HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Vachon23]

You 100% can and Hughes likely wanted more than that as he was giving up a veteran and leave the team with really just Matheson as the vet.

Savard is more important to keep as a vet then Matheson in my eyes

 

[Mrb1p]

Maybe it's a question of perception because while all of this may or may not be true (you really tracked his every mistake? My gosh lol).

I know exactly what type of Dman he is, he's risky and he's going to force the issue at times and turn the puck over as a result.

I have never, ever thought of him as Scott Niedermayer...so i'm perfectly fine given the context of this team that's he's mostly there, purely for his offense.

Well for the 70ish games I've seen.

His limited offensive IQ is also costing offense. It's easy to take it at face value and just say "hes good offensively" because his production is honestly amazing.

It's important to look at the context or his production though. The highest minutes in the league in soft minutes (6v5, 5v4, 5v3, 3v3 and 4v4), stapled to the first PP with the good players, stapled to every single offensive units, very little is asked of him defensively, etc.

You can take it at face value but you can also realize that there's very little examples of this type of deployment for successful teams. The only one I can think of is Carlson in Washington.

If he is a stop gap, he's pretty much wasted value because you know someone will overpay for him and if he is not then we're not going anywhere unless he's on the third pair in an exploitation role.

Matheson is a fine player in a vacuum and most of the gripe I have with him are the same I had with Desharnais and Danault. The moment you have to sacrifice team success for a players success, you're in a territory that cannot be conducive to winning. The moment Suzuki came in and slid Danault down to 2 and a half C, the team started winning more and he started scoring less.

Yeah i'm not sure about the mentorship angle either, I think most players actually don't want to be mentors if anything. But for me it's more about his value as a contributor on this team, he does jumpstart a lot of our offense and again, although he's no defensive stalwart, his skating enables him to cover a lot of ground defensively.

To me there's a lot of value in that for the continued development of the players we currently have. I don't think there's anyone on the roster right now whose capable of doing what he does on the ice at this stage of their careers.

Of course, you hope one day Hutson/Mailloux/Reinbacher can bring some of the elements that Matheson has but in a more "holistic" way, but what are you telling Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Dach, Newhook and any other player this team is building, by taking away one of it's prime offensive weapons?



To me it's just what he brings and what he does, has a certain value...and that value is very high. So when I read that someone would trade him for a mid round 1st round pick, it's a head scratcher to me.

And I wouldn't call myself a "fan" per se, like you, I think there's some holes in his game but I do think he's gotten much better as a complete player. The player I thought we were acquiring when we traded for him and the player he is today (at least IMO) is totally different.

So again, i'm not opposed to trading him...I just think he's worth more than what's being tossed around here. There aren't a lot of dmen in the NHL who can skate and do the things he does offensively (not withstanding his defensive lapses).

I think it's normal that guys who produce offensively, tend to get more rope. But that's probably got more to do with Matheson's standing as a veteran more than anything.

There's some players that do it very well. Savard is one, and there is sure value in that. I'm entirely sure Matheson doesn't really do it. He doesn't talk to anyone on the bench or on the ice, he's just there. Savard can be seen barking all over. Sometimes it can be a lot more subtle like Marky with Subban but it is still there.

 

[417]

Well for the 70ish games I've seen.

His limited offensive IQ is also costing offense. It's easy to take it at face value and just say "hes good offensively" because his production is honestly amazing.

It's important to look at the context or his production though. The highest minutes in the league in soft minutes (6v5, 5v4, 5v3, 3v3 and 4v4), stapled to the first PP with the good players, stapled to every single offensive units, very little is asked of him defensively, etc.

You can take it at face value but you can also realize that there's very little examples of this type of deployment for successful teams. The only one I can think of is Carlson in Washington.

I agree with what you're saying here as well, but in the context of THIS team and what the expectations have been for them, I don't think it's an issue.

If the Habs were Cup hopefuls, this isn't a discussion we'd be having because Matheson wouldn't be playing top pairing or the amount of minutes he does.

If he is a stop gap, he's pretty much wasted value because you know someone will overpay for him and if he is not then we're not going anywhere unless he's on the third pair in an exploitation role.

Matheson is a fine player in a vacuum and most of the gripe I have with him are the same I had with Desharnais and Danault. The moment you have to sacrifice team success for a players success, you're in a territory that cannot be conducive to winning. The moment Suzuki came in and slid Danault down to 2 and a half C, the team started winning more and he started scoring less.


There's some players that do it very well. Savard is one, and there is sure value in that. I'm entirely sure Matheson doesn't really do it. He doesn't talk to anyone on the bench or on the ice, he's just there. Savard can be seen barking all over. Sometimes it can be a lot more subtle like Marky with Subban but it is still there.

Yeah good take here, it's much more nuanced but for now, I'm not moving Matheson unless a team offers the kind of return that represents his value to THIS team.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Matheson doesn't protect anything he asks our young 1D to play out of position and to cover for him.

We can get a better vet on the RD.

*shrug*, keeps a young D from playing first pairing D before they are ready.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

32 thoughts.

Habs have interest Maxim Tsyplakov - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

He should be deciding where he signs this week, but could be sooner, or later.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What does our herd say about Rossi in terms of him being our next Dach/Newhook add?

5'-9" and 183 lbs. Coming off a solid season at age 22. Think I would pass on this but an interesting young player

 

[Pat Riot]

What does our herd say about Rossi in terms of him being our next Dach/Newhook add?

5'-9" and 183 lbs. Coming off a solid season at age 22. Think I would pass on this but an interesting young player

Good player but too small for our group

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good player but too small for our group

Agreed. Just wasn't sure if our herd talked about this option yet.

 

[waitin425]

What does our herd say about Rossi in terms of him being our next Dach/Newhook add?

5'-9" and 183 lbs. Coming off a solid season at age 22. Think I would pass on this but an interesting young player

I am personally okay with another smallish player (could be Rossi) if we put that player on a line opposite Caufield and with players who play a bigger game. Would want to draft Lindstrom or Sennecke if that was the case.

Slaf - Suzuki - Rossi
Caufield - Dach - Lindstrom/Sennecke

If we draft Demidov or Catton (not likely) than I would want to add someone via trade or FA with a little more size.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am personally okay with another smallish player (could be Rossi) if we put that player on a line opposite Caufield and with players who play a bigger game. Would want to draft Lindstrom or Sennecke if that was the case.

Slaf - Suzuki - Rossi
Caufield - Dach - Lindstrom/Sennecke

If we draft Demidov or Catton (not likely) than I would want to add someone via trade or FA with a little more size.

I would prefer to try to acquire Rossi with what we already have. Maybe Barron and Mesar as a package? Does that make the Wild think? Not desperate to move either of Barron or Mesar but with Mesar, his value may never be as high as today.

 

[Vachon23]

32 thoughts.

Habs have interest Maxim Tsyplakov - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

He should be deciding where he signs this week, but could be sooner, or later.

No thanks for me

 

[waitin425]

I would prefer to try to acquire Rossi with what we already have. Maybe Barron and Mesar as a package? Does that make the Wild think? Not desperate to move either of Barron or Mesar but with Mesar, his value may never be as high as today.

Done!

Draft Lindstrom #5

Trade Barron + Mesar for Rossi - acquiring a 21 goal 40 point young forward.

Retain Jets 1st and both 1sts next year for prospect restocking.

Having our top 6 of the future nailed down, while still having a ton of draft capital is how we build a sustainable pipeline of success. It is like a self feeding engine that keeps itself fueled.

So much better than many other teams that are our neighbours in the standings.

I feel like we are doing this right...even with all the debate over our picks the last couple of years.

 

[morhilane]

Savard is more important to keep as a vet then Matheson in my eyes

Going by the pundits, Habs will trade Savard sooner than later. And it's going to be a mistake. Savard is the one mentioned as the mentor of the young blueliners, not Matheson.

I am personally okay with another smallish player (could be Rossi) if we put that player on a line opposite Caufield and with players who play a bigger game.

Putting on big and one small player together doesn't work the way you think. Already with CC/Suzuki/Slaf, teams were just pressuring CC side all the time, especially defensively.

 

[Mrb1p]

I agree with what you're saying here as well, but in the context of THIS team and what the expectations have been for them, I don't think it's an issue.

If the Habs were Cup hopefuls, this isn't a discussion we'd be having because Matheson wouldn't be playing top pairing or the amount of minutes he does.

Yeah good take here, it's much more nuanced but for now, I'm not moving Matheson unless a team offers the kind of return that represents his value to THIS team.

I agree It wasn't an issue the last two years, as we get closer to competing and as players are getting closer to prime time, I think it starts being an issue though. I think this is the year to part ways, it just makes to much sense, no? 22 YO Guhle ready for #1 duties, Hutson ready to be the offensive guy, Xhekaj ready to be a full timer, Struble as a 7th D/ backup or 3RD.

If someone goes down Struble slots in at LD and its a true test for the healthy players.

Were in beta testing right now, do we really want an old tried and true but clearly outdated program to take the numbers? Or should we go all in on the next wave ? Especially, like I said if that move can get us a young forward, RD or the money can get us a similarly aged RD.

*shrug*, keeps a young D from playing first pairing D before they are ready.

Fake because Guhle has been playing top pair for two years, including a full year at RD to catter to Matheson.

Guhle-Xx
Xhekaj
Hutson
Struble

Or

Matheson-Guhle
xhekaj
Hutson
Struble


Please tell me how Guhle/Xhekaj/Hutson/Struble/Harris have been sheltered?

What does our herd say about Rossi in terms of him being our next Dach/Newhook add?

5'-9" and 183 lbs. Coming off a solid season at age 22. Think I would pass on this but an interesting young player

I say hes very small and no thanks.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Going by the pundits, Habs will trade Savard sooner than later. And it's going to be a mistake. Savard is the one mentioned as the mentor of the young blueliners, not Matheson.

Savard's age 34 season is coming and he's going to run out of gas with that weight/age. He's signed and used to the right point of his career. He's very savvy in terms of providing steady D and mentoring guys but the next season is where it ends.

Matheson is not a mentor type. I agree there. Maybe he has a few opinions but he can't really teach defensive play too much. All he can talk about is how long it took him to figure it out.

 

[Mrb1p]

32 thoughts.

Habs have interest Maxim Tsyplakov - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

He should be deciding where he signs this week, but could be sooner, or later.

I'm always down to try to get ufa talents for the low. At worse he's just not good enough and he's AHL/bought out/waived.

 

[Benstheman]

No thanks for me

Why?? Just asking because i don't know shit about him.

But stats wise, production and height, he seems like a reasonnably good catch no?

 

[417]

I agree It wasn't an issue the last two years, as we get closer to competing and as players are getting closer to prime time, I think it starts being an issue though. I think this is the year to part ways, it just makes to much sense, no? 22 YO Guhle ready for #1 duties, Hutson ready to be the offensive guy, Xhekaj ready to be a full timer, Struble as a 7th D/ backup or 3RD.

If someone goes down Struble slots in at LD and its a true test for the healthy players.

Were in beta testing right now, do we really want an old tried and true but clearly outdated program to take the numbers? Or should we go all in on the next wave ? Especially, like I said if that move can get us a young forward, RD or the money can get us a similarly aged RD.

Personally, I don't know any of these to be true to be honest...especially not the Guhle/Hutson questions.

I'm probably not as high on Guhle as most, not that I don't think he's a very good young player but I don't see top pairing upside (unless he's matched up with a very strong RD) and its a stretch for more at this point to say that I think Hutson could step into the NHL right now and provide the offensive support that Matheson does, and like Matheson, whenever Hutson does eventually fill that roll, we're going to have to live with his defensive shortcomings and they're likely to be even more glaring than Matheson's.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm always down to try to get ufa talents for the low. At worse he's just not good enough and he's AHL/bought out/waived.

Age 26 season coming. Worth a shot if it's free. Seems to have got to that maturity spot in his career. But I don't think he signs with us knowing how cluttered our depth is.

 

[Vachon23]

Going by the pundits, Habs will trade Savard sooner than later. And it's going to be a mistake. Savard is the one mentioned as the mentor of the young blueliners, not Matheson.

And Savard is RD + reliable defensively what a young defensive group need from a veteran

Why?? Just asking because i don't know shit about him.

But stats wise, production and height, he seems like a reasonnably good catch no?

just no interest in those KHL projet that never work

 

[Mrb1p]

Personally, I don't know any of these to be true to be honest...especially not the Guhle/Hutson questions.

I'm probably not as high on Guhle as most, not that I don't think he's a very good young player but I don't see top pairing upside (unless he's matched up with a very strong RD) and its a stretch for more at this point to say that I think Hutson could step into the NHL right now and provide the offensive support that Matheson does, and like Matheson, whenever Hutson does eventually fill that roll, we're going to have to live with his defensive shortcomings and they're likely to be even more glaring than Matheson's.

Why do you believe Guhle doesn't have top pair upside? I mean, just watching him actually play top pair this year should give pause to that belief but let's hear it.

Hutsons is not as bad defensively as you think he is. He's been holding up his end very good against men in the NCAA and will do so in the NHL. He has one thing Matheson doesn't have: a brain. Don't underestimate the value of hockey IQ and processing power.

And Savard is RD + reliable defensively what a young defensive group need from a veteran

just no interest in those KHL projet that never work

It's a free gamble, I take that anytime. What's the down side? He steals a spot from Anderson/Pezz/Gally? At worse he's waived and we go back to the drawing board.

 

[Vachon23]

It's a free gamble, I take that anytime. What's the down side? He steals a spot from Anderson/Pezz/Gally? At worse he's waived and we go back to the drawing board

I prefer use that contract spot on a UFA who bring physicality then him

 

[vokiel]

Contract spots limited == Less free gambling.

 

[Mrb1p]

I prefer use that contract spot on a UFA who bring physicality then him

Non-issue, both can be done. The numbers of contracts are fine right now.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Age 26 season coming. Worth a shot if it's free. Seems to have got to that maturity spot in his career. But I don't think he signs with us knowing how cluttered our depth is.

What depth ?

The forward group is full of overpaid and/or suck.

If the Habs are able to sign him, he'd already be ahead of:

Pezzetta, Ylonen, Anderson, Dvorak, anyone in the AHL, RHP. Pearson is gone, too.

Wouldn't be surprised if he goes elsewhere, but there's a lot of deadweight up front.