HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Deus ex machina]

Cap space needs will depend on what we do this off season. With Armia, I do think Hughes tries to move him. He had a good season yes but he's inconsistent and it's a good time to move him for some form of value where we create even more cap space and also make room for the NHL ready prospects. I'd prefer to unload Gallagher and Anderson but that's too difficult

I'm not sure what prospects you're referring to.
If you give a young player a spot before the season starts and he doesn't deliver, you're in trouble.
Better to let him start the season in Laval and call him up when there's an injury and then you'll have a better evaluation of his readiness.
Like it happened with Roy this season.

I really don't see a good reason to trade Armia. He's an useful player.
I doubt they acquire enough new players to require clearing cap space.
They need to get more big players, not get rid of them.

 

[Benstheman]

Damn! I wish I had ruined my career the way PLD did.

High 6-figure salary for almost a decade, in LA no less. With his looks, popularity, and money, he'll have every gold-digging ho (Bill Burr) after him.

Yeah good for him. I guess it all depend on each and everyone's values.

The thing is he chose comfort instead of winning and being better at what he does.

 

[Habs Icing]

Seven figure salary.

My bad... gotta re-read my posts for typos.

 

[ReHabs]

Imagine giving up on Barron this early and trading him for peanuts where he turns into a top 4D with another team because he matures in the age 23-25 range like so many D men do in the NHL. That would hurt and we would be guilty of being impatient and desperate to make trades

We need to chill on D development. Barron has the rare size/skating/shot power and he's just late on the maturity scale... like so many others. Hold onto him for a while yet before we trade him for a low return.

I don't want to sell Barron and I'm not giving up on him -- he is not going to give much of a return anyway -- but if the Habs intend on not icing a soft-and-bad d-corps next year they need to upgrade the defensive positions wherever possible.

Matheson, Guhle, Xhekaj, and Hutson are more-or-less locks. Savard, Harris, Strubel, and Kovacevic are thereabouts too, and then there is Reinbacher and Mailloux.

Over whom is Barron a clear upgrade?

If he can't beat Harris, Strubel, or Kovacevic how can he develop into this mature top4 D you're projecting to see...?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not sure what prospects you're referring to.
If you give a young player a spot before the season starts and he doesn't deliver, you're in trouble.
Better to let him start the season in Laval and call him up when there's an injury and then you'll have a better evaluation of his readiness.
Like it happened with Roy this season.

I really don't see a good reason to trade Armia. He's an useful player.
I doubt they acquire enough new players to require clearing cap space.
They need to get more big players, not get rid of them.

Well, it started from adding all 3 of Zegras, Laine, and Monahan. If we were to make moves like this, we would have to unload Dvorak and Armia IMO.

Not desperate to move Armia. I like who he is when he is on his game. However, his time is near the end with the Habs and it's a good time to move him after the good season he has.

Are you banking on Armia being on a contract year and he has a great season where we can trade him at the 25 TDL?

 

[Pat Riot]

Obviously if the 2nd round pick turns out to be the next Kucherov, nobody is complaining. Be that as it may, Barron was a major part of the return and he's not developed as intended or desired and his trade-value is next to nothing due to the pending waivers issue. Lehkonen's been incredible for Colorado. They got what they wanted, but I don't think Hughes would do the trade again if he knew this would be the outcome.

Following your logic. Drouin has been incredible for Colorado too. Did we get hosed letting him walk away without receiving any kind of return for him?

I dont see the problem with the waiver situation with Barron. They will offer him a 2 years cheap contract to continue supervising his development. He might turn out to be a competent def around age 24.

Regarding Lekhonen trade. Even Sakic admit he feels he paid too much for him

 

[Benstheman]

Fans may have a different plan but I don't see the Habs trading Matheson until Hutson/Mailloux/Guhle show ability to QB the PP.

The Habs clearly want to move up the standings next year and Matheson on our PP is a big part of that plan.

It's already pretty clear Hutson will do the job on the PP. What he needs to prove is being capable of playing quality minutes 5 vs 5. When he is able to play that 17-18 minutes 5 vs 5, that's when Matheson can be traded imo. It will also depend on Reinbacher who will push Guhle back to his natural side.

I personally think the best moment to trade Matheson will be next summer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't want to sell Barron and I'm not giving up on him -- he is not going to give much of a return anyway -- but if the Habs intend on not icing a soft-and-bad d-corps next year they need to upgrade the defensive positions wherever possible.

Matheson, Guhle, Xhekaj, and Hutson are more-or-less locks. Savard, Harris, Strubel, and Kovacevic are thereabouts too, and then there is Reinbacher and Mailloux.

Over whom is Barron a clear upgrade?

If he can't beat Harris, Strubel, or Kovacevic how can he develop into this mature top4 D you're projecting to see...?

Hutson is not a lock IMO. If he makes it, it becomes at the cost of Harris, not Barron.

Habs can run with 8D if they have too. We ran with 3 goalies for 75% of the season

It's already pretty clear Hutson will do the job on the PP. What he needs to prove is being capable of playing quality minutes 5 vs 5. When he is able to play that 17-18 minutes 5 vs 5, that's when Matheson can be traded imo. It will also depend on Reinbacher who will push Guhle back to his natural side.

I personally think the best moment to trade Matheson will be next summer.

After 2 NHL games with Hutson? I think we should be having him and Reinbacher work as a pairing in the AHL to start the season.

Not trying to block Hutson but the true evaluation for him is how he handles D coverage in his own zone. His offensive vision is not in question but how he makes the team is much deeper than points. Ability to QB the PP is there yes but that's only one layer to it.

If Hutson makes it, it should come at the cost of Harris. Barron has to be managed with patience.

With Matheson, we are not getting a slam dunk return where we get a top 15 pick or a grade A asset. Most teams will offer us B+ and late 1st rounders IMO. Desperation offers for Matheson might come for some teams at the 25 TDL and that gives us time to evaluate Hutson more.... before we even consider to move Matheson.

 

[ReHabs]

Following your logic. Drouin has been incredible for Colorado too. Did we get hosed letting him walk away without receiving any kind of return for him?

How is this a reasonable inference? Drouin was released after six disappointing years.

I dont see the problem with the waiver situation with Barron. They will offer him a 2 years cheap contract to continue supervising his development. He might turn out to be a competent def around age 24.

The cheapness of his next contract doesn't change the fact he's not developed as quickly as anybody would have hoped -- not in the AHL and not in the NHL. If he turns it around in the AHL and earns a spot in the NHL and then keep is, fantastic. Who's complaining? Nobody. But if he remains a tweener next year, we run the risk of losing him on waivers or having a less-than-worthwhile player on the NHL roster.

I'm not sure what your argument is -- do you think Hughes would acquire Barron again if he had the opportunity?

 

[ReHabs]

Hutson is not a lock IMO. If he makes it, it becomes at the cost of Harris, not Barron.

Habs can run with 8D if they have too. We ran with 3 goalies for 75% of the season

Harris is better than Barron and plays a more professional game.

The Habs can run with 8D, sure, but how does that help Barron develop his game?

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Maybe he didn’t want to come to Montreal. I’m sure Hughes knew about it and given his penchant for young players, he didn’t go after him for a reason IMO.

We're still not moving Reinbacher. It's a ridiculous idea.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Harris is better than Barron and plays a more professional game.

The Habs can run with 8D, sure, but how does that help Barron develop his game?

Harris has shown more maturity yes but the long game is what is important. You're counting chickens before they hatch and not considering they hatch at different points in time.

Barron has the ability to rocket up to top 4D once he matures and so many of his types mature in the 23-25 age range. Just because Harris has shown maturity earlier, it don't mean he is better long term.

 

[Benstheman]

Hutson is not a lock IMO. If he makes it, it becomes at the cost of Harris, not Barron.

Habs can run with 8D if they have too. We ran with 3 goalies for 75% of the season



After 2 NHL games with Hutson? I think we should be having him and Reinbacher work as a pairing in the AHL to start the season.

Not trying to block Hutson but the true evaluation for him is how he handles D coverage in his own zone. His offensive vision is not in question but how he makes the team is much deeper than points. Ability to QB the PP is there yes but that's only one layer to it.

If Hutson makes it, it should come at the cost of Harris. Barron has to be managed with patience.

With Matheson, we are not getting a slam dunk return where we get a top 15 pick or a grade A asset. Most teams will offer us B+ and late 1st rounders IMO. Desperation offers for Matheson might come for some teams at the 25 TDL and that gives us time to evaluate Hutson more.... before we even consider to move Matheson.

We are saying the exact same thing.

 

[ReHabs]

Harris has shown more maturity yes but the long game is what is important. You're counting chickens before they hatch and not considering they hatch at different points in time.

Barron has the ability to rocket up to top 4D once he matures and so many of his types mature in the 23-25 age range. Just because Harris has shown maturity earlier, it don't mean he is better long term.

Okay -- how does it work when every young player has to room to develop. How do you choose between one or the other?

No one is counting chickens. Any young NHLer who is near or past the waivers exemption cut-off should be an established NHLer or else they're functionally worthless as a trade asset.

Given the glut of defenders Hughes has assembled, some have outplayed others and raised their stock. Guhle and Xhekaj most obviously. Jay Struble is the same age as Barron and looked much more stable and reliable. Tougher too.

Hoarding players and prospects doesn't help anyone. Barron has shuffled down the depth-chart at this point. It is what it is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We are saying the exact same thing.

Okay -- how does it work when every young player has to room to develop. How do you choose between one or the other?

No one is counting chickens. Any young NHLer who is near or past the waivers exemption cut-off should be an established NHLer or else they're functionally worthless as a trade asset.

Given the glut of defenders Hughes has assembled, some have outplayed others and raised their stock. Guhle and Xhekaj most obviously. Jay Struble is the same age as Barron and looked much more stable and reliable. Tougher too.

Hoarding players and prospects doesn't help anyone. Barron has shuffled down the depth-chart at this point. It is what it is.

Short but sweet and I already said it...

D men don't develop at the same rates and most of them only show their true potential from 23-25. Others mature later (like Petry and Matheson).

Harris is maxed. Barron is not maxed. That's my stance

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

We're still not moving Reinbacher. It's a ridiculous idea.

Especially given the slight rumour that Philly offered Gauthier to Montreal for a d, likely Reinbacher

 

[Saundies]

The D logjam is a conundrum. There are a couple of different ways it could go.

SCENARIO 1 - we preemptively trade 1-2 of them to make room for everyone and bolster our F group at the same time.

SCENARIO 2- we play all of the AHL eligible D in the AHL to start the year, regardless of their readiness (the Red Wings path). If any of them blow the assignment out of the water, it buys time for changes to be made at the NHL level to make room.

SCENARIO 3 - We start the year with a ton of D on the roster and sit 2-3 guys each game. We even go with 11F - 7D for a while.

By the way, my order of preference for these scenarios is 1 through 3. Judging by what happened with the goalies, however, I can see them wanting to with scenario 3. I don't like how it played out then, and I don't like this option either.

 

[ReHabs]

Harris is maxed. Barron is not maxed. That's my stance

So you'd bench, waive, or trade away Harris to give Barron a spot? Fine with me.

But else do you bench, waive, or trade away to give Barron a spot in the NHL -- because Harris or no Harris, Barron's still not a 6th dman.

Is the team better for it? The team intends on making the playoffs. Hyper-fixating on Barron's development at the expense of the team's performance is probably the worst possible thing to do. They need to play meaningful games in April and May.

And if you intend on stashing Barron in the AHL, that's also fine, but how is that going to help him develop his NHL-game *and lap* Harris, Struble, etc. on the depth chart?

 

[Deus ex machina]

Well, it started from adding all 3 of Zegras, Laine, and Monahan. If we were to make moves like this, we would have to unload Dvorak and Armia IMO.

Not desperate to move Armia. I like who he is when he is on his game. However, his time is near the end with the Habs and it's a good time to move him after the good season he has.

Are you banking on Armia being on a contract year and he has a great season where we can trade him at the 25 TDL?

I think they should keep him to mainly help the team.
Him being on a contract year doesn't hurt and i think he will probably have more trade value at the TDL than this summer, in the case that they decide to move on from him.

I think trading Dvorak only would be enough to fit these 3 new players.

 

[waitin425]

Here me out, I'm feeling a little frisky.

5th overall + Josh Anderson to Toronto
23rd overall + Mitch Marner to Montreal
23rd overall + 25th overall to move up to 16thish

Draft Sennecke

Ahhhh NVM I want nothing to do with baby poo Marner.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Short but sweet and I already said it...

D men don't develop at the same rates and most of them only show their true potential from 23-25. Others mature later (like Petry and Matheson).

Harris is maxed. Barron is not maxed. That's my stance

Harris isn't maxed. He's only 23. He's only a year older than Barron. Harris turns 24 this year. Barron 23.

Harris has only played 131 NHL games. The NHL theory is it takes at least 200 games before you see the player a D will become, so he has another year. This was just his 2nd full season.

 

[Lockin17]

MTL : #5 + #25
for
STL ; Dvorsky + #16

 

[Habs Halifax]

Harris isn't maxed. He's only 23. He's only a year older than Barron. Harris turns 24 this year. Barron 23.

Harris has only played 131 NHL games. The NHL theory is it takes at least 200 games before you see the player a D will become, so he has another year. This was just his 2nd full season.

Disagree. I don't see Harris improving much from this point. Modest gains after he showed maturity at a younger age. With Barron, I see more untapped potential.

 

[Kosseca]

MTL : #5 + #25
for
STL ; Dvorsky + #16

Can't see why STL would do this. They need top D, sure, but Dvorsky looks very promessing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think they should keep him to mainly help the team.
Him being on a contract year doesn't hurt and i think he will probably have more trade value at the TDL than this summer, in the case that they decide to move on from him.

I think trading Dvorak only would be enough to fit these 3 new players.

Too tight to the cap for my liking. Having more flexibility is important IMO.