Proposal: Trades & Tirades Thread no. 69

[Habs10Habs]

Don’t think it was a rush as much as it was Calgary meeting his price. That’s what it looked like to me but I could be wrong.

I think some posters are underestimating the fact that Hughes did not want to retain any salary on Toffoli. Sure we took back T.Pitlick, to make the trade easier for the Flames. His salary is off the books at the end of the year.

I haven't looked but I don't believe there are a lot of teams who could take on Toffoli, without us taking back a longer term cap dump.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think some posters are underestimating the fact that Hughes did not want to retain any salary on Toffoli. Sure we took back T.Pitlick, to make the trade easier for the Flames. His salary is off the books at the end of the year.

I haven't looked but I don't believe there are a lot of teams who could take on Toffoli, without us taking back a longer term cap dump.

In terms of the legit playoff teams and contenders, there are no many with cap space. This is why there has not been too much moves. Teams are delaying things as long as possible so they can accrue more cap space. They are also calling teams with cap space to see if they are interested in being a 3rd wheel (like the Wings with Savard last year).

Habs are in a very good spot with Chiarot. 50% retention = $1.75M and we can easily take back a contract that is expiring as well. Gorton/Hughes know the leverage we got and so do other teams.

 

[Vachon23]

I think some posters are underestimating the fact that Hughes did not want to retain any salary on Toffoli. Sure we took back T.Pitlick, to make the trade easier for the Flames. His salary is off the books at the end of the year.

I haven't looked but I don't believe there are a lot of teams who could take on Toffoli, without us taking back a longer term cap dump.

I would add that Calgary and Toffoli was so a perfect fit that I'm not sure they where an other team that was more interested in him then Calgary.

 

[Habs10Habs]

In terms of the legit playoff teams and contenders, there are no many with cap space. This is why there has not been too much moves. Teams are delaying things as long as possible so they can accrue more cap space. They are also calling teams with cap space to see if they are interested in being a 3rd wheel (like the Wings with Savard last year).

Habs are in a very good spot with Chiarot. 50% retention = $1.75M and we can easily take back a contract that is expiring as well. Gorton/Hughes know the leverage we got and so do other teams.

From what I've been reading. I honestly didn't think there were many competitive teams, who could do it. Agreed, we see this every year. Which is why I laugh when I see @sampollock plead that he wants to see a trade lol

Yes since Chariot will be a UFA, it is much easier to retain. Toffoli was a totally different situation as you know. Agreed again, which is why they are continuing to be patient.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Teams that need other teams help with the cap if they want to make moves at the deadline:
Tampa ($100k)
Blues ($113k)
Caps ($115k)
Hurricanes ($1.042M)
Oilers ($1.216M)
Stars ($1.658M)
Panthers ($2.920M)
Leafs ($3.669M)
Pens ($3.674M)

You better bet the buyers and sellers know the context leverage at play across the NHL. There is a lot of chatter going on for sure.

 

[webersshot]

Stephane Leroux actually lost his mind today. That front page article on rds wants me to f***ing puke pig guts.

1st 2022 for Lafrenière please someone tell me he's on some kind of heavy drugs

Depends where we're picking. I would not be throwing the towel in on laff at this time. MacKinnon put up just 53 points in his 4th year. If Lafreniere is available I want in. I doubt very much that he is though

 

[Habs10Habs]

I would add that Calgary and Toffoli was so a perfect fit that I'm not sure they where an other team that was more interested in him then Calgary.

Agreed, the positives I've read from his connection to Sutter, to his friendship to Lucic. Plus the need that Calgary had for a top 9 winger. Toffoli was probably one of their top trade choices.

 

[Habs Halifax]

From what I've been reading. I honestly didn't think there were many competitive teams, who could do it. Agreed, we see this every year. Which is why I laugh when I see @sampollock plead that he wants to see a trade lol

Yes since Chariot will be a UFA, it is much easier to retain. Toffoli was a totally different situation as you know. Agreed again, which is why they are continuing to be patient.

Agreed. Look at the cap space in post 1080

 

[Habs10Habs]

Agreed. Look at the cap space in post 1080

I just did, thank you for saving me the time to look it up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I just did, thank you for saving me the time to look it up.

It's fluid day/day cause some teams have LTIR contracts where they might come back or they might not. Most teams say 0 cap space in one column but in the other column, they show cap space due to the LTIR factor. Habs not rushing Price back is a good thing for many different reasons IMO.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

Toffoli (37 goals and 70 pts in 89 games)
View attachment 513629

Zucker (35 goals and 71 pts in 126 games)
View attachment 513630

Similar production when they were traded and way better production the season before for Toffoli (and 4.25M/year vs 5.5M/year)

Regarding this season, I've pointed out Toffoli's insane empty net production. 7 of his 26 points (37 games) were empty net points. Zucker, the season he was traded (19-20), had 29 in 45, with only 1 empty net point.

Toffoli's season, last year, was, by all account, a statistical anomaly. Never were we going to get value for what he was last year considering his unsustainable goal scoring prowess. I don't hold GMs in high esteem generally, but I assume GMs are smart enough to know that a guy shooting more than 50% higher than his career average in his late 20s is 99% not going to repeat. That's why you can't really compare Zucker's 18-19 season to Toffoli's 20-21.

 

[Runner77]

The timing of the assets matters too.

Toffoli scoring goals is great, but Montreal is out of the playoffs this year. And won't be contending for the Cup in the next 2 years.

The 1st will be ready sooner to join the contention window. Whereas Flames want to go for it, they are pushing their "potential 1st" if they flip Toff later down the road.

Montreal got an asset that will be ready for NHL action sooner by doing it. Flames pushed their asset hypothetically into the future for instant gratification.

I'm not saying there wasn't enough motivation to do the deal from a Habs' standpoint. I'm merely focusing on one aspect that I felt would have been a strong argument from the Habs' standpoint. There are other mitigating factors obviously and some that I'm not privy to, so I'm not trying to pretend that I know better or could have done better -- that's when I just have to trust the guys who handled it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Depends where we're picking. I would not be throwing the towel in on laff at this time. MacKinnon put up just 53 points in his 4th year. If Lafreniere is available I want in. I doubt very much that he is though

I might eat crow later but even if I get the #1 pick, I would trade that pick for Lafreniere 1/1.

The only way the Rangers trade Lafreniere is if they feel they address their center need. We are not trading Suzuki so the only thing we have to offer is our 2022 1st.

 

[Runner77]

Haaa the Bergevin disease has not left this forum yet. Analyzing trades as single events, instant gratification, instead of looking at the macro. I guess that’s what 10 years of reactionary trades do to a fan base.

True enough. Trades need to be looked at in a continuing from the perspective of implementing a chosen strategy.

 

[webersshot]

I might eat crow later but even if I get the #1 pick, I would trade that pick for Lafreniere 1/1.

The only way the Rangers trade Lafreniere is if they feel they address their center need. We are not trading Suzuki so the only thing we have to offer is our 2022 1st.

I wouldn't do it for 1st but I would for anything else. I think there's aw good a chance lag turns into a star as anything under Wright. Wright is safer than the others imo. He will be an extent player in the NHL. Lag his a bigger homerun swing but what hit it would be if he does come alive. MSL could do that for h, just like Caufield. Also the kid is still just 20.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wouldn't do it for 1st but I would for anything else. I think there's aw good a chance lag turns into a star as anything under Wright. Wright is safer than the others imo. He will be an extent player in the NHL. Lag his a bigger homerun swing but what hit it would be if he does come alive. MSL could do that for h, just like Caufield. Also the kid is still just 20.

You won't be a player at the trade table if you don't use our 1st in 2022. A 3 packaged deal won't get it done

 

[danyhabsfan]

Who is player 1 and who is player 2? We are board so lets play a guessing game. Stats from 19/20 to today

Player 1:
* 22:35 min/game
* 2:15 min/game on the PK
* 1:12 min/game on the PP
* 46-51% Corsi for with close to 50/50% Defensive and Offensive zone starts
* 49 pts with 9 goals in 113 games
* 1.9 hits/60
* 3.35 blocks/60
* 2.2 giveaways/60
* 1.10 takeaways/60

Player 2:
* 22:53 min/game
* 3:01 min/game on the PK
* 0:33 min/game on the PP
* 42-49% Corsi for with 57-66% Defensive and Offensive zone starts
* 44 pts with 17 goals in 161 games
* 5.45 hits/60
* 4.41 blocks/60
* 3.09 giveaways/60
* 0.70 takeaways/60

Lindholm (130 games not 113) and Chiarot

game over

 

[webersshot]

You won't be a player at the trade table if you don't use our 1st in 2022. A 3 packaged deal won't get it done

1st overall is what I meant, sorry. I would trade our 1st in 2022 provided it's not the Shane Wright pick.

 

[Habs Halifax]

1st overall is what I meant, sorry. I would trade our 1st in 2022 provided it's not the Shane Wright pick.

Got yeah. Personally, like I said, I might eat crow for this later but I would trade Wright for Lafrenierre.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Got yeah. Personally, like I said, I might eat crow for this later but I would trade Wright for Lafrenierre.

Pretty hot take , don't agree but I respect it . Laffy def has a more offensive skillset

 

[japhi]

Would rather have a player who's great in all of his contract years but his last rather than a multitude of bad ones that are terrible from day 1.

Rads is terrible this year, was injured last year, and was crappy 2 years ago. He had two good years there.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Pretty hot take , don't agree but I respect it

That's why I put the "I might eat crow later" in the context

 

[webersshot]

Floated the idea on the Rangers board and one fan seemed to find it palatable another said only if it was first overall and only if we include next year's first unprotected lol

 

[Vachon23]

Q and A: Canadiens GM Hughes on trade deadline, St. Louis, Price and more - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Wats]

Got yeah. Personally, like I said, I might eat crow for this later but I would trade Wright for Lafrenierre.

I don't agree. Cap wise, the perfect scenario would be drafting Wright, sending him back to OHL for one more year since he lost an year from pandemic, then having him start in NHL in 23/24.
This will time Wright's ELC with Weber/Price's contracts ending. Don't think Wright is getting a fair shot by lot of people. He's safe bet to at least be a 2nd line 2way C.

Hopefully JT Miller gets moved soon to Rangers competition and Meier re-signs long term so Montreal can try to leverage Anderson/Lehkonen/Chiarot to Rangers and try to get Lafreniere that way. They did trade Buchnevich for Blais+2nd... hopefully they see their spot in standing, see that Fox extension next year and try to win now.