HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Mrb1p]

bruh there are only 21 35G scorers in the league this year

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How many of those are defensive liabilities and just not that good in possession?

That lineup is not very good. It depends on how you project the 2nd line (not a fan of Roy) but to me this more like a decent 3rd line.
I think you project too much young prospect to become difference maker. Roy is still young and has a lot to learn. I would not give him the key for the 2nd line yet, he has to improve.

People who think Roy is a third liner are just bad talent evaluators.

That lineup is not very good. It depends on how you project the 2nd line (not a fan of Roy) but to me this more like a decent 3rd line.
I think you project too much young prospect to become difference maker. Roy is still young and has a lot to learn. I would not give him the key for the 2nd line yet, he has to improve.

People who think Roy is a third liner are just bad talent evaluators.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

How many of those are defensive liabilities and just not that good in possession?

idk, what metric are you using to evaluate that? i'd be curious to see how they compare to Caufield

 

[Mrb1p]

idk, what metric are you using to evaluate that? i'd be curious to see how they compare to Caufield

I have no idea of Coles metrics. I just see him make stupid ass mistakes every night. In the 35+ goalscorer, theres really only one goalscorer that compares in impact and that's Boeser. Theres Connor too with 34, but at the moment Cole hasn't shown the dynamism of of Connor.

I wouldn't want Boeser on this team at 8/ year. So it's pretty fair. I think Coles value is higher than Brocks at the same age, would the Canucks have been better off today had they traded him away in 2019? Hard to say. He does have a better contract than Cole.

Again, I loved the Cole of last year and prior. If that's him, if it's the Cole of this year that routinely hurts his team because of shot selection, poor possession, poor puck management and just overall sub-par defensive play, I'm not sure he's part of my ideal top 6.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I have no idea of Coles metrics. I just see him make stupid ass mistakes every night. In the 35+ goalscorer, theres really only one goalscorer that compares in impact and that's Boeser. Theres Connor too with 34, but at the moment Cole hasn't shown the dynamism of of Connor.

I wouldn't want Boeser on this team at 8/ year. So it's pretty fair. I think Coles value is higher than Brocks at the same age, would the Canucks have been better off today had they traded him away in 2019? Hard to say. He does have a better contract than Cole.

Again, I loved the Cole of last year and prior. If that's him, if it's the Cole of this year that routinely hurts his team because of shot selection, poor possession, poor puck management and just overall sub-par defensive play, I'm not sure he's part of my ideal top 6.

OK, but it'd be nice to see this take substantiated by some kind of data. maybe some other posters can chime in

 

[Mrb1p]

Why not just keep Caufield and add to the team if you're so convinced that he's not a fit with Suzuki and Slafkovsky? I don't think those 3 will or have to spend the rest of their careers together, if the Habs can find another top 6 winger (i'd be a BIG fan of trading for Martin Necas), they can interchange the top 6 wingers whenever they need to.

Then would he be a fit on the 2nd line?

Who's the last player of his kind to win a cup? Kessel? He was on a third line. Matter of fact, I'm not even sure I can think of another player in Coles mold that won a cup. Kessel was also a better player than Cole iMO.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Then would he be a fit on the 2nd line?

Who's the last player of his kind to win a cup? Kessel? He was on a third line. Matter of fact, I'm not even sure I can think of another player in Coles mold that won a cup. Kessel was also a better player than Cole iMO.

He already got to the final and he would have won a Cup if anyone but Tampa had been the opponent. He was probably not 100% ths year. i would discount this season. If he begins next season the way he played this season it is time to worry.

 

[417]

Then would he be a fit on the 2nd line?

He scores goals and will have what is an affordable contract.

I don’t see why not.

Who's the last player of his kind to win a cup? Kessel? He was on a third line. Matter of fact, I'm not even sure I can think of another player in Coles mold that won a cup. Kessel was also a better player than Cole iMO.

There haven't been a lot of player similar to Caufield, so I'm not sure that matters and I don't think because something hasn't been done before, it can't be done.

He's one of 12 forwards on the team, as long as he continues to do what makes him a good player, I'm not too worried about it personally.

 

[Mrb1p]

He scores goals and will have what is an affordable contract.

I don’t see why not.

There haven't been a lot of player similar to Caufield, so I'm not sure that matters and I don't think because something hasn't been done before, it can't be done.

He's one of 12 forwards on the team, as long as he continues to do what makes him a good player, I'm not too worried about it personally.

A goal scoring winger that doesn't drive the play, is a physical liability and defensively at best, neutral. There has been a bunch of those players. I'm not only talking about height, couldn't care less about this, he's not much shorter than say Point, but his overall.impact isn't close.

 

[417]

A goal scoring winger that doesn't drive the play, is a physical liability and defensively at best, neutral. There has been a bunch of those players. I'm not only talking about height, couldn't care less about this, he's not much shorter than say Point, but his overall. Impact isn't close.

A single player isn't going to determine whether or not a team wins a Stanley Cup.

I get what you're saying, but I think you're overplaying this a little.

Also think your definition of Caufield as not being a play driver is a bit subjective, IMO, a player who generates as much shots as he does, drives play. Additionally, you're not considering the improvements that he can make in his game.

As an example, and i'm not comparing the players, just comparing situations...the André Burakovsky who won the Cup with the Caps, is not the same Andrei Burakovsky who won the Cup a few years later in Colorado.

Things change, players evolve, the team will not look like it currently does when/if that times comes where they're a Stanley Cup champion.

Basically, if you flipped Cole Caufield's stats this year and he had 37 goals and 28 assists instead, the discussions about him would be a lot different.

 

[sampollock]

not sure why ones on here talk of CC getting traded.... other thing to discuss
like
who will go on the wings for Dach?

 

[Tabarouette]

The easy metrics you can find do show that he does drive the play alright, and his shot% is obviously way too low and blablabla.

I don't think this argument should be made against Caufield but it should be explored as what could trading Caufield right now, while his value is very high, bring to the team and also risk management (as in, do we believe his value will decrease, which it will if he has another sub 30 goal season next year)

Realistically trading Caufield + trading young Ds we have in surplus + signing good UFAs could land us players we need to accelerate the rebuild significantly, like the Rangers did eventho their example is near impossible to reproduce

But it could bite us in the ass too if he does pan out, but then does it matter if we get what we need anyway? We look foolish if we make bad trades, but that's always a given.

Really depends on the goal and the velocity we want to achieve here + the confidence we're willing to put in that guy

not sure why ones on here talk of CC getting traded.... other thing to discuss
like
who will go on the wings for Dach?

because it's worth exploring and we have 6 months of nothing ahead of us? If you watch baseball, we're still coasting on the idea that Vladdy Jr will be good because he was good that one time, but his value is just going down every year. That's part of managing a hockey team! Untouchables are stupid

 

[Tabarouette]

I also wanna mention that the idea that Dach is our #2 center should be in contention too. He looked pretty good *a long time ago*, I have my doubts that he can recover fully AND stay healthy

 

[larryb]

Cole caufeild
Justin Barron
Josh Anderson
Winnipeg 2024 first

To New Jersey for
Dawson Mercer
Simon memec

Adds a blue chip right defenseman friends with slaf
And a versatile center right winger
Gets rid of an onerous contract

 

[Sterling Archer]

A goal scoring winger that doesn't drive the play, is a physical liability and defensively at best, neutral. There has been a bunch of those players. I'm not only talking about height, couldn't care less about this, he's not much shorter than say Point, but his overall.impact isn't close.

Ok but how many 23 yo players average 0.4 goals per game (32 goal/season) 50 points/season are there in the NHL? Not many and he’s not even close to his potential.

 

[417]

The easy metrics you can find do show that he does drive the play alright, and his shot% is obviously way too low and blablabla.

I don't think this argument should be made against Caufield but it should be explored as what could trading Caufield right now, while his value is very high, bring to the team and also risk management (as in, do we believe his value will decrease, which it will if he has another sub 30 goal season next year)

Same could be said about Suzuki or Slafkovsky...that their value is highest now, so the Habs should expore would it could get to trade them.

Doesn't mean it makes a whole lot of sense either.

At root, I don't think anyone on this roster is untouchable, everyone has a price...but the cost that another team would have to pay right now for the Habs to even entertain trading Caufield isn't even worth discussing.

Also, not sure what you mean by "another" sub 30 goal season...this was Caufield's first full NHL campaign and ended up with 28 on 300+ shots.

Realistically trading Caufield + trading young Ds we have in surplus + signing good UFAs could land us players we need to accelerate the rebuild significantly, like the Rangers did eventho their example is near impossible to reproduce

But it could bite us in the ass too if he does pan out, but then does it matter if we get what we need anyway? We look foolish if we make bad trades, but that's always a given.

Really depends on the goal and the velocity we want to achieve here + the confidence we're willing to put in that guy

Why do they need to trade Caufield to facilitate this? They could do everything you posted above without having to do so.

Again, i'm not opposed to trading ANYONE on this roster, it just has to make sense...and really the only reason why any Habs fan is even considering trading Caufield right now is because he didn't score 35 + goals this season.

If you flip his assists and goals this year, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

because it's worth exploring and we have 6 months of nothing ahead of us? If you watch baseball, we're still coasting on the idea that Vladdy Jr will be good because he was good that one time, but his value is just going down every year. That's part of managing a hockey team! Untouchables are stupid

Agreed here, there are no such thing as untouchables...but a team would have to significantly overpay for the Habs to trade Caufield right now. The team is trying to built continuity, not play fantasy hockey.

 

[Dirby Kach]

I wonder about Barrett Hayton as a potential target.
23 years old, upcoming RFA - would fit Hughes pattern of acquiring young guys like this (dach, newhook). We have excess D and Salt Lake City appears to not have a lot going on for D.
just a thought.

 

[Benstheman]

1- This summer at the draft :

Armia + Win 1st

for

Kakko, with a 2 years, 3M$ per contract


2- I don't want to trade Caufield except for an upgrade at his position. So next summer (2025):

Caufield
Habs 2026 1st
Barron or Mailloux

for

Kaprizov with an 7 years extension at 12 M$ per that brings him to 36 years old. I know his 35 and 36 yo might be a risk at that salary but that should concide with the end of Habs contending window, so i don't care.

3- Same offseason, at the draft :

Matheson + worst of our 2025 1st (Habs, Calgary or Florida) + Harris

for

Rasmus Andersson with a 7 years extension at 7M$ per

Calgary can trade Matheson at the deadline for probably a 1st or just keep and extend him if they don't want to go full rebuild.

So our 2025-2026 contending lineup :

Slaf-Suzuki-Kaprizov
Demidov/Lindstrom-Dach-Roy/Newhook
Roy/Newhook-Beck-Kakko
Anderson (i know)-Evans-Gallagher

Guhle-Andersson
Hutson-Reinbacher
Xhekaj-Mailloux/Barron/Engstrom
Struble

Montembault
Primeau

About the contending thing, i don't really believe it for 2025-2026 season because there will be to many young/rookie players at importante position like Beck, Hutson, Reinbacher but this would be a f***ing good and talented roster with not many weaknesses. Would still be a year Habs start making alot of noise.

 

[CHarlie]

So if we are expecting Kent to pull a Dach, Newhook trade at this draft we need a team that has the same circumstances that made Newhook and Dach available......Any ideas?

 

[Dirby Kach]

1- This summer at the draft :

Caufield
Habs 2026 1st
Barron or Mailloux

Minnesota laughs you out of the room.
Counter proposal: Suzuki + Guhle + 2024 MTL 1st + 2024 WPG 1st
Kaprizov is 26 and has a 108 pt season under his belt. Why would Minnesota do this right now with 2 years left on his deal.

 

[Benstheman]

So if we are expecting Kent to pull a Dach, Newhook trade at this draft we need a team that has the same circumstances that made Newhook and Dach available......Any ideas?

If they go for a reclamation prospect, i think Kakko is a possible target.

Buit i think they start trageting players that are more known commodities. So i guess Necas fits the bill.

 

[Dirby Kach]

If they go for a reclamation prospect, i think Kakko is a possible target.

Buit i think they start trageting players that are more known commodities. So i guess Necas fits the bill.

does anyone see CAR dealing with MTL?
I mean MB is gone - but i'm still so grouchy about the 2006 playoff series that i've deleted them from my phone.

 

[Benstheman]

Minnesota laughs you out of the room.
Counter proposal: Suzuki + Guhle + 2024 MTL 1st + 2024 WPG 1st
Kaprizov is 26 and has a 108 pt season under his belt. Why would Minnesota do this right now with 2 years left on his deal.

Funny how you copy/paste partial informations that indeed make the thing making no sense at all.

That's not this summer. It's in 2025 when Kaprizov can be extended to a new contract. And it's a scenario that has been discussed on this very thread. It's based on the premiss that Minnesota don't want to give the big contract Kaprizov wants.

 

[sampollock]

So if we are expecting Kent to pull a Dach, Newhook trade at this draft we need a team that has the same circumstances that made Newhook and Dach available......Any ideas?

I said teams that don't have a 1st rounder or like a TB that need picks bad

 

[CHarlie]

If they could pry Jarvis out of Carolina that would be sweet

 

[Benstheman]

does anyone see CAR dealing with MTL?
I mean MB is gone - but i'm still so grouchy about the 2006 playoff series that i've deleted them from my phone.

Man. That's a long time ago.

If they could pry Jarvis out of Carolina that would be sweet

Wouldn't count on it to be honest. He is delivering big time at a low salary.