Trade Proposal Thread - The "Can We Just Trade Therrien?" Edition

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[Bourne Endeavor]

Devil fans are offering a 3rd for Desharnais. Quick, we gotta keep Bergevin distracted and forge the paperwork!

 

[Walksss]

Where do people find these trash slogans? Motivational posters?

Of course circumstance and environment matter.

LeClaire was mediocre in Montreal, went on to 50 goal seasons in Philadelphia. Ribeiro was mediocre in Montreal and became an 80 point player in Dallas. McDonagh was busting in Montreal and became a top-30 dman in New York.

Conversely, Desharnais has been given 50 point seasons in Montreal, whereas no other NHL team has ever wanted him.

Elsewhere in the league, Seguin was a second liner in Boston and became an elite 1st liner in Dallas. James Neal scores 30 goals in Pittsburgh and 20 goals in Nashville. Rick Nash scores 30 goals in Columbus and 40 goals in New York.

LeClaire went to play on a line with Eric Lindros and Mikael Renberg and they dominated the league. James Neal goes from playing with Crosby to playing with Mike Fischer or Mike Ribeiro, those production changes are due to elite line mates changing so of course that has to do with circumstance. My argument certainly isn't that Chucky's production wouldn't go up if he suddenly played on a line with Crosby, I mean come on.

McDonagh and Seguin were both progressing just fine at the time of their trades and just developed further. Seguin was a budding star in Boston and McD was never bad, don't see how their development really changed at all.

Rick Nash has scored 40+ for Columbus twice and NYR once and he's been criticized plenty in his time there, that one is out to lunch, nonetheless he was elite in Columbus anyways.

Ribeiro is an interesting case but he was never bad in Montreal either, I was pissed when he was run outta town but whatever he progressed nicely and thats good for him.

Nonetheless you can grab as many examples as you want and I can go out and find a million players that never lived up to what they were expected to be, it's proof of nothing. At the end of the day I believe that you are in charge of your own development in life, period. I refuse to accept a defeatist attitude where the world has conspired against poor Alex Galchenyuk and he simply can't get any better or play harder because everyone has been so mean to him. I don't accept that in my personal life and I don't accept it because people think a stall in a players development falls squarely on everyone and everything but the player.

A players development is in the hands of many people but at the end of the day the person who deserves the most blame is Alex. I have yet to see him play determined and inspired, I have yet to see him rise above any adversity at all, and I have yet to see him be able to raise his level of play at key moments. Those are traits that don't develop and you don't teach, I don't care who the coach is, you have it or you don't. You think Quenneville taught that to Toews and Kane?

Am I saying that he could never be a great player? No. Am I saying it's unlikely? Yes, but I hope I'm wrong. My whole point is that he's not nearly the player that this board hopes he is and for me he's far from an untouchable.

 

[DAChampion]

Patrick Kane waa given opportunity from his first season. He scored 72 points.

Regardless, if you want to believe the ridiculous ideology that deployment and environment do not matter, then go ahead. It sounds like something one would hear from a Fox News documentary.

 

[Walksss]

Patrick Kane waa given opportunity from his first season. He scored 72 points.

Regardless, if you want to believe the ridiculous ideology that deployment and environment do not matter, then go ahead. It sounds like something one would hear from a Fox News documentary.

Ahhh now I see, if only Galchenyuk had been drafted by Chicago then he would be just like Toews or Kane, how could I have missed that.

Conversely it's really gonna be something when McDavid is ruined by Edmonton because their environment is crappy. That's really gonna be something to watch.

 

[BatVader]

Therrien for Phaneuf, straight up.

 

[DAChampion]

Ahhh now I see, if only Galchenyuk had been drafted by Chicago then he would be just like Toews or Kane, how could I have missed that.

Conversely it's really gonna be something when McDavid is ruined by Edmonton because their environment is crappy. That's really gonna be something to watch.

McDavid could actually be undermined by Edmonton, a lot has been written about, for example, how they do not value player health appropriately.

Do you actually think thay Hall, Nugent Hopkins, and Yakupov have reached their best potential?

 

[Walksss]

McDavid could actually be undermined by Edmonton, a lot has been written about, for example, how they do not value player health appropriately.

Do you actually think thay Hall, Nugent Hopkins, and Yakupov have reached their best potential?

Nothing wrong with what Hall's done, he had 80 points a year ago and averages 3+ shots per game, didn't expect him to be a 100 point guy. RNH has been underwhelming but I heard his shoulder is a constant problem, don't know if thats true or not. Yakupov is a scrub, never believed the hype on him, never liked him in interviews or anywhere really, his crapiness doesn't surprise me whatsoever.

I don't care though cause if they suck thats on them. Hall has managed to put up points while in a lousy environment because he holds himself accountable. Eberle has been able to as well. RNH had a great first year, then under performed since his surgery. Nonetheless I'm not gonna sit here and blame only management personnel like this forum likes to do. A players development is driven by the player. The end.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I don't care though cause if they suck thats on them. Hall has managed to put up points while in a lousy environment because he holds himself accountable. Eberle has been able to as well. RNH had a great first year, then under performed since his surgery. Nonetheless I'm not gonna sit here and blame only management personnel like this forum likes to do. A players development is driven by the player. The end.

Absolutely, in a vacuum void of veteran/personal bias, one-way contracts, waiver eligibility, double standards, mind-****s, salary caps and pressure to win now

We know what one guys ceiling is, it's lucky to be 50 pts, the other guys is already there with half the spoon fed help, it's not on the player to develop into something he's not being allowed to do, it's on management to put him in that position and let him develop - on the low end they're equal, on the high end they're worlds apart

 

[habsfanatics*]

LeClaire went to play on a line with Eric Lindros and Mikael Renberg and they dominated the league. James Neal goes from playing with Crosby to playing with Mike Fischer or Mike Ribeiro, those production changes are due to elite line mates changing so of course that has to do with circumstance. My argument certainly isn't that Chucky's production wouldn't go up if he suddenly played on a line with Crosby, I mean come on.

McDonagh and Seguin were both progressing just fine at the time of their trades and just developed further. Seguin was a budding star in Boston and McD was never bad, don't see how their development really changed at all.

Rick Nash has scored 40+ for Columbus twice and NYR once and he's been criticized plenty in his time there, that one is out to lunch, nonetheless he was elite in Columbus anyways.

Ribeiro is an interesting case but he was never bad in Montreal either, I was pissed when he was run outta town but whatever he progressed nicely and thats good for him.

Nonetheless you can grab as many examples as you want and I can go out and find a million players that never lived up to what they were expected to be, it's proof of nothing. At the end of the day I believe that you are in charge of your own development in life, period. I refuse to accept a defeatist attitude where the world has conspired against poor Alex Galchenyuk and he simply can't get any better or play harder because everyone has been so mean to him. I don't accept that in my personal life and I don't accept it because people think a stall in a players development falls squarely on everyone and everything but the player.

A players development is in the hands of many people but at the end of the day the person who deserves the most blame is Alex. I have yet to see him play determined and inspired, I have yet to see him rise above any adversity at all, and I have yet to see him be able to raise his level of play at key moments. Those are traits that don't develop and you don't teach, I don't care who the coach is, you have it or you don't. You think Quenneville taught that to Toews and Kane?

Am I saying that he could never be a great player? No. Am I saying it's unlikely? Yes, but I hope I'm wrong. My whole point is that he's not nearly the player that this board hopes he is and for me he's far from an untouchable.

There's no second "e" in LeClair. Great post and I agree with it all.

 

[DAChampion]

The idea that John LeClair needed to be spoonfed points by Eric Lindros is revisionist history made up bby Habs fans who love to defend management. Leclair scored 184 goals in the period 1996-00, during which Lindros missed 87 games due to injury. Leclair continued to average 28 goals per 82 games with Lindros on a different team well into his mid 30s. Leclair was undeniably a very good player with or without Lindros. He was neve great on the Habs.

Now, to return to Galchenyuk, everybody who has ever been an expert in anything knows that there is no expertise and no eliteness without practice. Nobody is spontaneously elite at anything, it always takes training. A lot of training. And the most important training is ice time.

Patrick Kane, brought up as an example earlier, got 18:21, 18:39, and 19:11 TOI/game in hisfirst three seasons, with a lot of power play time. Alex Galchenyuk got 12:19, 14:23, and 16:25 of ice time per game, including less than half the power play time Kane got. Note that Kane was playing on better teams, a stanley cup champion in hid third season. He was beating out players vastly superior to David Desespoir for ice time.

An alternative example is Carey Price. Managment traded away Huet and Halak for Price. Price crapped the bed in 2008 and 2013. But it was never a problem. They always stood by him and gave him more chances... eventually it paid off. That is the way to invest in young and talented players, give them ice time.

The fact is, Price would have never become an elite player if he had not been allowed to lose all those games in his early years.

 

[Alex514]

Trading coaches eh?

Now that's something the league should allow! ...if only to spare us habs fans from the nightmare that is MT.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Nothing wrong with what Hall's done, he had 80 points a year ago and averages 3+ shots per game, didn't expect him to be a 100 point guy. RNH has been underwhelming but I heard his shoulder is a constant problem, don't know if thats true or not. Yakupov is a scrub, never believed the hype on him, never liked him in interviews or anywhere really, his crapiness doesn't surprise me whatsoever.

I don't care though cause if they suck thats on them. Hall has managed to put up points while in a lousy environment because he holds himself accountable. Eberle has been able to as well. RNH had a great first year, then under performed since his surgery. Nonetheless I'm not gonna sit here and blame only management personnel like this forum likes to do. A players development is driven by the player. The end.

couldnt be more wrong.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Devil fans are offering a 3rd for Desharnais. Quick, we gotta keep Bergevin distracted and forge the paperwork!

Wow, stupid Devils fans

 

[smirob]

I am still waiting for this long list of teams where DD is a top 6 player, that Moncton Scout promised.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Stall + Skinner ($14Mish in cap) Top line centre and scoring winger that Montreal NEEDS.

For

Plex, PAP, Gilbert, Hudon/Ghetto, 26th ($12Mish in cap) All expiring contracts that the Canes can trade at the deadline if need be and some youth and picks.


Patches Staal Gally
Skinner Chucky DSP
DD Eller Weise
DLR/Prust Mitchell Flynn

DD assuming we can't move him for a pick/prospect etc. Stll showed he played well on the wing when he was there last year and can add some offense to the 3rd line in anycase.

RW still an issue but hopefully Ghetto, Scherbak or McCarron can fill that role out of camp.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I am still waiting for this long list of teams where DD is a top 6 player, that Moncton Scout promised.

You will never get it.

 

[Drive425]

Stall + Skinner ($14Mish in cap) Top line centre and scoring winger that Montreal NEEDS.

For

Plex, PAP, Gilbert, Hudon/Ghetto, 26th ($12Mish in cap) All expiring contracts that the Canes can trade at the deadline if need be and some youth and picks.


Patches Staal Gally
Skinner Chucky DSP
DD Eller Weise
DLR/Prust Mitchell Flynn

DD assuming we can't move him for a pick/prospect etc. Stll showed he played well on the wing when he was there last year and can add some offense to the 3rd line in anycase.

RW still an issue but hopefully Ghetto, Scherbak or McCarron can fill that role out of camp.

I'd like to have Staal but it would likely take more than this to get him alone. Skinner on the other hand is small and injury prone. No need for Habs to invest cap space and assets in this guy.

I'd be interested in Okposo, would the Habs/Iles make good trade partners?

 

[HabsChik*]

Stall and Okposo im in

bye bye Plekanecs and Desharnais

 

[gusfring]

Stall + Skinner ($14Mish in cap) Top line centre and scoring winger that Montreal NEEDS.

For

Plex, PAP, Gilbert, Hudon/Ghetto, 26th ($12Mish in cap) All expiring contracts that the Canes can trade at the deadline if need be and some youth and picks.


Patches Staal Gally
Skinner Chucky DSP
DD Eller Weise
DLR/Prust Mitchell Flynn

DD assuming we can't move him for a pick/prospect etc. Stll showed he played well on the wing when he was there last year and can add some offense to the 3rd line in anycase.

RW still an issue but hopefully Ghetto, Scherbak or McCarron can fill that role out of camp.

Carolina says no. Please, be serious.

 

[blarneylad]

Ahhh now I see, if only Galchenyuk had been drafted by Chicago then he would be just like Toews or Kane, how could I have missed that.

Conversely it's really gonna be something when McDavid is ruined by Edmonton because their environment is crappy. That's really gonna be something to watch.

Are you suggesting that their handful of current high picks haven't been underwhelming?

 

[Miller Time]

The idea that John LeClair needed to be spoonfed points by Eric Lindros is revisionist history made up bby Habs fans who love to defend management. Leclair scored 184 goals in the period 1996-00, during which Lindros missed 87 games due to injury. Leclair continued to average 28 goals per 82 games with Lindros on a different team well into his mid 30s. Leclair was undeniably a very good player with or without Lindros. He was neve great on the Habs.

Now, to return to Galchenyuk, everybody who has ever been an expert in anything knows that there is no expertise and no eliteness without practice. Nobody is spontaneously elite at anything, it always takes training. A lot of training. And the most important training is ice time.

Patrick Kane, brought up as an example earlier, got 18:21, 18:39, and 19:11 TOI/game in hisfirst three seasons, with a lot of power play time. Alex Galchenyuk got 12:19, 14:23, and 16:25 of ice time per game, including less than half the power play time Kane got. Note that Kane was playing on better teams, a stanley cup champion in hid third season. He was beating out players vastly superior to David Desespoir for ice time.

An alternative example is Carey Price. Managment traded away Huet and Halak for Price. Price crapped the bed in 2008 and 2013. But it was never a problem. They always stood by him and gave him more chances... eventually it paid off. That is the way to invest in young and talented players, give them ice time.

The fact is, Price would have never become an elite player if he had not been allowed to lose all those games in his early years.

intelligent posts like these are what make this board great...

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'd like to have Staal but it would likely take more than this to get him alone. Skinner on the other hand is small and injury prone. No need for Habs to invest cap space and assets in this guy.

I'd be interested in Okposo, would the Habs/Iles make good trade partners?

I agree that Staal is the centerpiece but it seems like Canes want to trade both. Skinner is a gamble but that's why he'll come cheap as the Canes want the cap spcae and are in full rebuild mode. As for Staal, they can ask for the moon but given the $8.3M in cap and the lack of trading partners that can take on more cap space, I doubt he'll get a huge return. If you look at what guys like Seguin, SPezza etc have been getting, it's far less than what most fans would have thought. Also, he's UFA end of season which adds more uncertainty. You very well could be right in the cost being more, but I'm trying to take a more muted approach than offering our entire farm system like other proposals I've seen here.

I'd LOVE Okposo on the Habs. I think he's exactly what we need and wished we had from a DSP and Weise but they just don't have the extra scoring touch Okposo has. I have no idea what Snow wants in return but outside of LD, we have a pretty good stable to trade for most any player we wanted IMO. Swap out Skinner for Okposo and I think we'd have a near perfect lineup.

Carolina says no. Please, be serious.

Probably but that's a starting point. Add a Scherbak/McCarron etc and you have the framework for something feasible.

 

[BLONG7]

Stall and Okposo im in

bye bye Plekanecs and Desharnais

Pleks has value, but DD has negative value...ask Grant!! DD could possibly get dumped to a floor team as the summer goes on, hopefully, but let's not hold our breath.

IF MB can somehow get rid of DD, this place would be a happy place....now if MT could be traded, well now we are talking euphoria!!

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Trading coaches eh?

Now that's something the league should allow! ...if only to spare us habs fans from the nightmare that is MT.

MT has value that is as negative as DD. We'd have to take cap dump in exchange. MT for Semin .