Speculation: Trade Values

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

Starting this thread because I am curious.

I have been reading here and there that the Tampa Bay Lightning are looking for a top nine forward.
Yzerman has been connected with various teams (most recently Winnipeg) with regards to "looking at players".
How much truth there is to any of this, I don't know.

But, I was thinking...the Philadelphia Flyers are trying to rebuild and always in search of younger players as any players they have closer to 30 years of age or older simply won't be as useful to them once their young core fully develops.

I have also heard here and there that, for the right price, the Flyers may move a guy like Wayne Simmonds.
Now, I have had a bit of discussion with Flyers fans regarding a Simmonds to TB trade.
Flyers fans, for the most part, think EVERY ONE of their players is worth a first round pick, a top prospect or three, AND a current top roster player.

Now, granted, Simmonds is a valuable player, but want to know, from the Tampa Bay side fanbase, what do you think would be a fair trade for him?
All speculation here, mind you. Not at all saying this is imminent or that the Bolts SHOULD trade with Philly for him, but if they WERE to do that, what do you guys think would be fair to both sides?

This was my proposal, which Flyer fans found "horrible".
Maybe, maybe not...but I am considering the source.

LW/RW Wayne Simmonds + Philly's 3rd Rounder in 2018

for

LW Ondrej Palat + Andrej Sustr + TB's 2nd rounder in 2018

One could also possibly substitute Tyler Johnson instead of Palat, leaving all other pieces the same.

Keep in mind, TB has TWO 2nd rounders...their own, and the Capitals' 2nd rounder that was obtained from Montreal (whom the Habs obtained in some earlier deal)...that 2nd rounder being the 'conditional' depending on whether Sergachev plays 40 games or not.

Andrej Sustr is now a spare defenseman and soon to be UFA. He would still be a decent bottom pair guy for a team....just not for TB any longer due to how deep the defense core has gotten.

Ondrej Palat.
Love the guy, but he has yet to find the same chemistry with teammates ever since the Triplets were broken up.
I find him to be comparable to Simmonds in both style of play and production, with Simmer being a bit better goal scorer, but Palat being better as a two way forward AND with better passing and puck handling skills.
But both hit, both play fast, and both are not afraid to go into the 'dirty areas' of the ice.


Is the above a 'fair deal' for both sides for Simmonds?
Is it not enough? Is it a laughable deal from either side?

What does the TB fanbase think?
Again, purely speculative and for curiosity sake.​

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[The Macho King]

No.

Stop.

 

[Werewolf]

Simmonds would not be a good fit on this team. Our PFs are highly mobile, two-way players. Simmonds does not fit the mold at all. Flyers are a one line team ... not much I'd be willing to pick off from that forward group besides the notable players on the top line.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Palat is younger by 3ish years (haven't looked at BDs). I would not be thrilled with this trade.

 

[xteesy]

I simply don't want Wayne Simmonds on this team. He doesn't represent our organization well, at all. I doubt Vinik would approve the trade, even if Yzerman tried to convince him otherwise.

Besides that, he's not even remotely a good fit for our team from a skill standpoint. We play an incredibly fast game. Our "slowest" power forward is still considered fast on other teams (Killorn) and half this board bitches the poor guy out most of the time because of how irrelevant he looks on the ice.

To quote Macho Man. "No. Stop."


Edit: If you want to give the flyers Sustr for a pick (any pick), be my guest. That's the only part of this trade negotiation that sounds appealing.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

I don't not want him on the team, personally, but there are other guys I'd be interested in looking at before Wayne Simmonds.

 

[Crunchrulz]

I am a bit concerned why you folks think Simmonds would not represent the team well? He is a legit power forward at the NHL level who can score, is not afraid to go into corners, sticks up for his teammates, and has leadership abilities. Given the lack of development of players such as Erne who were supposed to be the Tampa Bay Power Forward of the future, Simmonds would seem like a no brainer add for just about any NHL organization let alone the Lightning. Definitely a deal I would look to complete if the price is right.

 

[Sky04]

I am a bit concerned why you folks think Simmonds would not represent the team well? He is a legit power forward at the NHL level who can score, is not afraid to go into corners, sticks up for his teammates, and has leadership abilities. Given the lack of development of players such as Erne who were supposed to be the Tampa Bay Power Forward of the future, Simmonds would seem like a no brainer add for just about any NHL organization let alone the Lightning. Definitely a deal I would look to complete if the price is right.

I agree, not sure why or if peoples perception of Simmonds detracts from how well he's produced over the past 6 years in the NHL, his only negative is that he takes a lot of penalties. He's a power forward who plays smart, he uses his size to protect the puck but doesn't play a deteriorating physical game (Callahan), he's averaged 30 goals per season over the past 6 years, is a right handed shot right winger and has broken 60 points twice over the past 4 years. His main centers have been Lecavalier, Schenn and Couturier - the guy generates a lot himself, oh and he makes less than Alex Killorn at 3.95m for only 2 more years.

He'd be an excellent addition but we don't have the assets to get him, we wouldn't give up Palat - I would trade Johnson but the whole point of getting a 3RW is to play with Johnson....

 

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

SMH at people thinking Simmonds is "slow", wouldn't fit in, and is a penalty taking goon.

The guys is fast enough....faster than more than a few current TB skaters....plays a goon-free game (for the most part...but it IS in his nature to not put up with crap and to defend teammates), and he isn't this bulky, plodding bottom six exclusive player.

The guy is tall at 6'1 or 6'2, but he is UNDER 200 pounds of well conditioned, mobile athlete.
His cap hit is a reasonable 3.9M for a guy who consistently gives you 30'ish goals a year and 50-60 points.

Now, I am not arguing we SHOULD go ahead and trade away Palat, Johnson, or anyone else to get him, but was trying to gauge more or less what it would take, and if TB fans (at least here) would think it would be too much, too little, etc.

Flyer fans overvalue him, Bolts fans seem to be UNDER valuing him.
That's what I've picked up so far.

But you know, Simmonds IS a viable top 9 guy.
If you have a go-to top six, then he can help make your third line a scoring threat....something I believe the Lightning like to have anyways...3 real scoring lines.
But if need be, the guy can slot in as a 2nd line winger and be able to keep up with a transition and speed game just fine.

 

[Bolt 45]

Please. Simmonds isn't slow, but he's not fast either. Go fishing out west, you're more likely to get some bites.

I'd gladly sign Simmonds as a free agent, but I'd never trade away any of the guys that Philly'd want in return.

No.

Once more: NO.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Doesn't simmonds have an expiring contract? Also not convinced he is better than Palat.

We could shoot a lot lower than Wayne to find a 3rw. I'm looking at Sven Andrighetto out in Colorado.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Doesn't simmonds have an expiring contract? Also not convinced he is better than Palat.

We could shoot a lot lower than Wayne to find a 3rw. I'm looking at Sven Andrighetto out in Colorado.

One more year after this one, $3.975M cap hit. Salary 4.75M this year, 5.00M next year.

 

[waterboy65]

If the Bolts have a need for another top 9 forward then why would they trade one of their current top forwards (either Palat or TJ) for Simmonds?? Makes no sense whatsoever! The only deal I can see Bolts making would be to trade one of our excess Dman (Sustr-Koekook) and probably some combination of a prospect and draft picks. No need to make trade now but after Jan 1 when it becomes apparent that some teams are going to be out of playoff hunt, you should be able to find a 3rd line winger without giving up the farm!

 

[Heldig]

Interest in Rieder from the Coyotes? Pretty decent guy for 3rd line RW. He was very trusted by Tippett to play a checking role. Good PK guy. Great speed. Not much scoring touch (though TB does not really need more scoring).

 

[Crunchrulz]

The reason you make the trade is while there are several potential Johnson/Palat players currently on the Syracuse roster, there is no one who even closely plays the Simmonds style of hockey.

 

[Jacko95]

Our system is working and we have proven that we don't need a true powerforward to go deep in the playoffs before. It would be the dumbest idea ever to trade our 2nd line LW for a RW we don't really need.

If we can get a 3rd line RW without giving up any regular (outside the 4th line) I am in on the deal. If we need one of our top8 (Johnson, Killorn or the top6) I want nothing to do with a deal right now.

Especially since nobody can guarantee that Simmonds would be as successfull here in TB, while we know exactly what we get in Palat.

Rieder on the other side would be an interesting addition for a pick/prospect. I could see him score 40-50 points in Tampa and would give us enough depth to step up in the top6 if Gourde or Kucherov go down.

Maybe something around a 1st plus Sustr for him?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Interest in Rieder from the Coyotes? Pretty decent guy for 3rd line RW. He was very trusted by Tippett to play a checking role. Good PK guy. Great speed. Not much scoring touch (though TB does not really need more scoring).

sure, whats the asking price?

 

[JAY7791]

I think he would be a great fit honestly. He is pretty quick and his size/speed would really help us. He can finish and his contract is friendly too. If you move Sustr's 2 mill this year and then Kunitz's 2 mill in the summer; a long with other expiring contracts its enough to fit him in next year and then worry about Vlady's deal.

Vladdy-Stammer-Kuch
Palat-Point-Gourde/Simmonds
Killorn-Johnson-Simmonds/Gourde
Kunitz-Paquette-Cally

Another thing to note is, Yzerman has said before he doesn't like trading for rentals, so another year on an affordable contract is another thing in favour.

 

[Heldig]

sure, whats the asking price?

I would hate to come to your board and make an insulting/stupid offer. Can TB take on Rieders' salary in such a trade or does the money need to balance out? What prospects/young players are potentially available?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I would hate to come to your board and make an insulting/stupid offer. Can TB take on Rieders' salary in such a trade or does the money need to balance out? What prospects/young players are potentially available?

We would likely have to give back a bit of salary, eg Sustr. I'm not sure what prospects would be available. I doubt we would be able to move someone who is in the NHL now.

 

[JoVel]

What's usually the value of guys like Rieder? Any examples of trades?

 

[HoseEmDown]

I would hate to come to your board and make an insulting/stupid offer. Can TB take on Rieders' salary in such a trade or does the money need to balance out? What prospects/young players are potentially available?

Money needs to balance but Reider doesn't make a lot so wouldn't be too hard to do. It's hard to tell what you guys would want in return since I don't know what direction your going. You have rebuilt and then made moves to make the playoffs which backfired and with a strong pipeline do you want futures?

Money wise Sustr would make that work, also allows you to send Mermis back down, then trade Schenn at the deadline for some picks or Sustr if someone wants him too. Would prefer to do a lesser prospect like Spencer + pick, 3rd maybe but that offer isn't impressive Sustr + Spencer + 3rd. Would do Dennis Yan but he's a LW which you are strong on. Reider being a RFA has more value than that but I don't think we should give up a better prospect for a 3RW who'll probably get 3.5 on his next deal.

 

[Heldig]

Your assessment is spot on and I think the Coyotes are mostly in recovery mode at the moment. They have to get NHL ready players back (and admitedly there are prospects that cant crack the TB lineup that can play top 9 F / top 4 D on the Coyotes). I would prefer Koekoek over Sustr. Among the second tier of prospects I would be interested in Cirelli or Stephens among several others (assuming Raddysh, Howden, Foote, and Hajek are not likely to be traded for a 3rd liner?).

 

[Crunchrulz]

Cant see the Bolts shopping either Cirelli or Stephens at this point. Erne is a much stronger candidate for trade bait along with Sustr and Brown. Bolts would have to start with a package centered around Erne and either of the other two and work from there.

 

[Stammertime91]

Simmonds would probably be an improvement over Palat in scoring but I look forward to that line of Palat - Point - Gourde stepping on the ice each night to shutdown opponents top lines as much as I look forward to seeing the top line in the offensive zone. I'm not sure Simmonds can replace the defensive abilities of Palat. Sure he brings a little difference in style bit he's older and will be looking at a healthy raise soon. Not to mention moving a top 6 guy for a top 6 guy is a lateral move. If this was next year and it was for Johnson with maybe Howden or somebody coming up I'd entertain it, but not now. It's not a necessity.