TBN: Trade window closed at the moment with Miller, Vanek

[joshjull]

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres...sed-at-moment-with-miller-vanek.html?ref=bipn

The expiring contracts of Miller and Vanek remain in the spotlight. There have been no talks of extensions. More significantly, there have been no trade talks. Regier says that's the state of the NHL trade window.

"It’s closed right now," the GM said. "Once you get through the unrestricted market, there’s a little bit of a secondary market. Then as you tail off in July, the lines go dead. The league, for whatever reason, really goes quiet.

"As you approach training camp, teams for the most part look at their young players, look at their own group and, like us, are trying to figure out who’s going to play, who’s going to fit, where are they going to fit, what will the needs be. Then the season begins and talks start again. In most cases, not a lot happens until you get closer to the trade deadline, where it ramps up again.

"There’s a business that goes on that most people don’t know about or hear about, and there’s a lot of speculation and rumors out there of things that may or may not have happened. We’re approaching it from the standpoint of Ryan’s here, Thomas is here, they’re both in the last year of their deals like a lot of other players in the National Hockey League, and they’re ready to go to work."

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[Myllz]

I don't really expect anything to happen with either one until the trade deadline. My guess is Vanek gets moved and Miller walks after the season after Regier can't find a place to send him.

 

[haseoke39]

I don't really expect anything to happen with either one until the trade deadline. My guess is Vanek gets moved and Miller walks after the season after Regier can't find a place to send him.

I figure this, too. It's really a worst case scenario from a team-building perspective, but I'm resigned to it now.

 

[EspenK]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/11/report-sabres-willing-to-retain-part-of-vaneks-salary-in-trade/related/

Seems to indicate a bit otherwise. Would love to have him come to Columbus. Having him, Gaborik & Horton would definitely help a previously moribund offense.

Question is what does it take to get him?. I'd guess at the beginning of the season a bit more than at the deadline.

I'm not really familiar with what Buffalo needs or what Columbus would be willing to give up.

Off the top of my head Foligno and a defenseman plus maybe a pick and Buffalo eats 3-4 mill. Don't want to be ridiculous here, but if he is walking next year Buffalo is probably going to have to take less than if he had 3 yrs remaining.

Thoughts?

 

[Myllz]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/11/report-sabres-willing-to-retain-part-of-vaneks-salary-in-trade/related/

Seems to indicate a bit otherwise. Would love to have him come to Columbus. Having him, Gaborik & Horton would definitely help a previously moribund offense.

Question is what does it take to get him?. I'd guess at the beginning of the season a bit more than at the deadline.

I'm not really familiar with what Buffalo needs or what Columbus would be willing to give up.

Off the top of my head Foligno and a defenseman plus maybe a pick and Buffalo eats 3-4 mill. Don't want to be ridiculous here, but if he is walking next year Buffalo is probably going to have to take less than if he had 3 yrs remaining.

Thoughts?

Not really. The Sabres being willing to eat part of his salary in order to move him and the trade market being dead around the league right now don't have anything to do with each other.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/11/report-sabres-willing-to-retain-part-of-vaneks-salary-in-trade/related/

Seems to indicate a bit otherwise. Would love to have him come to Columbus. Having him, Gaborik & Horton would definitely help a previously moribund offense.

Question is what does it take to get him?. I'd guess at the beginning of the season a bit more than at the deadline.

I'm not really familiar with what Buffalo needs or what Columbus would be willing to give up.

Off the top of my head Foligno and a defenseman plus maybe a pick and Buffalo eats 3-4 mill. Don't want to be ridiculous here, but if he is walking next year Buffalo is probably going to have to take less than if he had 3 yrs remaining.

Thoughts?

dear god please no more defenders. Let's talk something in a shade of right wing prospects, Bjorkstand/Zaar/Audy-Marchessault.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I find myself feeling quite ambivalent about Miller being here for the bulk, if not all of the season. This is an Olympic year and Miller is highly likely to lose out the starting position to Jonathon Quick. I can't help but feel like there is a good chance that Miller will turn it on this year and return to (close to) 2010 form. That would be exciting and it would give the sabres a chance to be competitive. However, if we are in danger of losing Miller to FA for nothing, i'd rather finish low and get a top 5 pick for 2014 (to at least soothe the pain of losing an asset).

Then again, he could just fail to deliver (by his own short comings, or a young and inexperienced Defense in front of him), miss the starting position on the Team USA roster, decimate his trade value, and walk for nothing (which would be slightly less than the peanuts we would get at the deadline).

It's a tough call....

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I have kept quiet on this topic since it began to heat up last past season. My gut feeling on this has always been that DR doesn't want to trade either of them.

And likely, has placed a high value on both that no one will likely meet or cross that threshold.

I've also had the "feeling" (via interpretation and qualitative assessment of what's been said and indicated.....I know this is hard for all you quantitative guys out there to give any credence to ) that both players have taken a wait and see attitude towards the 2013-14 edition of the Sabres. Neither has really indicated they absolutely want out. Both seem to like the city, the fans, the coach and the organization. TV has made it clear that he's going to enjoy the situation he is in with being able to flex his options but includes staying with the team as one of the outcomes.

So, I've held back and deliberately not speculated on what the return would be for either vis a vis the rebuild. Mainly, because I think DR is engaged in more of a remodel (including some structural changes) than a full rebuild. He's got a core of guys he wants to hang on to and I think Miller and Vanek are the main two.

Who knows? I could wake up tomorrow and read that both are gone but I suspect that if the team does well...better than expected out of the gate and looks like its only a season away from the playoffs, both players will be willing to sign extensions (or possibly, new deals).

I can't see DR letting either walk away for no return. He'll work something out (but may have to devalue his assets). But unless the 1st 3 months of this season are a complete disaster, I think(i.e.; speculating) both guys could stay with the team longer term.

 

[haseoke39]

Then again, he could just fail to deliver (by his own short comings, or a young and inexperienced Defense in front of him), miss the starting position on the Team USA roster, decimate his trade value, and walk for nothing (which would be slightly less than the peanuts we would get at the deadline).

This, with like 95% odds.

 

[joshjull]

I have kept quiet on this topic since it began to heat up last past season. My gut feeling on this has always been that DR doesn't want to trade either of them.

And likely, has placed a high value on both that no one will likely meet or cross that threshold.

I've also had the "feeling" (via interpretation and qualitative assessment of what's been said and indicated.....I know this is hard for all you quantitative guys out there to give any credence to ) that both players have taken a wait and see attitude towards the 2013-14 edition of the Sabres. Neither has really indicated they absolutely want out. Both seem to like the city, the fans, the coach and the organization. TV has made it clear that he's going to enjoy the situation he is in with being able to flex his options but includes staying with the team as one of the outcomes.

So, I've held back and deliberately not speculated on what the return would be for either vis a vis the rebuild. Mainly, because I think DR is engaged in more of a remodel (including some structural changes) than a full rebuild. He's got a core of guys he wants to hang on to and I think Miller and Vanek are the main two.

Who knows? I could wake up tomorrow and read that both are gone but I suspect that if the team does well...better than expected out of the gate and looks like its only a season away from the playoffs, both players will be willing to sign extensions (or possibly, new deals).

I can't see DR letting either walk away for no return. He'll work something out (but may have to devalue his assets). But unless the 1st 3 months of this season are a complete disaster, I think(i.e.; speculating) both guys could stay with the team longer term.

This is my take on things as well.

 

[joshjull]

This, with like 95% odds.

Hardly but with your incredibly bleak view of our players this is not surprising.

 

[haseoke39]

Hardly but with your incredibly bleak view of our players this is not surprising.

It's not really all that hard to anticipate. He just needs to continue his career trend, and the defense needs to play about like people have predicted it will. A GAA over 3.00 isn't out of the question at all.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I have kept quiet on this topic since it began to heat up last past season. My gut feeling on this has always been that DR doesn't want to trade either of them.

And likely, has placed a high value on both that no one will likely meet or cross that threshold.

I've also had the "feeling" (via interpretation and qualitative assessment of what's been said and indicated.....I know this is hard for all you quantitative guys out there to give any credence to ) that both players have taken a wait and see attitude towards the 2013-14 edition of the Sabres. Neither has really indicated they absolutely want out. Both seem to like the city, the fans, the coach and the organization. TV has made it clear that he's going to enjoy the situation he is in with being able to flex his options but includes staying with the team as one of the outcomes.

So, I've held back and deliberately not speculated on what the return would be for either vis a vis the rebuild. Mainly, because I think DR is engaged in more of a remodel (including some structural changes) than a full rebuild. He's got a core of guys he wants to hang on to and I think Miller and Vanek are the main two.

Who knows? I could wake up tomorrow and read that both are gone but I suspect that if the team does well...better than expected out of the gate and looks like its only a season away from the playoffs, both players will be willing to sign extensions (or possibly, new deals).

I can't see DR letting either walk away for no return. He'll work something out (but may have to devalue his assets). But unless the 1st 3 months of this season are a complete disaster, I think(i.e.; speculating) both guys could stay with the team longer term.

I think this is an outcome that a lot of fans are silently hoping for, but no one is expecting. If this were the case, is it reasonable to think that Miller and Vanek would sign a short term contract in case things go south again? I guess it's too early to make any sort of speculation there.


On a separate note, if it came down to keeping any one of the two, i'd take TV. Maybe DR wants to keep both as the core for a remodel, but goaltending is definitely something he is preparing to shake up (hence bringing in Hackett).

Speaking of Hackett, does anyone have a sense of his ceiling? Is he going to be groomed as the starter at some point? Surely it's not Enroth's position to take?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

This is my take on things as well.

I think it's probably the most reasonable line of thinking. What I'm most curious about is what defines a "good enough start". Do they need an Anaheim run the table start or just able to cling to a playoff spot. Or can they lose a bunch but have Grigs put up PPG with Vanek wearing a C. I'd like to know what I'm cheering for.

 

[haseoke39]

I'd like to know what I'm cheering for.

I think this about sums up the entire "rebuild."

 

[joshjull]

I think this is an outcome that a lot of fans are silently hoping for, but no one is expecting. If this were the case, is it reasonable to think that Miller and Vanek would sign a short term contract in case things go south again? I guess it's too early to make any sort of speculation there.


On a separate note, if it came down to keeping any one of the two, i'd take TV. Maybe DR wants to keep both as the core for a remodel, but goaltending is definitely something he is preparing to shake up (hence bringing in Hackett).

Speaking of Hackett, does anyone have a sense of his ceiling? Is he going to be groomed as the starter at some point? Surely it's not Enroth's position to take?

Why would they do that when they can make a lot of money in free agency? Vanek in particular is young enough to get a max deal of 7 years in free agency (its 8 years if re-signing your own players).

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I think this is an outcome that a lot of fans are silently hoping for, but no one is expecting. If this were the case, is it reasonable to think that Miller and Vanek would sign a short term contract in case things go south again? I guess it's too early to make any sort of speculation there.


On a separate note, if it came down to keeping any one of the two, i'd take TV. Maybe DR wants to keep both as the core for a remodel, but goaltending is definitely something he is preparing to shake up (hence bringing in Hackett).

Speaking of Hackett, does anyone have a sense of his ceiling? Is he going to be groomed as the starter at some point? Surely it's not Enroth's position to take?

The fun thing about speculating on HF Boards is that you can do it at anytime and if you are wrong, you can just say.... I was just speculating.

I will admit I have that same bias as you've noted above. But each day seems to move the fulcrum of change further away from the center of the balance beam.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I think it's probably the most reasonable line of thinking. What I'm most curious about is what defines a "good enough start". Do they need an Anaheim run the table start or just able to cling to a playoff spot. Or can they lose a bunch but have Grigs put up PPG with Vanek wearing a C. I'd like to know what I'm cheering for.

A .500 start after 20 games would exceed most peoples expectations.

the word seems to be that we will be terrible..... not sure I agree with that... but my blue and gold underware is showing

 

[joshjull]

It's not really all that hard to anticipate. He just needs to continue his career trend, and the defense needs to play about like people have predicted it will. A GAA over 3.00 isn't out of the question at all.

Who would that be? The same geniuses that are "shocked" Myers isn't paired with Tallinder?

You have this incredibly simplistic way of evaluating things. Never any nuance or greater understanding of things. Just these handful of players left so we will be bad. Its such a flawed way of evaluating things.

The defense as a unit as well as the team defense will likely be better than they were last year for a variety of reasons. I'm not going to bother laying them out since you really don't care. For you Leo, Reger and Sekera are gone so we will be bad, end of analysis.

 

[haseoke39]

Who would that be? The same geniuses that are "shocked" Myers isn't paired with Tallinder?

You have this incredibly simplistic way of evaluating things. Never any nuance or greater understanding of things. Just these handful of players left so we will be bad. Its such a flawed way of evaluating things.

The defense as a unit as well as the team defense will likely be better than they were last year for a variety of reasons. I'm not going to bother laying them out since you really don't care. For you Leo, Reger and Sekera are gone so we will be bad, end of analysis.

Always lecturing me about these nuances that you never provide.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Wow... the 1st 20 games don't appear to have many easy W's in them.........

October 2013


Wed Oct 2, 2013 Sabres Red Wings 8:00 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Fri Oct 4, 2013 Senators Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 5, 2013 Sabres Penguins 7:00 PM MSG-B
Tue Oct 8, 2013 Lightning Sabres 7:30 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Thu Oct 10, 2013 Blue Jackets Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 12, 2013 Sabres Blackhawks 8:00 PM NHLN-US, MSG-B
Mon Oct 14, 2013 Wild Sabres 7:30 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Tue Oct 15, 2013 Sabres Islanders 7:00 PM MSG-B
Thu Oct 17, 2013 Canucks Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 19, 2013 Avalanche Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Wed Oct 23, 2013 Bruins Sabres 8:00 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Fri Oct 25, 2013 Sabres Panthers 7:30 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 26, 2013 Sabres Lightning 7:00 PM MSG-B
Mon Oct 28, 2013 Stars Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Thu Oct 31, 2013 Sabres Rangers 7:00 PM NHLN-CA, MSG-B

November 2013

Sat Nov 2, 2013 Ducks Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Tue Nov 5, 2013 Sabres Sharks 10:30 PM MSG-B
Thu Nov 7, 2013 Sabres Kings 10:30 PM MSG-B
Fri Nov 8, 2013 Sabres Ducks 10:00 PM MSG-B
Tue Nov 12, 2013 Kings Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B

 

[haseoke39]

Wow... the 1st 20 games don't appear to have any easy W's in them.........

October 2013


Wed Oct 2, 2013 Sabres Red Wings 8:00 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Fri Oct 4, 2013 Senators Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 5, 2013 Sabres Penguins 7:00 PM MSG-B
Tue Oct 8, 2013 Lightning Sabres 7:30 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Thu Oct 10, 2013 Blue Jackets Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 12, 2013 Sabres Blackhawks 8:00 PM NHLN-US, MSG-B
Mon Oct 14, 2013 Wild Sabres 7:30 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Tue Oct 15, 2013 Sabres Islanders 7:00 PM MSG-B
Thu Oct 17, 2013 Canucks Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 19, 2013 Avalanche Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Wed Oct 23, 2013 Bruins Sabres 8:00 PM TSN2, NBCSN
Fri Oct 25, 2013 Sabres Panthers 7:30 PM MSG-B
Sat Oct 26, 2013 Sabres Lightning 7:00 PM MSG-B
Mon Oct 28, 2013 Stars Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Thu Oct 31, 2013 Sabres Rangers 7:00 PM NHLN-CA, MSG-B

November 2013

Sat Nov 2, 2013 Ducks Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B
Tue Nov 5, 2013 Sabres Sharks 10:30 PM MSG-B
Thu Nov 7, 2013 Sabres Kings 10:30 PM MSG-B
Fri Nov 8, 2013 Sabres Ducks 10:00 PM MSG-B
Tue Nov 12, 2013 Kings Sabres 7:00 PM MSG-B

Avalanche, Panthers, Blue Jackets, Lightning, Islanders?

I agree that there are no easy wins for this team, but it's because of this team, not who we're playing.

 

[joshjull]

Always lecturing me about these nuances that you never provide.

I did provide them in a previous thread and you threw up your hands and said you quit.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Why would they do that when they can make a lot of money in free agency? Vanek in particular is young enough to get a max deal of 7 years in free agency (its 8 years if re-signing your own players).

The mythical hometown discount? A desire to stick around and see the Sabres succeed? Blue and Gold really makes their eyes pop?

I am not deluding myself into thinking that they will take some low-ball, two year contract. The reality is that if the team some how manages to be competitive sooner than a rebuild typically takes, the team will have to be superbly amazing in order to attract Vanek and Miller back, imo. As it stands, i don't really want Miller to stick around. Dude has gas in the tank, still, but i want to see a youth movement in goal to match the tone of the rebuild. I am all for keeping TV, though, and would love to see him stick around.

 

[Jame]

Wow... the 1st 20 games don't appear to have many easy W's in them.........

there are no easy wins for the Sabres this year...