Confirmed with Link: Trade! Petersen & Walker & Grans and a 2024 2nd to Flyers : Kings 30% retention on Provorov and get Connauton and Hodgson

[GoldenBearHockey]

You're totally right. Completely misremembered that incident. Shaw took an ugly run at a King when he was with Florida ... must have mixed them up. Still don't like the guy!

Way off topic now, ignore me, thanks!

Umm...Shaw never played for Florida lol Chicago or Montreal

 

[The Pale King]

Umm...Shaw never played for Florida lol Chicago or Montreal

Oooof. I'm not going to edit my comment.
I swear I watch hockey sometimes.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oooof. I'm not going to edit my comment.
I swear I watch hockey sometimes.

You must have him mixed up with Sean Bergenheim.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

It's hilarious how people are staunchly defending Blake and unironically criticizing DL's moves while accusing Blake critics of not criticizing DL. While also accusing people of being irrational for talking about DL's choices from 7-8 years ago.

I'm just adding, I was critical of the developmental system before Blake. It's why I've staunchly opposed bland and K17 in their push to trade Kopitar. So my criticism has spanned multiple regimes and Blake has given no indication he's fixing issues from his side, either.

But we also get accused of bitching about everything.

Whenever Blake moves on (whether via quitting or firing), I wonder if these same people will suddenly start criticizing him when he's no longer the current regime.

I guess it's hilarious if you're King'sJester.
I'm not staunchly defending Blake. I was critical of signing Athanisiou a second contract. And ludicrous to give him 2.7. That they should have instead I was critical in that they should have promoted someone from the Reign, instead. I was critical of a second contract for Edler. That it took Toby's spot...and if they believed Toby needed to go to the AHL, then sign someone more useful than a 37 yr old Edler, that lost a step after his ankle break. Going back to Gaborik for Phaneuf, I didn't like that and there could have been a better exit plan. And other moves over the 6 years.

I was not accusing anyone about the last 3 years of Lombardi's work....the Bishop deal, Sekera deal and Lucic deal were all worse than any deal Blake has made. The 2015 draft, Hammond? and Mayor's Manor had Barzal and Kyle Connor as the targets. They both have sources, so who knows...someone should ask Yannetti. Dean didn;t like college players and somehow thought getting Lucic 1 year, instead of Barzal or Connor. Barzal is the #2 center the Kings have needed since Carter was fading fast. Connor was the LW Kopitar needed. #13 overall + Jones was overpayment, anyway. If the Kings had either Barzal or Connor, they probably never miss the playoffs, since 2018. Dean was trying to compete for Cups and yet somehow put together the worst roster since the year he took over, when he came in and added Nagy, Calder, Stuart, Handzus..Cloutier

DL's choices from the Gaborik deal, onward is irrational to bring up? 3 years of not adding a quality player and these were his roster, in 16-17:
Shore, Dowd, Setoguchi, Andreoff, Gravel, Ladue, Dwight King and Jordan Nolan regressing to AHL level play again. Blake inherited crap. DL'S last 3 years reveresed the ship. Those 3 years, 7-8 years ago, affected the next 3-5 years.

 

[FeartheFur]

That’s pretty accurate.

 

[King'sPawn]

I guess it's hilarious if you're King'sJester.
I'm not staunchly defending Blake. I was critical of signing Athanisiou a second contract. And ludicrous to give him 2.7. That they should have instead I was critical in that they should have promoted someone from the Reign, instead. I was critical of a second contract for Edler. That it took Toby's spot...and if they believed Toby needed to go to the AHL, then sign someone more useful than a 37 yr old Edler, that lost a step after his ankle break. Going back to Gaborik for Phaneuf, I didn't like that and there could have been a better exit plan. And other moves over the 6 years.

I was not accusing anyone about the last 3 years of Lombardi's work....the Bishop deal, Sekera deal and Lucic deal were all worse than any deal Blake has made. The 2015 draft, Hammond? and Mayor's Manor had Barzal and Kyle Connor as the targets. They both have sources, so who knows...someone should ask Yannetti. Dean didn;t like college players and somehow thought getting Lucic 1 year, instead of Barzal or Connor. Barzal is the #2 center the Kings have needed since Carter was fading fast. Connor was the LW Kopitar needed. #13 overall + Jones was overpayment, anyway. If the Kings had either Barzal or Connor, they probably never miss the playoffs, since 2018. Dean was trying to compete for Cups and yet somehow put together the worst roster since the year he took over, when he came in and added Nagy, Calder, Stuart, Handzus..Cloutier

DL's choices from the Gaborik deal, onward is irrational to bring up? 3 years of not adding a quality player and these were his roster, in 16-17:
Shore, Dowd, Setoguchi, Andreoff, Gravel, Ladue, Dwight King and Jordan Nolan regressing to AHL level play again. Blake inherited crap. DL'S last 3 years reveresed the ship. Those 3 years, 7-8 years ago, affected the next 3-5 years.

Cool. Did I say something where you felt accused?

 

[The Pale King]

You must have him mixed up with Sean Bergenheim.

Is it groundhog day? Wtfff

Next you're going to tell me there's a team in Las Vegas or something absurd.

 

[kilowatt]

But you aren't winning anyway.

That's the whole point.

You don’t have to tell me twice. I’ve been criticizing TOI distributions since Todd was hired!

 

[Statto]

I guess it's hilarious if you're King'sJester.
I'm not staunchly defending Blake. I was critical of signing Athanisiou a second contract. And ludicrous to give him 2.7. That they should have instead I was critical in that they should have promoted someone from the Reign, instead. I was critical of a second contract for Edler. That it took Toby's spot...and if they believed Toby needed to go to the AHL, then sign someone more useful than a 37 yr old Edler, that lost a step after his ankle break. Going back to Gaborik for Phaneuf, I didn't like that and there could have been a better exit plan. And other moves over the 6 years.

I was not accusing anyone about the last 3 years of Lombardi's work....the Bishop deal, Sekera deal and Lucic deal were all worse than any deal Blake has made. The 2015 draft, Hammond? and Mayor's Manor had Barzal and Kyle Connor as the targets. They both have sources, so who knows...someone should ask Yannetti. Dean didn;t like college players and somehow thought getting Lucic 1 year, instead of Barzal or Connor. Barzal is the #2 center the Kings have needed since Carter was fading fast. Connor was the LW Kopitar needed. #13 overall + Jones was overpayment, anyway. If the Kings had either Barzal or Connor, they probably never miss the playoffs, since 2018. Dean was trying to compete for Cups and yet somehow put together the worst roster since the year he took over, when he came in and added Nagy, Calder, Stuart, Handzus..Cloutier

DL's choices from the Gaborik deal, onward is irrational to bring up? 3 years of not adding a quality player and these were his roster, in 16-17:
Shore, Dowd, Setoguchi, Andreoff, Gravel, Ladue, Dwight King and Jordan Nolan regressing to AHL level play again. Blake inherited crap. DL'S last 3 years reveresed the ship. Those 3 years, 7-8 years ago, affected the next 3-5 years.

The AA signing is probably his worst move for me, by that I mean the second contract. It was a missed opportunity to develop younger players who frankly could easily have given more than him. In terms of his game, AA was more of a liability than Durzi and no way consistent enough offensively for it to be worth it. It was no different during his first contract so I don’t see why anyone expected it to change.

I understood the need for re-signing Edler purely for a physicality standpoint, but that assumes that he’d fully recovered from his leg, which obviously wasn’t the case. Had he been the same player as prior to that injury it would’ve been an okay deal but he wasn’t up to a sufficient level. However, that is where they should’ve sat him as the seventh defenceman played Toby. Not using Toby in the playoffs was a big mistake given that at least he has some upside, and Edler clearly wasn’t playing well against the Oilers.

 

[Herby]

To me the most damaging moves almost all revolve around youth.

AA is a nothing burger, every team has a couple of overpaid vets, even CP kind of falls into that, although at an extreme end as a $5m AHL player.

You can handle these type of mistakes much easier than you can handle getting historically poor ROI on high draft picks.

I can find someone to take Walker, CP etc, it may cost me a little capital or a struggling prospect, as this deal did. But I can’t just go out and get a Stuetzle, Zegras, Cozens, Caufield, Boldy or Seider. The cost would be enormous.

 

[tomd]

To me the most damaging moves almost all revolve around youth.

AA is a nothing burger, every team has a couple of overpaid vets, even CP kind of falls into that, although at an extreme end as a $5m AHL player.

You can handle these type of mistakes much easier than you can handle getting historically poor ROI on high draft picks.

I can find someone to take Walker, CP etc, it may cost me a little capital or a struggling prospect, as this deal did. But I can’t just go out and get a Stuetzle, Zegras, Cozens, Caufield, Boldy or Seider. The cost would be enormous.

Yes, for better or worse, the drafts of 2019 and 2020 will have ramifications far into the future for this franchise.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Cool. Did I say something where you felt accused?

No. But your post was directed at me. To say that Deans last 3 years are basically irrelevant to where the Kings are now...is untrue. All of Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Martinez were under 30 and the best Dean could do, was surround them with AHL players? If he had kept doing work at 50% of what he did the first few years, should have added some talent, and his best effort was reaching for a retired Setoguchi? if he was able to add even 2 good pieces, they could have been at least a playoff team and anything can happen in the playoffs. What Blake inherited was as bad or worse, then when Dean took over.

At least the Kings are a competive team now and winning. The current state 'failure's' to get past round one, are somewhat equally : Blake, the coaching, development team, drafting. None of them get an F. But noine of them are getting A marks, either. Injuries of the following youth have not helped and been a hindrance.: Turcotte, Vilardi, Byfield, Thomas. Then in the playoffs last 2 years: 2022: Doughty, Arvidsson. 2023: Fiala, Vilardi, and pretty much Anderson. If they had been healthy and playing, could have been a different outcome.

 

[Schrute farms]

How much of the “winning” classification for the Kings the past two seasons is attributed to the fact that both sharks & Ducks have blatantly tanked? Not to
Mention Arizona; and even Vancouver to boot.

What would the outlook/mindset and results be the past two seasons if a few of those teams were good (or even just decent) and actively attempting to make the playoffs? Interesting to think about imo.

 

[Statto]

At the time, the logic was that Richards could pull his personal life together and be a solid top nine special teams center.

Looking back, though, it should’ve been obvious he had nothing left. He was barely a #4C in 2014. By 2015 he was barely an NHL player.

Just bad analysis all around by Lombardi (and me).

I was with you. IIRC I think DL said he believed and/or understood the issues were under control and he was back on track. IF that had been the case it‘d been a ver different story but it was clearly a terrible error.

 

[Statto]

How much of the “winning” classification for the Kings the past two seasons is attributed to the fact that both sharks & Ducks have blatantly tanked? Not to
Mention Arizona; and even Vancouver to boot.

What would the outlook/mindset and results be the past two seasons if a few of those teams were good (or even just decent) and actively attempting to make the playoffs? Interesting to think about imo.

Some but that applies across the board. Never are all 32 teams in the same positions in terms of building. There’s always going to be teams in each division that are rebuilding, on the bubble and contending. It’s rare not to have at least one team in each division rebuilding although it does happen.

 

[King'sPawn]

No. But your post was directed at me. To say that Deans last 3 years are basically irrelevant to where the Kings are now...is untrue. All of Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Martinez were under 30 and the best Dean could do, was surround them with AHL players? If he had kept doing work at 50% of what he did the first few years, should have added some talent, and his best effort was reaching for a retired Setoguchi? if he was able to add even 2 good pieces, they could have been at least a playoff team and anything can happen in the playoffs. What Blake inherited was as bad or worse, then when Dean took over.

At least the Kings are a competive team now and winning. The current state 'failure's' to get past round one, are somewhat equally : Blake, the coaching, development team, drafting. None of them get an F. But noine of them are getting A marks, either. Injuries of the following youth have not helped and been a hindrance.: Turcotte, Vilardi, Byfield, Thomas. Then in the playoffs last 2 years: 2022: Doughty, Arvidsson. 2023: Fiala, Vilardi, and pretty much Anderson. If they had been healthy and playing, could have been a different outcome.

I was responding to RJ who was responding to someone else. Nothing was intended to be "directed at you".

There's nothing wrong with criticizing DL's moves. But there are a contingent of people handwaving DL's success or imply that he was just lucky. Those same people are propping up Blake like he's a superior GM despite accomplishing near nothing in the postseason.

Though now after reading your post, yes, your hypocrisy should be called out too. You're bemoaning DL's trades and moves in his final 3 years to point out what a terrible team Blake inherited (even though he inherited a core of cup winners). But then you gloss over the past two years of Blake's failures with "oh, if only this didn't happen, or the Kings were healthy, things would be different."

So, yeah, the staunch defense of Blake while pretending the last 3 years of DL's tenure undoes everything Lombardi accomplished that Blake has not, is pretty f***ing funny, and thank you for the laugh.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Yeah, the constant compulsion to denigrate Lombardi’s regime while praising Blake’s is utterly bizarre to me.

Obviously we would look at the Lombardi years differently if he never won. Just like we would look at the Blake years differently right now if, oh I don’t know, the Kings win just a single playoff series.

Sports is a results driven business. Winning can, and should, completely change the way people view things.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

How much of the “winning” classification for the Kings the past two seasons is attributed to the fact that both sharks & Ducks have blatantly tanked? Not to
Mention Arizona; and even Vancouver to boot.

What would the outlook/mindset and results be the past two seasons if a few of those teams were good (or even just decent) and actively attempting to make the playoffs? Interesting to think about imo.

Almost none....EVERY division had 2-3 doormats.....so what you can say about LA winning, you can say about BOS and TOR winning

 

[SettlementRichie10]

No. But your post was directed at me. To say that Deans last 3 years are basically irrelevant to where the Kings are now...is untrue. All of Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Martinez were under 30 and the best Dean could do, was surround them with AHL players? If he had kept doing work at 50% of what he did the first few years, should have added some talent, and his best effort was reaching for a retired Setoguchi? if he was able to add even 2 good pieces, they could have been at least a playoff team and anything can happen in the playoffs. What Blake inherited was as bad or worse, then when Dean took over.

At least the Kings are a competive team now and winning. The current state 'failure's' to get past round one, are somewhat equally : Blake, the coaching, development team, drafting. None of them get an F. But noine of them are getting A marks, either. Injuries of the following youth have not helped and been a hindrance.: Turcotte, Vilardi, Byfield, Thomas. Then in the playoffs last 2 years: 2022: Doughty, Arvidsson. 2023: Fiala, Vilardi, and pretty much Anderson. If they had been healthy and playing, could have been a different outcome.

“If only we change the entire context around Dean’s last three years, and play what if with Blake’s last three years, you’ll see how much better Blake has been.”

Deranged.

 

[kingsfan28]

How much of the “winning” classification for the Kings the past two seasons is attributed to the fact that both sharks & Ducks have blatantly tanked? Not to
Mention Arizona; and even Vancouver to boot.

What would the outlook/mindset and results be the past two seasons if a few of those teams were good (or even just decent) and actively attempting to make the playoffs? Interesting to think about imo.

It's a good point, but you still need to the beat the teams in your division to have success, no matter what their record is. Wasn't this the 1st winning record against the pac division in years? Vancouver owned us for like 4 seasons or something like that, same with the Sharks.