short list of three teams he would have accepted to be traded - can Chicago win another Stanley Cup in 2016, instead of losing to the Blues in 7 games?

Any other exemples of traded like that, that could have taken a very different turn and had unexpected impact on other teams/players?

Click to read more...

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

If Iginla doesn't block the trade to the Bruins in 2013, they beat Chicago and win the Cup... giving Iginla the ring he desperately wanted and ironically chose Pittsburgh for.

As it was, the 2013 Finals were as close as you can get:

4-3 Hawks 3OT
2-1 Bruins OT
2-0 Bruins
6-5 Hawks OT
3-1 Hawks w/ an ENG
3-2 Hawks... ending well known

In a series that close and with the injuries the Bruins had up front, Iginla makes all the difference in the world. Simply swap Jagr out.

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Iginla

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

November 15, 2005: Traded to Anaheim by Columbus with Tyler Wright for Sergei Fedorov and Anaheim's 5th round pick (Maxime Frechette) in 2006 NHL Draft

^ françois beauchemin, i.e., who?

 

[Brodeur]

I always wondered about the butterfly effect of Ryan Smyth requesting a trade back to Edmonton prior to the 2011-12 season. If he had stayed with the Kings, they probably don't have the cap space to add Jeff Carter at the deadline.

And to branch that off, the original trade was Smyth for Gilbert Brule with LA's sole intention to buy him out. But Brule failed his physical, so the trade was reworked to be Colin Fraser instead. Fraser ended up scoring the first goal of Game 1 of the Cup Finals.

------------

Allegedly at the 2003 trade deadline, the Devils had a trade in place for Teemu Selanne, Marco Sturm, and Mike Ricci for Scott Gomez and Oleg Tverdovsky. But Selanne used his NTC to block the move. In a parallel world, maybe the Devils fail to find instant chemistry and don't end up winning the Cup?

The Devils rag tag bunch which won:

Elias-Gomez-Marshall
Friesen-Nieuwendyk/Rupp-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Gionta
Brylin-Rheaume-Stevenson

vs.

Sturm-Elias-Selanne
Friesen-Nieuwendyk-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Gionta
Brylin-Ricci-Stevenson/Marshall

Rupp was the unexpected SCF game 7 hero. He likely wouldn't have seen the ice after Nieuwendyk's injury. Ricci probably would have been bumped up and Rheaume would have taken the 4th line C. Grant Marshall also had some big moments in that run as an inexplicable top 6 forward. But in the world where Selanne agrees to come over, Marshall would have been a 4th liner perhaps even a healthy scratch.

 

[alko]

If you take the famous Lindros trade, you could spend months talking about What If?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

oh wait, i understand this thread now. here's one--

spring 2010

- malkin cheapshots/concusses willie mitchell, who is out for the year. the canucks need a defenseman going into the playoffs to complete their deepest, strongest team in 15 years.

2010 trade deadline

- against the urging of christian ehrhoff, who was paired with childhood friend dennis seidenberg at the 2010 olympics, the canucks don't acquire seidenberg from florida. this might have been the only time in history that the canucks chose not to make a trade with florida.

- instead they settle for the much cheaper and much much more pylonesque andrew alberts, traded to Vancouver by Carolina for Vancouver's 3rd round choice (Austin Levi) in 2010 Entry Draft.

- seidenberg traded to Boston by Florida with Matt Bartkowski for Byron Bitz, Craig Weller and Tampa Bay's 2nd round pick (previously acquired, Florida selected Alexander Petrovic) in 2010 NHL Draft. two future canucks in that trade, neither of them being seidenberg.

aftermath

- april 3, 2010: after putting up an impressive 9 points in 17 games after the trade, seidenberg accidentally gets his wrist slashed by nikolai kulemin's skate during a hit. he's out of the season. the bruins go on to get eliminated in the second round by philadelphia, during the infamous 3-0/3-4 series.

- may 11, 2010: the canucks also lose in the second round in six, to the blackhawks for the second year in a row. alberts averaged twelve and a half minutes during the playoffs. the blackhawks would go on to sweep san jose before beating philly in the finals, also in six games.

- june 5, 2010: the bruins re-sign seidenberg for four years at a $3.25 million cap hit.

- june 25, 2010: the canucks trade michael grabner, steve bernier, and a late first that would eventually become quinton howden to florida for keith ballard.

2011 regular season

- vigneault has some kind of blood feud with ballard, who was a proven top 4 defenseman, and is determined to destroy his confidence, succeeding in turning him from a decent two-way puck mover with good wheels and a big hipcheck to a poor man's wade redden after his mom died.

- best regular season in franchise history

2011 stanley cup finals

- don't ask


ALTERNATE REALITY

- canucks trade for seidenberg. they give up basically a lesser version of the ballard package, keeping grabner but outbid boston by trading bernier (a more proven version of bitz) and the late first round pick that became howden (slightly higher than the boston early second rounder, which became alex petrovic).

- rolling into the playoffs with seidenberg instead of alberts, edler/bieksa/ehrhoff pushed down to 3rd/4th/5th options on the PK respectively, the canucks don't get murdered by chicago's PP in games 3 and 4. 7uongo meltdown averted, they win the series, then roll past san jose (whom chicago swept and whom the canucks would likewise destroy in 2011), then beat philly in the finals.

- seidenberg wants to run it back and loves eating sauerkraut with ehrhoff, re-signs

- no ballard trade

- canucks roll into the playoffs with a defense of hamhuis/bieksa, seidenberg/ehrhoff, edler/salo

- boston rolls into the playoffs with chara paired with johnny boychuk, lose to the habs

- when injuries hit, they slot grabner into the lineup instead of jeff tambellini

- when things get rough oreskovich isn't around to be a total disgrace

- two cups, two years

 

[Moose Head]

Had Boston not traded Ken Dryden to the habs back in the 60’s, how many of those 70’s hab cups, become Bruin cups? Keep in mind, even if the Bruins never give him a shot, it keeps him off the habs.

Certainly 71. Any more?

 

[Brodeur]

What's An Iginla? Flames Know

Bob Gainey, Dallas coach and general manager, was upset about having to deal Iginla, but there wasn't much else Calgary wanted. Flames scouts said Iginla or center Todd Harvey had to be included in the deal.

I have heard a couple different variations: Either Calgary would have taken Harvey instead of Iginla, or Calgary preferred Harvey and settled for Iginla, or Dallas opted to keep Harvey over Iginla because Harvey was already contributing on their NHL roster.

But a fun what if for Dallas had they had Iginla to go along with their late 90s/early 00s clubs.

 

[tony d]

Ray Bourque got traded to Colorado in 2000 with them winning the Cup in 2001. Apparently Philly was his 1st choice. Imagine those Philly teams back then with a Cup hungry defenseman like Ray Bourque on the team.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I have heard a couple different variations: Either Calgary would have taken Harvey instead of Iginla, or Calgary preferred Harvey and settled for Iginla, or Dallas opted to keep Harvey over Iginla because Harvey was already contributing on their NHL roster.

But a fun what if for Dallas had they had Iginla to go along with their late 90s/early 00s clubs.

or would gainey have traded iggy to the rangers for more ringers?

March 24, 1998: Traded to NY Rangers by Dallas with Bob Errey and Dallas' 4th round choice (Boyd Kane) in 1998 Entry Draft for Brian Skrudland, Mike Keane and NY Rangers' 6th round choice (Pavel Patera) in 1998 Entry Draft.

unlikely given that iggy would have been coming off a 20 goal, calder runner-up rookie season. but he was sophomore slumping pretty bad, so you never know.

admittedly, in december of 1995 i would have preferred to keep harvey over iginla 100 times out of 100. all of the stuff that made iginla a can’t miss prospect happened shortly after the trade (dominating the wjc and establishing himself as the best player in canadian junior hockey), while harvey was the heart and soul captain and defensive conscience of the greatest wjc team of all time. think: mike richards coming out of the lockout, that was the young todd harvey. people were unironically calling him a bigger stronger bobby clarke.

 

[SabbathBloodySabbath]

Ray Bourque got traded to Colorado in 2000 with them winning the Cup in 2001. Apparently Philly was his 1st choice. Imagine those Philly teams back then with a Cup hungry defenseman like Ray Bourque on the team.

Boston wanted Simon Gagné back, and Philadelphia wouldn't do it. Not able to get a defenseman at the 2000 deadline, they traded Mikael Renberg for Rick Tocchet.

A year earlier, Chicago also asked for Gagné (and Daymond Langkow) when looking to trade Chelios. Philadelphia said no, and got Steve Duchesne from LA instead. Langkow was traded for a 1st and a 2nd a couple years later, one of which became Jeff Carter.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Interesting to reimagine the Rod Langway trade: what if the Habs braintrust recognizes Langway's value as the best defensive defenseman in the league & decide to accede to his salary demands, make him happy to stay in Montreal & make him the cornerstone of the franchise? The only way to meet Langway's salary & give him the space to be The Man is for the Habs to deal Larry Robinson.

Assuming the Capitals are still interested, what does a deal with Big Bird as the centrepiece look like? Here's the original deal:

Ryan Walter & Rick Green for Rod Langway, Brian Engblom, Doug Jarvis & Craig Laughlin

We know the Habs coveted Walter, & he was the player most valued in the deal at the time, so the trade centres around Robinson & Walter.
: as Engblom was Langway's regular partner & an All-Star in his own right, he stays in Montreal & gets promoted to #2 D
: Rick Green, the #1 overall pick in 1976, stays put in DC to pair up with Robinson
: to fill the gap on the power play, the Habs ask for gifted offensive D Darren Veitch (#5 overall 1980) to fill the gap left by Robinson
: in this scenario, Robinson is the most valued player, so instead of Montreal slightly overpaying, Washington slightly overpays

To Washington
Larry Robinson
Doug Jarvis

To Montreal
Ryan Walter
Darren Veitch

In this scenario:
: does Robinson have the same effect as Langway in DC of turning the franchise around, & does the hype instead lead to Robinson winning the Norris? Does a Norris run in the 80s vault Robinson to a top 5 D of all time? Do the Caps have a better chance at a Cup run with Robinson?
: with Langway being in the #1 slot with increased ice time & leadership responsibilities, do the Habs have a better shot at having a more stable team with a deeper playoff runs? Does the media get behind Langway in Montreal, can he win a Norris without necessarily leading them to a Cup? Do they still take the cup in 86?
: Does Veitch reach his potential in Montreal, or does he fizzle out & get dealt? Is he an upgrade on the PP over Robert Picard?

 

[Newsworthy]

If league rules Lindros to the Rangers I doubt Colorado easily wins the Cup.

 

[Newsworthy]

What if Hawks trade Belfour instead of Hasek?

 

[The Panther]

The Edmonton Oilers traded (sold) Wayne Gretzky in August, 1988. This had the unsuspected consequence of making the Oilers suck in the regular season for the next 29 years. It took that long for them to have another .600 season.

 

[Brodeur]

If league rules Lindros to the Rangers I doubt Colorado easily wins the Cup.

That Rangers offer was pretty good though.

July 1, 1992: The decision is that the Flyers and Nordiques shook hands on a deal for Lindros at 10:30 on June 20th and that was 80 minutes before the Rangers and Quebec came to their deal.
The Flyers traded Ron Hextall, Steve Duchene, Kerry Huffman, Peter Forsberg, Mike Ricci and $15 million to Quebec for Lindros.

The Rangers reported offer was John Vanbiesbrouck, Tony Amonte, Doug Weight, Alex Kovalev, $12 million and first round picks in 1993, 1994 and 1996. Had Vanbiesbrouck been declared a UFA, James Patrick would be substituted into the deal.

We'll never know how it would have played out. Amonte's agent let it be known that he might not report to Quebec if traded. Doug Weight wasn't as good as Forsberg, but he had a fine career. Getting a couple of wingers instead of Forsberg/Ricci maybe allows Quebec to keep Mats Sundin. They probably would have still needed to swap a forward for some D help eventually, but circa 1993 they could have had something like this up front (overload at RW):

Kamensky-Sakic-Nolan
Kovalenko-Sundin-Amonte
Kovalev-Weight-Young

They probably would have looked to do a winger for D trade even sooner before they did the Nolan/Ozolinsh swap.

 

[Plural]

If you take the famous Lindros trade, you could spend months talking about What If?

Paging @tarheelhockey

 

[Plural]

What if the Yotes had Selanne?

 

[ES]

As of now, we can say that Brian Dumoulin was the best piece Pens got when they traded Jordan Staal to Carolina.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

As of now, we can say that Brian Dumoulin was the best piece Pens got when they traded Jordan Staal to Carolina.

brandon sutter is admittedly terrible. but another way of looking at it is he gave the penguins a lot (or jim benning is... not smart).

after his career year, sutter was flipped for bonino, who not only was/is a better player than sutter and helped the pens to back-to-back cups but also was $1.4 million cheaper.

also included in that trade was a swap of pittsburgh's 2016 third round pick for vancouver's second in the same draft.

plus, the garbage prospect that came with sutter, adam clendenning, was flipped for david perron, who himself was later flipped for carl hagelin.

so if you're keeping score at home, pittsburgh ends up with 2/3 of its excellent third line, an upgrade from a 3rd round pick to a 2nd, and the 4th round pick that was packaged with ryan reaves to get brassard.

vancouver got sutter and pouliot, then gave them both raises.

 

[De Montreal]

oh wait, i understand this thread now. here's one--

spring 2010

- malkin cheapshots/concusses willie mitchell, who is out for the year. the canucks need a defenseman going into the playoffs to complete their deepest, strongest team in 15 years.

2010 trade deadline

- against the urging of christian ehrhoff, who was paired with childhood friend dennis seidenberg at the 2010 olympics, the canucks don't acquire seidenberg from florida. this might have been the only time in history that the canucks chose not to make a trade with florida.

- instead they settle for the much cheaper and much much more pylonesque andrew alberts, traded to Vancouver by Carolina for Vancouver's 3rd round choice (Austin Levi) in 2010 Entry Draft.

- seidenberg traded to Boston by Florida with Matt Bartkowski for Byron Bitz, Craig Weller and Tampa Bay's 2nd round pick (previously acquired, Florida selected Alexander Petrovic) in 2010 NHL Draft. two future canucks in that trade, neither of them being seidenberg.

aftermath

- april 3, 2010: after putting up an impressive 9 points in 17 games after the trade, seidenberg accidentally gets his wrist slashed by nikolai kulemin's skate during a hit. he's out of the season. the bruins go on to get eliminated in the second round by philadelphia, during the infamous 3-0/3-4 series.

- may 11, 2010: the canucks also lose in the second round in six, to the blackhawks for the second year in a row. alberts averaged twelve and a half minutes during the playoffs. the blackhawks would go on to sweep san jose before beating philly in the finals, also in six games.

- june 5, 2010: the bruins re-sign seidenberg for four years at a $3.25 million cap hit.

- june 25, 2010: the canucks trade michael grabner, steve bernier, and a late first that would eventually become quinton howden to florida for keith ballard.

2011 regular season

- vigneault has some kind of blood feud with ballard, who was a proven top 4 defenseman, and is determined to destroy his confidence, succeeding in turning him from a decent two-way puck mover with good wheels and a big hipcheck to a poor man's wade redden after his mom died.

- best regular season in franchise history

2011 stanley cup finals

- don't ask


ALTERNATE REALITY

- canucks trade for seidenberg. they give up basically a lesser version of the ballard package, keeping grabner but outbid boston by trading bernier (a more proven version of bitz) and the late first round pick that became howden (slightly higher than the boston early second rounder, which became alex petrovic).

- rolling into the playoffs with seidenberg instead of alberts, edler/bieksa/ehrhoff pushed down to 3rd/4th/5th options on the PK respectively, the canucks don't get murdered by chicago's PP in games 3 and 4. 7uongo meltdown averted, they win the series, then roll past san jose (whom chicago swept and whom the canucks would likewise destroy in 2011), then beat philly in the finals.

- seidenberg wants to run it back and loves eating sauerkraut with ehrhoff, re-signs

- no ballard trade

- canucks roll into the playoffs with a defense of hamhuis/bieksa, seidenberg/ehrhoff, edler/salo

- boston rolls into the playoffs with chara paired with johnny boychuk, lose to the habs

- when injuries hit, they slot grabner into the lineup instead of jeff tambellini

- when things get rough oreskovich isn't around to be a total disgrace

- two cups, two years

Really interesting one! Thanks for the share.

What about Ryan Kesler, now? He asked for a trade away from Vancouver to Anaheim or the Hawks. Canucks just came out of that Luongo fiasco, where they waited forever to trade him. So they decided to move away from any distraction and gave Kesler for a very small package, which was already highlighted in this thread. What, though, if Kesler is instead traded to Chicago? Chicago probably still win the Cup in 2015 with Kesler instead of Richards, but do they also win it in 2016? They lost to St-Louis in a 1 goal 7 game that year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

In 2017 if Tampa Bay does not trade Brian Boyle to Toronto do the Lighting make the playoffs instead of Toronto? Remember that Toronto got in to the 2nd Wild Card spot with 95 points and Tampa Bay finished with 94 points.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Really interesting one! Thanks for the share.

What about Ryan Kesler, now? He asked for a trade away from Vancouver to Anaheim or the Hawks. Canucks just came out of that Luongo fiasco, where they waited forever to trade him. So they decided to move away from any distraction and gave Kesler for a very small package, which was already highlighted in this thread. What, though, if Kesler is instead traded to Chicago? Chicago probably still win the Cup in 2015 with Kesler instead of Richards, but do they also win it in 2016? They lost to St-Louis in a 1 goal 7 game that year.

no thank you, i don't even want to entertain the possibility of kesler winning a cup with chicago.

but here's another one for you--

a few years ago, a former poster named jets alternate made this meticulously researched thread detailing a potential trade between boston and vancouver that pat quinn turned down.

i'll let anyone who's interested click on the thread for themselves to read the newspaper articles JA quoted, but basically the gist is this: in the summer of 1995, vancouver trades mike peca and a first round pick that became jay mckee for alex mogilny, reuniting him with his soviet linemate pavel bure. bure was injured for most of the '1995-96 season. meanwhile, mogilny had the second best year of his career, and had excellent chemistry with cliff ronning. then in the off-season, pat quinn let ronning walk because he was trying to sign gretzky (eventually coalescing in the infamous middle of the night ultimatum and gretzky hanging up the phone). also gone to free agency was the passive but talented josef beranek, who holds the distinction of being the only player to ever successfully center bure and mogilny in the NHL (in a four game run that ended when bure destroyed his knee, mogilny: 4 goals, 3 assists; beranek: 1 goal, 3 assists; bure: 2 goals, 4 assists; yes, mogilny played LW, bure played RW).

quinn ended up with neither ronning nor gretzky and at the beginning of the '97 season, with bure and mogilny both healthy, they had roll with linden (remember, linden was really a RW), a surprisingly okay mike ridley in his last season, and tikkanen (who played LW for the vast majority of his career) down the middle. the wing pairs were bure and gelinas, and mogilny with young markus naslund. also slotting in at center were journeyman mike sillinger and russ courtnall (also best at RW) playing out of position. to make matters worse, the previous year quinn had traded away mogilny and ronning's LW, roman oksiuta, for help at center (sillinger) and, well sillinger didn't help.

so mogilny is fed up. he calls out quinn and says something like, i hope they trade for a center and if they don't then i hope they trade me.

and so quinn knocks on boston's door because boston is purging salary and looking to rebuild. boston tells quinn the asking price for adam oates is linden, and quinn hangs up the phone because linden is his son.

the immediate aftermath: at the deadline, quinn tries to get mogilny his center one more time by sending tikkanen and courtnall to the rangers for sergei nemchinov and brian noonan, nemchinov being another band-aid in the vein of anatoli semenov (intended to be larionov's replacement) and alex semak. to be fair, nemchinov was actually pretty good, putting up five points in six games centering mogilny (3 goals, 3 assists) and naslund (3 goals, 2 assists), before signing with the islanders as a UFA in the offseason. in the off-season quinn signs his superstar center. ugh.

---

the eventual oates deal was

March 1, 1997: Traded to Washington by Boston with Bill Ranford and Rick Tocchet for Jim Carey, Anson Carter, Jason Allison and Washington's 3rd round choice (Lee Goren) in 1997 Entry Draft.

(OT but in the same week, doug gilmour was traded to new jersey for steve sullivan, jason smith, and alyn mccauley after he nixed a trade to vancouver for markus naslund)

the eventual linden deal, a year later, was

February 6, 1998: Traded to NY Islanders by Vancouver for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe and NY Islanders' 3rd round choice (Jarkko Ruutu) in 1998 Entry Draft.

mccabe was packaged with a first rounder (pavel vorobiev) for the pick that eventually became the pick that eventually became the pick that eventually became daniel sedin.

a broken down, emotionally crippled, and disgraced bertuzzi was eventually with bryan allen and spare parts for luongo and spare parts.

---

bertuzzi: 3rd and 4th in scoring, a 1st team all-star and almost certainly a 2nd that he was robbed of in '02 because they voted for him at two positions, 5th place hart finish

d sedin: an art ross and another year where he was 3rd in points/game, a 1st and 2nd team all-star, ted lindsay award and 2nd place hart finish

luongo: a year where he was 2nd for the vezina and hart.

that's five of the ten best canucks regular seasons of all time (with '94 bure, '02 naslund, '03 naslund, '10 henrik, '11 henrik)

---

so the what-ifs--

- did we miss some beautiful hockey between oates and mogilny, and (dare to dream) maybe even oates, mogilny, and bure?

but of course the bigger what-ifs radically change the entire course of canucks history--

- would oates being there mean they don't sign messier in the summer of 1997? (thanks, alex)

- what does canucks history look like without todd bertuzzi? what does markus naslund's career look like? and hell, how many big picture things about the game and the league are changed without the steve moore hit?

and maybe the biggest what-if--

- what do the sedins' careers look like if they're not on the same team?

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

If they don't sign Messier then where does he go. The only team that really pursued him big time in 97 was Vancouver. It was rumored Washington was giving him a good deal too but he didn't want to face the RANGERS 6 times a year.

So his 2 choices are to take the RANGERS low ball deal but be unhappy with how he was treated which could tarnish his legacy and maybe even make him retire early because he realizes he's not the same player he once was. However he'd still get those top line minutes and would still be the captain and go to guy. This in turn would revitalize Leetch,Graves , and Richter and instead of them having horrible seasons in 98 they all play like they previously had. With Gretzky still a top player at well maybe the RANGERS free fall doesn't occur.

His other choice is Detroit he'd be in the west but his role and minutes would be greatly diminished. I can only see him playing 3rd line minutes in Detroit and I can maybe see him getting some power play time. With Yzerman,Lidstrom,Shanahan , and Fedoriv all there his leadership qualities probably wouldn't be needed at all. The only time I see them leaning on him is during Fedorov's hold out. Now would this upset him because he's not needed for what he's known for? Or would it rejuvenate him knowing that the pressure is not on him like Gretzky the previous year. The positive out of all of this he would win another cup but it would be almost like the cups Brian Trottier won in Pittsburgh and maybe it tarnishes his championship leader type legacy a tiny bit.