Speculation: Trade Rumors & Roster Building Thread: Part XXVII: Jeff Gorton: A Troubaliever?

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Sounds more like the bad guy in a Japanese anime than a hockey GM.

Yes lmao

 

[Idlerlee]

I wish there was a way to do a 3way with Zuccarello going to Anaheim, Fowler to Winnipeg and Trouba here. This way we get a young asset for a 29 year old. Would harm us this year, but would be terrific long term.

Is age the only paramter for a trade nowdays?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Is age the only paramter for a trade nowdays?

When a team actively trying to get younger, it's kind of important.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

So true Mac n Gus
"There's No Escape, for The Hairless Ape!"
None whatsoever...
Wrote & performed this song 20 years ago. Father Time is a Merciless SOB

Awesome! Thanks for sharing, man!

(Although, you like Hemingway? UGH.)

 

[Mac n Gs]

"Goeton"? How do you get that? Even TRYING to type it on purpose spell check corrected it back to Gorton.

Sounds more like the bad guy in a Japanese anime than a hockey GM.

Using this site on mobile is a ***** sometimes

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Team's got a real tough three game stretch coming up. All at home, but Tampa, St. Louis, and Edmonton (can't believe I'm typing that, but it's true) is rough. Will give Gorton a good pulse on what this team can do against some real threats all back to back.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Is age the only paramter for a trade nowdays?

Maybe we can trade for Etem? He is only 24.

Fast is only 24 as well. We better hold on to him.

The NYR management wants to win. Age is far from their only parameter. If age was everything Dylan would not have just been waived and our defense would not have Girardi/Klein playing top 4 minutes. Most teams would like to be young within reason but winning is the only real goal. That is why the Penguins did not think twice about trading for Kessel (29) and Hagelin (28). Nobody gives an award to the youngest team at the end of the season. We did not trade for Messier till he was around 31.

 

[Ghost of jas]

When a team actively trying to get younger, it's kind of important.

There's also the idea of using an area of strength (forwards) to fix an area of weakenss (any Dman not named McDonagh).

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Is age the only paramter for a trade nowdays?

Do you have an app or something that alerts you every time someone suggests that they trade Zucc?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

My sister just handed me 5 random hockey stickers

One of them was a Trouba sticker

#itsasign

 

[NickyFotiu]

My sister just handed me 5 random hockey stickers

One of them was a Trouba sticker

#itsasign

LOL I just realized I'm old.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

LOL I just realized I'm old.

Took you that long?

 

[BBKers]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing, man!

(Although, you like Hemingway? UGH.)

For a number of years I actually in a narcissistic way thought I was Hemingway. That bad actually. Tried the Charles Bukowski thing too. Not healthy. And then there was The Lizard King decade. Oh Boy

 

[NickyFotiu]

Took you that long?

Well I get confused because I still skate circles around a bunch of 20 year olds so I assume I must still be in my 20's as well.

 

[Idlerlee]

Do you have an app or something that alerts you every time someone suggests that they trade Zucc?

Yes, dont trade my spirit animal :<

But I do feel like I have a point though, of the 2 "expected" trade alterantives, Miller is by far the weaker player, and Zucc doesnt really have to regress for quite a few years yet.

So if the parameter is to "become younger", when becoming younger also means becoming worse than trading the younger guy for the next few seasons, theres no actual point in doing it.

Team NA in the world cup got all the love for being young and speedy, and were quickly sent home because they werent good enough to beat teams of experienced slower relics.

If the team expects to compete within the next 1-3 years, you trade the worst pieces you can get away with, not the best.

Age genuinely isnt everything, I rather have a mix of experienced NHLers and young players, rather than a team where being over 27 is considered an aging veteran.

The Rangers are alreay the 8th youngest team with an avg age of 26.88.

 

[Beacon]

Is age the only paramter for a trade nowdays?

You need to give to get. You can wait and then trade a guy in his prime whose value will start to decline in a year or two as he goes over the big 3-0 and his underpaid contract comes to an end, or you can trade him right now at the peak of his value in terms of on-ice production and contract.

Alternatively, you can give up Skjei and Miller, but that will open up a long-term hole in 2 spots (W and LD) to plug it in another (RD). Who exactly do we have to replace Miller? Our best forward prospect not presently in the NHL is Nieves. Then you have Kovacs, Stromwall, Rambo, Jensen, Hrivik. Which of these do you think will be a quality top-6 forward on par with Miller? Probably none of them. None will be as good as MZA either, but he's older and if we trade Miller, in 3 years, we'll have neither Miller nor MZA, who will be a UFA by then, so he'll either be gone or grossly overpaid. We can always sign a 32-year-old UFA if we want to spend the money, but acquiring a cost-controlled top-6 forward in his prime will not be easy and will cost some other assets.

That's why long-term it makes a lot more sense to trade MZA than Miller or Kreider. That's why it was also a good idea to move Brass for Mika.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You need to give to get. You can wait and then trade a guy in his prime whose value will start to decline in a year or two as he goes over the big 3-0 and his underpaid contract comes to an end, or you can trade him right now at the peak of his value in terms of on-ice production and contract.

Alternatively, you can give up Skjei and Miller, but that will open up a long-term hole in 2 spots (W and LD) to plug it in another (RD). Who exactly do we have to replace Miller? Our best forward prospect not presently in the NHL is Nieves. Then you have Kovacs, Stromwall, Rambo, Jensen, Hrivik. Which of these do you think will be a quality top-6 forward on par with Miller? Probably none of them. None will be as good as MZA either, but he's older and if we trade Miller, in 3 years, we'll have neither Miller nor MZA, who will be a UFA by then, so he'll either be gone or grossly overpaid. We can always sign a 32-year-old UFA if we want to spend the money, but acquiring a cost-controlled top-6 forward in his prime will not be easy and will cost some other assets.

That's why long-term it makes a lot more sense to trade MZA than Miller or Kreider. That's why it was also a good idea to move Brass for Mika.

1. Have the Jets said anything other than they want a young LH Dman in return?

2. If trading a 29 year old (Zooks) for a 22 year old (Trouba) is the smart way to go than why would the Jets trade a 22 year old for a 29 year old. Are the Jets dumb?

 

[broadwayblue]

1. Have the Jets said anything other than they want a young LH Dman in return?

2. If trading a 29 year old (Zooks) for a 22 year old (Trouba) is the smart way to go than why would the Jets trade a 22 year old for a 29 year old. Are the Jets dumb?

Jets are not in the driver's seat as they have a player who would rather sit than play for them. Sure, they don't have to do anything, but how is that going to help their team? Obviously they could look to trade Trouba for another 22 or so year old, but until someone makes them that kind of offer they may be forced to move him at a discount. Also, the Jets like other teams, have to worry about how many dmen they can protect in the upcoming expansion draft. That may further increase their urgency to make a deal at some point.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Jets are not in the driver's seat as they have a player who would rather sit than play for them. Sure, they don't have to do anything, but how is that going to help their team? Obviously they could look to trade Trouba for another 22 or so year old, but until someone makes them that kind of offer they may be forced to move him at a discount. Also, the Jets like other teams, have to worry about how many dmen they can protect in the upcoming expansion draft.

The Jets may not be in the drivers seat but they are far from desperate. This has been going on for a long time in some ways. They are not panicking. There are 29 teams they could potentially deal with not just us. They are also still talking with Trouba. They could also deal Myers.

 

[broadwayblue]

The Jets may not be in the drivers seat but they are far from desperate. This has been going on for a long time in some ways. They are not panicking. There are 29 teams they could potentially deal with not just us. They are also still talking with Trouba. They could also deal Myers.

Hey, I'm not suggesting they have to trade him tomorrow or next month. Just that what is a given is that the true value of a player drops by some amount once this kind of situation exists. And what are the odds that they will deal a different dman to placate Trouba? They could, but most teams likely wouldn't, particularly after he's decided to hold out. Organizations don't typically like to reward players who give them the middle finger.

 

[mti79]

On another note, Holy Moses what a boring life sobriety and the health conscious lifestyle is. I understand the benefits but it is not meant for me I guess. Been on this wagon road for 6 months now since my heart & lung surgeries and I wish this emptiness for nobody... Struggling with the allure of sin and plurging constantly

It can be hard. I went 6 months sober a while back to prove that I could. I was indulging a bit too much at the time and it was affecting my life. Now I'm much more responsible about it.

That's the thing... if you never know you will never miss it. The only people I know who've stayed truly sober are the ones that have never really indulged in it to begin with.

To me though it serves far too many useful purposes, so I will continue drinking. I do wish I didn't ever have to rely on it, but it is what it is I guess. It makes the harsh realities of life a little more foggy and bearable

This doesn't sound great..... you ok man?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Hey, I'm not suggesting they have to trade him tomorrow or next month. Just that what is a given is that the true value of a player drops by some amount once this kind of situation exists. And what are the odds that they will deal a different dman to placate Trouba? They could, but most teams likely wouldn't, particularly after he's decided to hold out. Organizations don't typically like to reward players who give them the middle finger.

Things like a trade opening a spot happen in many sports but the bigger point is there are 29 potential trade spots. We are not the only one. The Jets need LH defense just like we need RH defense. If the Rangers were going to trade Zooks for Trouba and the Jets were going to trade Trouba for Zooks it would have likely happened already. Neither team would gain anything by waiting on that deal. A handful of posters on this board are trying to force a square peg in a round hole. The Jets want a young LH defensemen. Zooks is not that.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

A trade situation like that narrows itself down. Hypothetically, yes, there are 29 teams to trade Trouba to. It doesn't work that way in reality, though. Some teams don't need him. Some teams can't afford him. Some teams don't have the assets. Some teams are in their division, making them a non-viable option.

Very, very few teams A) have the assets to trade B) are willing to trade these assets C) have the cap space to sign Trouba and D) is a place where Trouba is willing to play. Trouba doesn't have a contract right now, so it's not as if he can be forced to play for a team he doesn't want to play for, like he's doing right now.

There are no LH Trouba equivalents available out there. The Rangers are the only team that checks off all those boxes. Not to say a team like Boston or Detroit don't have a chance, but it's a much slimmer chance than the Rangers.

 

[NickyFotiu]

A trade situation like that narrows itself down. Hypothetically, yes, there are 29 teams to trade Trouba to. It doesn't work that way in reality, though. Some teams don't need him. Some teams can't afford him. Some teams don't have the assets. Some teams are in their division, making them a non-viable option.

Very, very few teams A) have the assets to trade B) are willing to trade these assets C) have the cap space to sign Trouba and D) is a place where Trouba is willing to play. Trouba doesn't have a contract right now, so it's not as if he can be forced to play for a team he doesn't want to play for, like he's doing right now.

There are no LH Trouba equivalents available out there. The Rangers are the only team that checks off all those boxes. Not to say a team like Boston or Detroit don't have a chance, but it's a much slimmer chance than the Rangers.

The Jets are not anywhere close to thinking the Rangers are the only team to make a deal with. Not by a long shot in my opinion. A handful of posters on HF want to make this Zooks for Trouba but its unlikely either the Rangers or the Jets have been talking in those terms. The Jets have flat out said they want a young LH Dman. If somebody flat out tells us they want a 2014 pick up truck we can not show up with a 2007 two seat convertible and say we are the only ones that can make a deal.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Trouba will be traded - I firmly believe and have heard from a good source. Boston (firstly) and Detroit as I understand it are also both in the mix. Arizona and Denver as well. It is (as always) a question of what assets they will pony up. I do think we have a good chance. I stick out my head and say we are the favourite as it stands right now. And for every day that goes the cap implications for NYR get more complicated whilst Chevy is a more patient guy. I would think Winnipeg going on a losing streak asap would be very welcome. Time is a factor here.

On another note, Holy Moses what a boring life sobriety and the health conscious lifestyle is. I understand the benefits but it is not meant for me I guess. Been on this wagon road for 6 months now since my heart & lung surgeries and I wish this emptiness for nobody... Struggling with the allure of sin and plurging constantly

I once went something like 10 months without drinking. It was awful but the ironic thing was that when I started drinking again I barely drank. I drink a lot less than I used to. Also for some reason it takes a lot longer for me to feel the effects since that period. So there's almost no point.