Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 17)

[Knave]

For a team that traded 3 mega superstar players and had a bunch of draft picks this year, their rating should be better. Also, if we are going to put stock in these type of reports, which we should, then why is it ok to discount mock drafts and draft rankings when it fits the narrative of our scouting staff/management knowing more than the people who create such reports?

I haven't looked at his rankings before but I'd imagine it's top prospect heavy and well... Dorion traded away our lottery pick for worse draft picks and we didn't draft to the consensus. Also many of our prospects played in the NHL to good or mediocre success and might not count anymore.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah this is pretty much exactly where i was coming from with the chabot trade suggestion. Sell high, and trade guys when it hurts. Judging by the forum reaction, it hurts right now. Just keep extracting value on futures deals until the team can compete with a young stable of cheap stars and a strong supporting cast.

The idea that management seems to have about trading guys before their UFA years almost makes sense. You seem to want to trade them before their RFA years. We won’t have a strong supporting cast because you’re trading them at 22 lol. In today nhl you don’t see teams setting up other teams for the future with one trade. It doesn’t work like that. Like it or not. We have to sign some of these guys. And our best player who is 22 is one of those guys.

 

[GrantLemons]

Craig Button rated the Ottawa Senators prospect pool a B+

Indeed, and we gave away what ended up being a 4th overall, and easily could have been a 1st overall with some bingo luck. Imagine what it is with that pick in the mix?

 

[Micklebot]

Stone finished 42, 62, 67, 35, 30 in scoring the last 5 years from current season to 5 years ago

In terms of ppg, he finished 47, 14, 46, 33, 37.

You have a big vocabulary. I think you can find a more accurate term than exploded to describe his recent scoring.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but in the context of the discussion, the perception of the player around the league, I think exploded is accurate, particularly when people were watching him closest.
His pts per game went from .76-.81 in 2014-15 to 2016-17 to .95-1.07 in 2017-18 to 2018-19. That’s a big jump even if this year in particular was part of a broader jump league wide. Point per game production is a bit of a milestone as well that gets people paying more attention, regardless of where it ranks league wide. Breaking that threshold is likely more relevant to perception than league ranking,
At the deadline when he was traded and everyone’s eyes were on him, his pts per game was at 1.05 on a brutal team. A drop in performance after the trade probably would have had more of an impact on league wide perception, except that he followed it up in the playoffs where players make their reputations by leading all players in pts per game at 1.71 pts per game. He then went on to lead Canada in scoring and top 5 in the tournament at the World Championship.
So, I disagree with you, Stone’s production absolutely did explode, and while there was some context surrounding that explosion that may frame it in a different light, I think when sticking to the overall topic of why perception of him changed recently, it is still the increase in production that got people paying attention, and that exposure that changed old views into current ones, not the tired narrative that now that he’s gone people are overhyping him because he’s not a Sen.

 

[BondraTime]

He was just nominated for his 1st all-inclusive leaguewide award, that's another reason

 

[Micklebot]

Craig Button rated the Ottawa Senators prospect pool a B+

And do you feel that is a reasonable place for a team that finished last place and 2nd last place the last two seasons along with having traded off Duchene, Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, and Dzingel?

 

[stempniaksen]

He was just nominated for his 1st all-inclusive leaguewide award, that's another reason

He already had a Calder nomination.

Not to take away from your point though, the Selke nod obviously made a difference in his perception league wide.

 

[branch]

And do you feel that is a reasonable place for a team that finished last place and 2nd last place the last two seasons along with having traded off Duchene, Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, and Dzingel?

Bowen Byram in the pool surely would have bumped it up to at least an A

 

[Qward]

And do you feel that is a reasonable place for a team that finished last place and 2nd last place the last two seasons along with having traded off Duchene, Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, and Dzingel?

All I feel is sad

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

And do you feel that is a reasonable place for a team that finished last place and 2nd last place the last two seasons along with having traded off Duchene, Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, and Dzingel?

What I think doesn't change the fact that they are ranked, where the are.

I'm not going to waste my energy complaining, from a POV of 100% hindsight, about woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I'll leave the nitpicking of the past to those who like to wallow in it, I acknowledge the past, and leave it there for the most part, and move on.

 

[Micklebot]

What I think doesn't change the fact that they are ranked, where the are.

I'm not going to waste my energy complaining, from a POV of 100% hindsight, about woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I'll leave the nitpicking of the past to those who like to wallow in it, I acknowledge the past, and leave it there for the most part, and move on.

Ok, but if you refuse to acknowledge and evaluate what they gave up and how they have performed of late then Button's ranking is irrelevant in determining whether or not we mortgaged the future.

Determining whether or not we mortgaged the future, the post you responded to, is all about evaluating where we could or should be if not for short term decisions. If you don't want to discuss it then you probably shouldn't bother responding to those who are actively discussing it.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Ok, but if you refuse to acknowledge and evaluate what they gave up and how they have performed of late then Button's ranking is irrelevant in determining whether or not we mortgaged the future.

Determining whether or not we mortgaged the future, the post you responded to, is all about evaluating where we could or should be if not for short term decisions. If you don't want to discuss it then you probably shouldn't bother responding to those who are actively discussing it.

Fair point.
Those who want to waste their energy, living in an alternative universe, some times post something that make no sense, whatsoever, inviting other points to be brought to their attention.
If they don't complain, then perhaps your 2 cents could be used elsewhere.

 

[branch]

Fair point.
Those who want to waste their energy, living in an alternative universe, some times post something that make no sense, whatsoever, inviting other points to be brought to their attention.
If they don't complain, then perhaps your 2 cents could be used elsewhere.

 

[GrantLemons]

Fair point.
Those who want to waste their energy, living in an alternative universe, some times post something that make no sense, whatsoever, inviting other points to be brought to their attention.
If they don't complain, then perhaps your 2 cents could be used elsewhere.

Wasting energy...lol. Most of the time I am just relaxing to the max, at my pc, with my feet up, in my underwear. Don't worry, I'm not expending any extra energy discussing the past performance of our current hockey ops team and front office.

 

[Qward]

Someone on mainboards proposed Seabrook + Boqvist for whatever. I would be all over that. After Seabrook gets his bonus on July 1st his salary this season is only $4M. His total cost each season is less than his cap hit.

This year
Chabot/Seabrook
Brannstom/DeMelo
Boro/Boqvist

Down the road

Chabot/Thomas (the names work and you know it.)
Brannstom/Boqvist (Keep the swedes together)

 

[branch]

Someone on mainboards proposed Seabrook + Boqvist for whatever. I would be all over that. After Seabrook gets his bonus on July 1st his salary this season is only $4M. His total cost each season is less than his cap hit.

This year
Chabot/Seabrook
Brannstom/DeMelo
Boro/Boqvist

Down the road

Chabot/Thomas (the names work and you know it.)
Brannstom/Boqvist (Keep the swedes together)

Full NMC.

 

[Liver King]

We literally have no rumors about us!!

 

[Samsquanch]

We literally have no rumors about us!!

Considering our recent history of scandal and embarrassing events, this has to be considered a good thing..

No news is good news my Grandpa always used to say..

 

[Qward]

Full NMC.

I'll talk to him, anyone have his number?

 

[SpezDispenser]

Man...I would give so much to unite the Tkachuk brothers. I wish it was possible

 

[Fandlauer]

Man...I would give so much to unite the Tkachuk brothers. I wish it was possible

I could definetly see Brady playing in Calgary down the road.

 

[armani]

And do you feel that is a reasonable place for a team that finished last place and 2nd last place the last two seasons along with having traded off Duchene, Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, and Dzingel?

I feel the prospect pool is better than it has every been this decade - especially in goal and defense, with Brannstrom being a bluechipper. There is no game breaking forward propsect, which should change in 2020 draft with the team projected to finish bottom 3 if not last.

With the team also loading up on potential bottom six centre prospects, I can see them addressing skills issues in top-6 (esp. centers) with so many picks in the top-64 next year. Alexis Lafrenière is the dream here - not a centre but a potential star/franchise player - and with the current roster it's realistic.

 

[Samsquanch]

To be fair, his last two years here his production exploded; he was a 60-65 pts player for 3 years then in 17-18 he becomes a pt per game guy and follows that up with a similar performance in 18-19, so of course the league will start to recognize him as more than they did for the majority of his time here.

As much as some might be over-hyping him because management let him slip away (top 5 winger I think is a little high, maybe top 5 RW but even that might be a stretch), I think you are doing your best to minimize him.

If I wanted to minimize him, that was definitely not my best attempt at it. Im not afraid to call it like I see it, and wont tip toe around it.

Stone was an elite player, super fun to watch, and by the end he was the heart and soul of our team. It was incredibly hard to see him leave.

But you and a large portion of the fan base have a romanticized view of him now that hes gone. Hes not a super star, hes just a very high end winger with tremendous character. Karlsson is this teams only true superstar that has left us in their prime.

I for one wont be stuck reminiscing about the "good old days" of Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman and Duchene when we were making noise in the playoffs and simultaneously self imploding. We were somehow equal parts amazing and horrendous.

It was a fun run with that core to the ECF, but its time to move on. Its like game of thrones man, its over. It sucked how it finished but had some epic moments along the way, now its time to move on and find something new.

 

[Knave]

If I wanted to minimize him, that was definitely not my best attempt at it. Im not afraid to call it like I see it, and wont tip toe around it.

Stone was an elite player, super fun to watch, and by the end he was the heart and soul of our team. It was incredibly hard to see him leave.

But you and a large portion of the fan base have a romanticized view of him now that hes gone. Hes not a super star, hes just a very high end winger with tremendous character. Karlsson is this teams only true superstar that has left us in their prime.

I for one wont be stuck reminiscing about the "good old days" of Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman and Duchene when we were making noise in the playoffs and simultaneously self imploding. We were somehow equal parts amazing and horrendous.

It was a fun run with that core to the ECF, but its time to move on. Its like game of thrones man, its over. It sucked how it finished but had some epic moments along the way, now its time to move on and find something new.

He's one of the top right wings in the game.

I'm not about to dwell on things but he's elite and one of the best at his position. Didn't some magazine crunch the numbers to find out his even strength points per game was only behind McDavid, MacKinnon and Marchand?

If he can figure out the PP he would be scoring at a much higher rate. We'll see how he does for a full year next year with Las Vegas.

 

[Samsquanch]

He's one of the top right wings in the game.

I'm not about to dwell on things but he's elite and one of the best at his position. Didn't some magazine crunch the numbers to find out his even strength points per game was only behind McDavid, MacKinnon and Marchand?

If he can figure out the PP he would be scoring at a much higher rate. We'll see how he does for a full year next year with Las Vegas.

With absolutely no disrespect meant towards Stone, Id take the following wingers fairly easily over him (all things considered);

Kucherov
Ovechkin
Tkachuk
Rantanen
Pastranak
Wheeler
Landeskog
Tarasenko
Kane
Laine
Draisaitl
Marner
Kessel
Huberdeau
DeBrincat
Boeser